StringFellow Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Well, I have to add my imput to this ever extending thread. I have owned manual transmissions since I started driving (4 cars total) and I finally switched over to an auto in my Outback XT (5th car) for several reasons: 1. Heading off road, an auto is better at handling very rough terrain. With a manual you end up riding the clutch too much. With an auto you can creap over rough terrain at a much slower/safer speed. This might not be a valid argument with a LGT. 2. Stop and go traffic. 10 miles each way to work in stop and go traffic, it isn't worth the rowing of gears and wear and tear on the clutch. I did it for many years with a manual, but the auto makes the stop and go drive a lot more relaxing. 3. Other drivers. If in an emergency (sick, etc.) you need someone else to drive your car, an auto makes it easier for someone. True, someone can be forced to drive a manual when they don't have experience, but think grinding of gears, etc. But, it is funny reading the auto vs manual threads like this one. Most people fit into one or the other, not both (and you can't convience most people to switch). If I had a car that wasn't going off road or sitting in traffic, I would switch back to a manual in a heartbeat! It is also funny reading the posts comparing the 0-60 times for an auto and manual. Putting aside a person's preference, when the hell do you really need that .5 or 1 second difference in most real world driving? It just comes down to bragging rights if you ask me. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 A one second difference to 60 feels a whole heck of a lot different from behind the wheel. As far as the orginal poster goes, nothing short of a V8 or maybe a large V6 and/or supercharged will give you the same feeling of instapower from 1500RPM like your current car. -B -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAHAWK Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think you might have better luck going to the quad city area. I live in the Quad Cities. As of 2 weeks ago, lujacks had a LGT MT they have been using as their demo car. They also had a silver GT Auto. Overall, not much to choose from at Lujack's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I've been in abq less than a year, moving from NY. I've driven extensively across the NE, including NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, etc etc, grew up in southern PA. Lived 3 yrs in the Detroit area, and worked downtown every day. I've never had any reason to dislike my manuals, even in big city rush hour traffic. I love to drive, and for me, it's not a car if it has an auto . Not trying to convert anyone, just explaining how I feel. Remember, I own a miata. There are large cities in NM? ABQ is ok, come up the NE and drive in some of these cities and you will see why a lot of us prefer AT. If I lived in a less densely populated area I probably would have bought a MT, but not worth it here. The city I live in has 3x more people/mi^2 than ABQ. To make this on-topic, the OP should be driving cars they intend on buying. What is the point of test driving a 2.5i AT, most people would know ahead of time they would be disappointed. .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripod Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Lets avoid the wars now, deep inside people know the facts "East side is dee best, no West side is dee best" Yeah you are right to an extent. I think it's too late to "avoid" the wars. Whenever a manual guys speaks the truth about the difference in performance between the auto and manual...the auto guys get their panties in a wad. The ONLY way for them to REALLY know the truth is: 1. for the auto guys to drive a manual LGT 2. Have a meet up at the track (both drag and curvy) and show them first hand. It won't matter in about 5 years anyhow. By then pretty much EVERY manufacturer will copy VW/Audi and their amazing DSG tranny. And with it...you get the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 Wow! Thanks for all the great replies guys! To the guy that said I was dogging on the LGT; not really...it's just, it wasnt what I had expected. It was a quick car, handled great, smooth shifting; I mean, maybe the 0-60 time is as fast as my GTP, but it just doesnt "feel" like it; maybe it's so refined that it just goes without all the screaming, tire peeling, and TQ steer. I really really had my hopes set on driving a MT, and was just simply let down by the auto's lack of any low end power. Being the dealer guy was with me, and my gf in the car, I'm sure that extra weight hurts it considerably. I also didnt "roll the gas", and i didnt brake torque at all. Just hit the gas off the line. (remember, car was broken in with 5000+ miles) Really, the LGT is the only "good" choice i'm looking for. Here is my 3 ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENTS... #1. AWD or 4WD (so no neon's or crap) #2. Manual Transmission #3. Quick and Nimble; at least a 15.0 or high 14's car stock. ...and really, there arent many cars that can claim that. G35 AWD? Nope; auto only. Ford 500? Plu-leeease. A Truck? None that are fast or affordable... Really, I guess it all comes down to if the manual transmission peps the car up. Many here are saying it's night and day difference...that's what I'm really hoping to find out. It was, by far my biggest complaint. I need a little more "punch", and that's what I hope to get. Other than that, I liked the car. Sexy. Refined. Fit+Finish, amazing. And I wont "talk myself into" buying the car if it's not for me; if the MT adds what I think it will, I'll be happy. Avishar: I did drive the GT turbo on the 2nd test drive... vbmenu_register("postmenu_256734", true); I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I live in the Quad Cities. As of 2 weeks ago, lujacks had a LGT MT they have been using as their demo car. They also had a silver GT Auto. Overall, not much to choose from at Lujack's. Sounds like Iowa is just a black hole, in terms of Legacys. not much to speak of. No QC, No DSM, No Waterloo, Probaby none in Iowa City or Cedar Rapids, or Sioux City, either. I am not sure about Omaha at the moment. Just a couple of ragged demos. BTW, complements on your