JJr Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward Trans > filter > thermostat (aftermarket) > ATF cooler (aftermarket) > Trans. Notice nowhere on there is the radiator hookup. Would be real cool to group all these things near the trans, would make for a potentially more simple plumbing setup. Any additional thought's on this? Consensus at this point is to leave the radiator in the loop trans> thermo> cooler> radiator>trans? Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwm5094 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think it's rather pointless to go from the cooler to the rad then to the trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 ^ I'm of the same opinion. Better post-radiator IME. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted January 13, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2013 Adding the external cooler "pre-radiator" could make sense if you dont have a fluid thermostat. The theory was that running the fluid through the radiator as the last step would "normalize" the temp to that of the engine. If it's too cool the radiator will warm it up, if it's still too hot the radiator will cool it further. If you have a thermostat I think the opposite is ideal. Run it through the radiator and then allow the thermostat to control whether the fluid goes back to the case or passes through the external cooler. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Adding the external cooler "pre-radiator" could make sense if you dont have a fluid thermostat. The theory was that running the fluid through the radiator as the last step would "normalize" the temp to that of the engine. If it's too cool the radiator will warm it up, if it's still too hot the radiator will cool it further. If you have a thermostat I think the opposite is ideal. Run it through the radiator and then allow the thermostat to control whether the fluid goes back to the case or passes through the external cooler. Thx that makes sense. Looks like I need to decide if I need a thermostat or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Consensus is generally not very useful, as it's a bunch of people doing what a bunch of other people are doing due to what other people are doing. Somewhere in the line, someone knows or has installed a better/best solution, and he is the one to copy, regardless of whether the consensus likes it. Adding the external cooler "pre-radiator" could make sense if you dont have a fluid thermostat. The theory was that running the fluid through the radiator as the last step would "normalize" the temp to that of the engine. If it's too cool the radiator will warm it up, if it's still too hot the radiator will cool it further. If you have a thermostat I think the opposite is ideal. Run it through the radiator and then allow the thermostat to control whether the fluid goes back to the case or passes through the external cooler. This makes the most sense, for now. The trouble is that most people don't have a thermostat, and some don't have the motivation to make one fit. More data would perhaps help conclude that the radiator does not need to be in the loop at all, but that has not been concluded thoroughly. In any event, the radiator is the worst place to exchange ATF heat with coolant, since it can get so cold on long highway runs. Better than nothing, which is why it's there. Mind you this car was designed for soccer moms. If there was such thing as a Group N STi 5EAT, it would hopefully not just be cooled the way it is stock USDM. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well i took the intercooler off to clean it and had a good look at the trans...saw a couple of plugs 2 breather tube and 2 thick hoses going to the front where the filter is located at..so im gonna say no..... Car looks the same as 05 onwards USDM only shorter front and back bumpers being a JDM GTB...I asked subaru here where is the heat exchanger on a legacy and they said "should be cooled by the radiator"..showed them a similar car in the used lot..5 mins of looking he said some dont need to cool ATF... Anyway glad the cooler is in..thanks to all the info on this thread...heres a pic of the car.. [ATTACH]138683[/ATTACH] ClimberD,so the JDM GTB had no heat exchanger meaning no trans cooling prior to the addition of a aftermarket cooler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 ClimberD,so the JDM GTB had no heat exchanger meaning no trans cooling prior to the addition of a aftermarket cooler? You know nearly as much as I know. Basically, I have heard now from a couple 5eat owners around the world saying they don't have an ATF line going into their radiator. I don't know much more for certain (years, alternative cooling). I don't have an international parts database to dig through. I looked at EDM parts list, and to that extent it looked the same (I did not look exhaustively). This is the kind of thing that would require Unclemat levels of digging and asking to know with absolutely certainty, and I don't have the time to commit to it right now. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I understand, just thought you might know. Thx for all the help and info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I too would like to see pics of the JDM ATF-to-coolant heat exchanger that is not in the radiator. Just for curiosity sake. I have heard about it twice now, and I have also heard of a couple other manufacturers going this route instead of an integrated radiator heat exchanger. