Perscitus Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 Yep. When I worked as a tuner we used to start out with dyno pulls. Get the bulk of the tuning dialed in this way with a few pulls and in-between pulls. Let the car rest and cool off (prevent heat soak, even with huge industrial fans its easy to run an engine into the ground after a few hours of dyno pulls) and repeat later same day or next morning. Then fine tune on the 'street' (actually an old air strip rented out for events and races) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Good news. It's a long story and it's a small world, but I got a Nissan master tech from Charlotte that's going to help me do the tune for not much more than the cost of a case of good beer. He has been in touch with John and they have both assured me that it is highly unlikely that I will blow up my engine. Lol! They both also seem to agree that even if something does go wrong, the ECUtek tune does not leave a trail of being modified if flashed back to stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 They both also seem to agree that even if something does go wrong, the ECUtek tune does not leave a trail of being modified if flashed back to stock. What? ECUTek for years now have had a policy whereby they effectively lock your ECU to protect their maps. They do this by changing the communication protocol by which the ROMs are read and reflashed. It is policy not to return the communication protocol back to stock for any reason, not even for money. They will (usually for a fee) put the stock map back on the ECU, but they leave the communication protocol in their own mode. In that scenario, the Subaru Select Monitor diagnostic tools cannot interface with the ECU to either read off or reflash it. I'm not even sure that the software tools ECUTek supplies to licensees can leave the ECU in standard communication mode. In this case it's very clear to Subaru techs that something has been modified. There are then only two ways to return the ECU 100% to stock condition. 1. You need to find someone with the equipment and chops to reflash the ECU in SHboot mode, in effect a deep formatting of the ECU's EPROM chips, after which it's possible to communicate again with the ECU with normal tools. 2. You can marry a COBB Accessport with the car, and then un-marry it. All of these methods do indeed change a date stamp in the flashed ROMs which are present on the ECU, which will still alert an astute tech to when the ROM was modified on the car. So, if you let ECUTek reflash your stock ROM you're screwed because Subaru won't be able to read off the ROM on the car. If you unlock from ECUTek you're still screwed if the tech looks at the date of last flash and sees nothing matching that in your service record. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 ^Good stuff. I will run this by my guy in Charlotte. This seems to go completely against what they are telling me. As a master tech at a Nissan dealership and part time tuner, I'm confused that he would not know about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I don't know about your guy there, but ECUTek dealers here do not tell you beforehand your ECU will end up locked, nor that they will charge to 'put things back to stock', and then leave you still locked out of your own ECU. You can imagine a lot of people are very pissed off when they discover this, and are then told they're shit outta luck. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Hmm... did a quick google search and found this thread by John from another forum. The computer jargon is a bit over my head, but he seems to be addressing the issue you have mentioned. It sounds to me this problem has been addressed by ECUtek. Please tell me what I'm missing. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7480 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I don't know about your guy there, but ECUTek dealers here do not tell you beforehand your ECU will end up locked, nor that they will charge to 'put things back to stock', and then leave you still locked out of your own ECU. You can imagine a lot of people are very pissed off when they discover this, and are then told they're shit outta luck. Nah, we actually talked extensively about me having the ability to flash back to stock if I wanted/needed too. That's why I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Sorry, here's that link again. The locked ECU issue comes up about halfway down the first page. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7480 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I read your link. Yes it seems ECUTek will sell a kit with a cable and software with which you could tune your own car, and presumably undo the changes they make to comm protocols which effectively lock the ECU. Of course that costs a lot more than going to get a tune. They have some pretty complex licensing arrangements that may prevent dealers from unlocking cars that have had the maps returned to stock, forcing you to buy your own cable and license package to do it yourself. It seems to be an awful lot of money to get a modest boost in power. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 ^Yep. If you read a few posts back that was one of my original question to the board. Is it worth it? As been stated John is offering this base tune for $150 plus Dyno time. My problem is that I'm in NC and he is the only one offering the tune, so outside of driving to CT, I need the cables if I want this tune. Hence the increase in price for me. Otherwise, it seems to be a rather inexpensive tune, according to other board members. But with the cables, I can street tune with the help of my guy in Charlotte and not pay for Dyno time (I understand the pros and cons of this). So the reason why it's costing me extra is the cost of cables, but I will have the ability to flash/reflash when needed. Who knows, maybe if I can find other people in my area interested in ECUtek tunes, I could rent out the cables and recoup a bit of the cost this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 You have to kick a license fee to ECUTek for each car you tune, but this is how most of their dealers work. Most don't tune themselves, but flash maps from the database to customer cars, lock them into the system, pay the fee to ECUTek and move on to the next one. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I wouldn't be tuning the cars, just renting the cables out. I'm assuming the car owners would pay for their own licensing fee and applying their own tune, but it sounds like it may not work that way. Either way, it's not a deal breaker for me. Just a thought. I still think there is something to be said for owning my own cables. I can reflash back to stock for free and on demand, avoid paying dyno time to retune after I purchase other power mods (if they ever become available) and do my own logs and send them to John for tweaking. I also understand that I will need to put her on a Dyno at some point, but I think I will be ok with a street tune as long as I don't have any major mods, especially since I'm getting a master tech to assist me with the street tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Quick question. Does anybody know what happens to one of these "new school" ECUtek tunes if a CEL is thrown for something like a gas cap or an O2 sensor and you take it in to the dealership? If they reflash the ECU, does that wipeout the tune? I'm not asking if they will find out about the tune, just asking what happens to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Might as well chime in, since I'm a ecutek master tuner (cough). If your car does get reflashed by the dealer, yes, it will overwrite the license and tuned ROM that is on your ECU. You then need to provide paperwork to EcuTEK proving that this situation has occurred, at which point they will provide a new license to your dongle. In the situations where you don't own a cable/dongle, they will send it to your tuner, and they will have to reflash it for you. If you do already have a cable, though, there is no need to bring it to the dealer, the ecutek flash software will clear the CEL/DTC codes for you. Of course, you can do the same thing by unplugging the battery of the car. When it comes to a dealer reflashing the car, you do need to put the "stock" ROM back in, otherwise they will have issues (as mentioned). It's not quite the same situation as it was back in the day, but similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 THANK YOU!!! And that jives with everything I've learned so far. Another benefit to owning my own cable since there's no ECUtek within 4-5 hours of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sschmelcke Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I just want my tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItalianLegacy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I want someone to open source define the ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItalianLegacy Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 $500.00 reward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Open source is great, but that's the issue with it - getting a definition done can take, in some cases, years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sschmelcke Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 $500.00 reward! I will match that 500 dollar reward and throw in a donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 You can get the tune, if you are willing to pay $750. The more I learn about it ECUtek, the more I think this is what they want you to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItalianLegacy Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 ecutek can sucka mah bawllsssaaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 It does seem a little lame, but they sell the cables and push this e-tune thing for a reason. Read those post from John on the BRZ forum I posted and see if you get the same feeling as I do. Here's an outside idea, you and ssmhelke could go in together on the cables (since you guys are so "close") and purchase the tune through the link I already have. I bet you wouldn't even need to put it on the dyno since you already have a CBE like Percs. Then you guys will have the cables to reflash bac k to stock on demand. And since you guys are in a more Subaru populated area, you may be able to rent them out or whatever. I'm not sure paying for dyno is necessary at this point, especially until other major mods are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 ecutek can sucka mah bawllsssaaa!Chocolate swap donkey salty bawllss by any chance? Judging by the latest FB posts, our tuner prefers 750 whp BRZs and fooling around like a teenager on public roads. Earns an automatic double face-palm from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Whoa. That's harsh, Chef! It isn't that bad if he was on a 70mph speed limit lonely interstate, right? lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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