motorcycle. SV650S is very nice. I have a Honda Hawk GT, (same sort of V-twin sporty non-faired bike) and although I love it to death, I have been thinking of getting an SV, Duc Monster, or Triumph Speed Triple, for a bit bigger size, and much bigger power. Want to get a Legacy GT first, though!!! /Sorry, back on topic. Hope to hear from Hogmeat. (Edit: I guess we just did... while I was writing this.) I am not feeling too bad about going on topic, I am not sure this thread was supposed to get THAT much into the war of the transmissions, more about venting about lack of stock, and frustration with a mediocre test drive. I hope another test drive would be better, especially in a 5MT, if that is what he truly wants. I am with you, though Hogmeat. As an Iowa resident, and dealing with winter here (and anywhere as far north) AWD/4WD is a great thing. I would consider a RWD car with snow tires, LSD, and good weight distribution, but that still wouldn't be as useable as 4 driven wheels, and would be less stable on snow/ice. 5MT, AWD* (*-non FWD haldex based), and decent power and handling, at 32k or less. Yeah, that is a tough one. Take out trucks and SUVs, and you are pretty much limited to the Legacy/OB or WRX. Now limited to WRX or Legacy SEDAN or OBXT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 Oh, IWSS, you guessed right. Marshalltown. Impressive!! I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 I am not feeling too bad about going on topic, I am not sure this thread was supposed to get THAT much into the war of the transmissions, more about venting about lack of stock, and frustration with a mediocre test drive. I hope another test drive would be better, especially in a 5MT, if that is what he truly wants. Couldn't of said it better myself. I think many autos are OK, but an auto in this car? Just left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The auto in my GTP? oh baby.... So no, it's not a transmission war at all.... It's just i was so disappointed hoping to drive this, but wasnt able to, and being left with a demo car that I hope is not representative of what I'm looking at. I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 A 60-70 mile triangulation between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Des Moines is pretty easy! Now you know why I don't particularly want to spend 2k on a NAV system... I am in the same boat. I want a 5MT GT, Auto may be good, but no thanks for me. Good or Bad, I am not in the market to buy for a little while yet, so lack of stock at the moment isn't impacting my choice as much as yours, if you are planning to buy soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 And I wont "talk myself into" buying the car if it's not for me; if the MT adds what I think it will, I'll be happy. Good for you. On my first encounter with the dealer, they also did not have the car I was looking for. I refused to test drive anything but the 5MT Turbo, and so they let me take out a Wagon and rip on it to get the feel of what I wanted, even though I told them I would only buy the 5MT Sedan. I eventually ended up buying from them, so it worked out great for everyone (except, I guess the guy who ended up buying the 5MT GT Wagon) Also this quote... (so no neon's or crap) ...shows that you have your priorities straight! -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAHAWK Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Sounds like Iowa is just a black hole, in terms of Legacys. not much to speak of. No QC, No DSM, No Waterloo, Probaby none in Iowa City or Cedar Rapids, or Sioux City, either. I am not sure about Omaha at the moment. Just a couple of ragged demos. Love it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlabs Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Just another post to add to this pile-on When I first test drove the Legacy, the dealership I went to let me test drive both a manual GT and an auto GT. This was coming from my previous car experience, driving an Audi TT manual. Night and day difference. I couldn't get used to the auto "manumatic/tiptronic/whatever-it's-called". I'm just too stuck on my manuals. But that's just me. All I'm saying is, if you're used to driving a manual and then you're testdriving an automatic, doesn't matter pretty much what car you test drive, it's going to be a vastly huge different experience. So whatever you do, do test drive a manual, since that's what you're most familar and/or comfortable with. -=- Livin life at 140 BPM -=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richip Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Been driving manuals all my 16 years of driving. I don't do a lot of hard driving so I'm glad I purchased the 5EAT. It's sporty enough for my needs and I'm hoping to tweak it a bit more. Being the techie that I am, I have been fixated with CVTs for some time now. If there was a high-performance, programmable CVT out there for the Subaru, I'd jump on it in a flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magowin Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I'm sure a auto Legacy will beat a 98 Grand Prix GTP easy. My friend had a 2000 GTP and I always beat him with my 2000 Celica GTS and the Legacy will run circles around that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Here is my 3 ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENTS... #1. AWD or 4WD (so no neon's or crap) #2. Manual Transmission #3. Quick and Nimble; at least a 15.0 or high 14's car stock. With those requirements (especially #1), you don't have a lot of choices... I would check out some of the Audi's, if I were you. Maybe some VW's (Passat) too. But those won't measure up to the performance of the LGT, unless you have the $$ for the new S4. Also, check out the new WRX if it's not too small for your needs. They get the 2.5 for 2006 model year. A stock LGT manual should run low 14's no problem and maybe even touch high 13's. Definitely faster than a stock GTP. ' Have you tried out an EVO yet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Hey, I didn't read this whole thread but I test drove a LGT auto as well and also found it slower than my old E36 M3 convertible which was also an automatic. Only thing I could think of was that it only had 14 miles on