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZLegacyGTB Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 From what i know there isnt such a thing from the factory..maybe aftermarket or STI parts.. Heres some photos of my JDM. Its the filter areas where JDMs splits from USDMs..no extra 2 pipes going down to the radiator. Also a photo of a 5EAT the inlet and outlet on the bottom left hand corner goes straight into 2 metal pipes which go to the filter and back. no other outlets. Just wonder if there was a heat exchanger why would they not mount it at the front??? I saw temps of 90c with normal driving..nothing too crazy..after the cooler seeing 83c after a couple of pulls..plus the 3rd gear clunk i used to get every couple of days hasnt occurred so far..then again the transmission fluid may have been on the full mark..its now riding just below it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Can you do a visual tracing of the ATF lines between the trans and windshield washer fluid reservoir, to confirm? Would be much appreciated [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoukiS14 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Bummer about the apparent lack of a cooler. Put something in. High temps kill automatics. I run a Hayden 678, 11"x9.5"x.75". Rated to 19,000 GVWR. About the size of a small/medium motorhome. That's it. No radiator cooler with the Mishimoto radiator upgrade.The cooler is getting blown out before the new built trans goes in. Just in case. This is getting installed at the same time: http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/13011/10002/-1. It's been getting pretty chilly here in Albuquerque. Although it seems most modern fluids are rated to well below zero, and I doubt it's dipped below zero here yet. Just want to cover the over-cooling base. BTW, the trans in this car was running a nice 20G setup for about 60,000 miles before it quit. Started slipping 4th/5th about 15,000 miles ago. Mysteriously, 4th firmed up (hi/low pack) about 5,000 miles ago, while 5th kept slipping (front brake) until its demise. Had a BG trans flush, with their ATF, just after it started slipping. With the additive pre-flush. Apparently all that adds up to a rebuild. I probably won't do that again unless I intend to rebuild it. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SATSFYD Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 ^ My understanding is your not suppose to "Flush" transmissions... That might have caused your problem. **There are two types of people in the world, those who build horsepower and those who buy it. Which one are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 ^ My understanding is your not suppose to "Flush" transmissions... That might have caused your problem. Always depends how the flush is done. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoukiS14 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Well, the problems were there before the flush. It simply didn't improve things, and might well have hastened it. It was kind of a last ditch effort anyhow. That thing was on the downward slope already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZLegacyGTB Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Well heres a couple of pictures Red line is metal piping Yellow is the rubber tubes that mate the transmission in/outlet to the pipes. I'll have a better look in a week or two when i have the car up for a brake fluid change and wheel rotation.. I had a transmission flush done 2 months ago..however i only recommend a flush if it was done routinely from the factory. This car came from japan with service records of atf flush at 15,000kms, 30,000 kms and then at 60,000...sadly the vf38 died off 2 weeks after i got it...on a good note..car came with mechanical insurance so i had a TD04HLA conversion for $400.00:) Anyways hope the pics answer the heat exchanger mystery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 [ATTACH]139925[/ATTACH] The last picture, the thing with fins on it near the middle of the picture, behind the axle, below the ATF hoses... what is that... [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoukiS14 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Looks like a stacked plate water/oil heat exchanger, similar to the one for the engine oil. Looks like there is a cooler after all. There's definitely nothing like that on the USDM cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZLegacyGTB Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yep looks like thats it. Jacked the car up and had a look. Sequence is Trans ---> Filter---> Heat exchanger---> Trans. or Trans--> Heat exchanger--> Filter---> Trans Anyway i tapped into the filter outlet line for my cooler since it was at the front of the car. Red line bents into the heat exchanger, blue line back into the trans.. Glad the mystery is solved. Thanks everyone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tLewis7 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Can you tell if a thermostat somehow in the loop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks for photographing it for us. Nice bolt-on JDM OEM solution. Now we just need a part number / blowup comparison. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Seems like an odd location for the cooler unless it works similarly to our engine oil cooler where coolant circulates in it. Which then makes me think that you could probably "engineer" a transmission oil cooler using one of the stock engine oil coolers and some hose/tees, and just keep your radiator for cooling coolant. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZLegacyGTB Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I guess there is a thermostat in loop as i could see atf temps using FreeSSM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoukiS14 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I guess there is a thermostat in loop as i could see atf temps using FreeSSM.. That would just be one of the two temp sensors in the transmission. A thermostat in this case would regulate flow of ATF to the cooler or bypassing it. It's unlikely that there's one installed from the factory. Here's the thermostat I'm putting in. It's the newer style Derale 13011. Shiny, shiny! BTW, if anyone purchases one of these, clean it out first. The fittings had plenty of tiny aluminum swarf bits from machining. The thermostat body itself seemed pretty clean at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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