it so the engine wasn't broken in properly yet, it was AWD and also it took longer than I expected for the turbos to kick in (again, probably from the car being so new). I think I need to test out one with 1500+ miles on it and also test out the 5MT's too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I'm sure a auto Legacy will beat a 98 Grand Prix GTP easy. My friend had a 2000 GTP and I always beat him with my 2000 Celica GTS and the Legacy will run circles around that thing. Your friend must not have had a supercharged Grand Prix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 With those requirements (especially #1), you don't have a lot of choices... I would check out some of the Audi's, if I were you. Maybe some VW's (Passat) too. But those won't measure up to the performance of the LGT, unless you have the $$ for the new S4. Also, check out the new WRX if it's not too small for your needs. They get the 2.5 for 2006 model year. A stock LGT manual should run low 14's no problem and maybe even touch high 13's. Definitely faster than a stock GTP. ' Have you tried out an EVO yet?? Yah, I know...there arent alot of AWD cars. if anyone is bored, and knows alot of info... what cars are out there that are $30,000 tops, and AWD? I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Yah, I know...there arent alot of AWD cars. if anyone is bored, and knows alot of info... what cars are out there that are $30,000 tops, and AWD? Slightly used STi?? Also don't forget to try the new MS6 before you buy anything. Should be out in a month or so. Always pays to shop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Slightly used STi?? Also don't forget to try the new MS6 before you buy anything. Should be out in a month or so. Always pays to shop around. What's an MS6? Google doesnt really tell me anything... I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuzaxeman Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Ok, I finally got to test drive a Legacy GT...but let me tell you, what a horrible experience with the dealer. ugh. So I'm looking for a LGT Limited 5spd manual. First, I walk in. He sits us down and starts to talk financing even before I even to to lay eyes on the car! WTF!? Then, even though the website says they have several 2005/2006 GT's (with 2 manuals) in stock, what a surprise...there are NONE. I'm stuck driving a non-turbo version, with zero options....and even worse, an auto. What a terribly unexciting car. I mean, my g/f's civic has more pep... So, we take it on an extended drive...when we get back, there is magically a GT sitting on the lot. hmmmm? anyways we get to drive that... Well, it's still an auto...but it has everything else i'm looking for. I still found the car to be somewhat "less-than-exhilarating"...I mean ZERO power below 3,000 RPM's, but respectable power above. I guess coming from a Supercharged GTP with so much low end punch...I was a little let down. Well, OK, a LOT let down. My current car: ----> http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Accelerate So, he will call me when he gets a manual to drive (who knows when???)... So, please, someone tell me a 5 speed is waaaay better than the 5EAT. I mean, it has to be waaaay better for me to understand what all the excitement is about. Zero low end; and only "OK" pull up top.... I mean, they claim the 5 spd runs a 5.7 0-60; faster than my GTP... and they claim the auto is a 6.5; same as my GTP....let me tell you...it is NOT the same. Car was pokey and bland. Any suggestions as to why I was so disappointed? not trying to kill this dead cat again, but i bought the 5mt because the auto seemed to be a bit slow. a stock 5mt has more of the "g" feel and is pretty quick. the legacy gt. ltd overall is in a different class than your gtp (fit, finish, reliability, price). my brother used to own the gtp and i could pull him both on a roll and from a start. matter of fact, my bro used to be frustrated at his 15 sec time on the 1/4. damn, that interior of those grand prix sure looked bland and cheap too, no offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avishar Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Got one suggestion that may help in the future.... Drive the turbo version edit: May want to change the title of the thread, what you drive was definately not a GT if it had no turbo, if you are still confused if the car had no hood scoop then it had no turbo and the turbo is the huge difference of which you are missing did anyone read this? He drove the nonturbo version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruin Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 did anyone read this? He drove the nonturbo version... He drove the non-turbo, and THEN the turbo. I'm stuck driving a non-turbo version, with zero options....when we get back, there is magically a GT sitting on the lot. hmmmm? anyways we get to drive that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Um, DID YOU READ IT??? He drove a 2.5i first, then the demo LGT 5EAT arrived, and he drove that one TOO! It is amazing how people pull the trigger to blast others before they have understood the context themselves. Plus, how much of these 8 pages have been devoted to the war of the transmissions? The guy wants a 5MT. He test drove a 5EAT and was underwhelmed. It has been explained why, and good tips given for next time... Why are people still hammering at this turbo/non-turbo, 5MT/5EAT stuff? How about telling Hogmeat about the things that you do like about your cars, and try and counter the mediocre experience he had at the dealership... Anyway, Hogmeat, If you are still looking for Legacys... Ramsey in DSM got 3 '06s in tonight. Silver wagon, black and Regal Blue sedans. They all had GT wheels, but I couldn't verify hoodscoops. (Do 06 2.5i's get the same wheels as the GT, or different 17"s?) I have no idea if they are Manuals or Autos, but if you are looking, they might be worth a gander. They were on the truck being unloaded at about 8:30pm tonight, as I drove by. And the moron salesman said (2 days ago) they wouldn't have any until the end of the month. Thumbs up their _____s. Thumbs up their ______s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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