pdw Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Daft bureaucracy crap. Mandate every little thing, then charge money to test it all over and over again... There is a reason "deregulation" has become a word. It is either the gov't charging tens of millions of dollars to the car manufacturers for the service of crash testing their cars, which BTW, is mandatory... And if they didn't charge the car company, who charges me in the price of the car... The gov't would otherwise raise taxes and charge me anyway. I know nothing is free, but what happens when everyone has to pay for bureaucratic inefficiency, and gov't waste... You are right on about it being stupid to pull the 5MT from the wagon in that case. I just wonder what they'll do with the WRX STi when the impreza goes to a shortened legacy platform, and the STi wants to keep it's 6MT, when all the rest of the cars get 5MTs... OR if they want to offer a higher-performance legacy, like an STi model. Meh, regulation can be bad or good, largely depending on the amount. Too little and we'd still have carburated engined spewing filth into the atmosphere (I remember driving around with my parents in the late 70's, the air was BAD). Cars wouldn't be as safe either. I have no faith that the auto makers would have cleaned up their products on their own. Half the time they refuse to fulfill their warranty obligations. Crash testing every engine/body/trans combo is a bit ridiculous though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgsntth Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Spec B wagon. Bilstein suspension, no sunroof, re050's-hooray!, leather, 12-13" 4-pot brakes, and telescoping wheel. Sad to say, though I thought I could live with it, my OBXT's soft suspension, hideous tires, miserable braking, tag team duo non-telescoping wheel and sunroof-I cannot get comfortable, are causing me to have second thoughts about the car. I would swap it out for a Spec B as described above. I'm also taking a hard look at the Volvo V70R, really hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Pimp Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Fold down rear seats Other color leather besides red Brembos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Opie, Is that for real? What a waste...... I editted my post for clarity...but if your question was regarding the RE050A's....yes, I'm serious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayDhaIn Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I talked to a Subaru sales guy a couple of days ago when i was doing my 15k service, and he said a spec B should come out next week and will be displayed on Polaris Mall here in Columbus,OH. Oh yeah, he also said that there's gonna be 555 spec B available. Hmm,i wonder what is the significance of the "555" number?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyamdman Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 If the Spec B. is just a suspension option, then all it would need to justify a $2-3k cost is simply to become a Legacy GT option for C-Dan and Wagon - no matter what color. Ditch the colored leather and add some little details like 18" x 8" rims with 235 tires, right side mirror that tilts down when you hit Reverse, obviously a radio with AUX IN (F-ing duh SOA!!!) and tilt/telescoping steering wheel. Now, if you want to talk about what I would want in a Legacy STI for $40K, that is another matter - and maybe another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Oh yeah, he also said that there's gonna be 555 spec B available. Hmm,i wonder what is the significance of the "555" number?? http://www.rally.f-1.ru/rally/s2002/pic/subaru%20555/04.jpg Rally car designation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I editted my post for clarity...but if your question was regarding the RE050A's....yes, I'm serious.... Thanks IMHO, the Spec B is a waste of time and money Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyh Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Ok... you asked... here goes. ..... I should be able to go into a Subaru Dealer, and make the following decisions, each independent of the other options. Sedan or Wagon Legacy (lower) or Outback (taller) Engines: 2.5 w/o Turbo, 2.5 Turbo, or 3.0 H6. (with a 3.0R Legacy sedan, 3.0R Outback sedan may be moot point, maybe outback is wagon only. haven't decided...) Transmission/AWD: Standard 5MT/Symetrical, Optional 5EAT-SS/VTD, Optional 6MT/VTD (like Legacy 3.0R Spec B in other markets) Interior: Black, Taupe, or Grey interior. Limited package or not. (leather and Sunroof) Spec B sport suspension package or not; available for GT and 3.0R, standard 6MT, no-cost 5EAT option, 18x7.5" wheels, RE950s 225/40-18, bilstein struts, specific STi springs, aluminum control arms, 20mm rear sway bar, and unique front bumper cover, with Spec B larger grille. Spec B/Bilstein badge on trunk.) NAV or not. Dealer installable after-sale, as well. All models. Convenience Package: Memory seats/Homelink/HID, maybe more (standard on 3.0R models, optional on GT/2.5i) Garnet Red should become a color choice for the whole line, and Solid Red added for 2.5 GT and 3.0R. WR Blue optional on Spec B package, or a commemorative edition, like 04 JDM WR Limited Spec B. Somehow to get at least a few WR Blue Legacys built in the US. That way if you wanted cloth interior, no sunroof with a 2.5 Turbo/6MT and Spec B suspension in a wagon, you could order that. +1 That would be what I would've ordered. So, now if my car gets totaled there is nothing on the market that I'd want. Including the '06 offerings from Subaru, but they'd rather not listen to what some of their customers want. Martin Luther - "Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long." EL4NFZT7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Okay, I'm going to give two answers: what I would want in a Spec-B, and what I would want in a Legacy STI. Spec-B: Bilstein suspension, max-performance tires (I'd pick Bridgestone S-03's, but that's negotiable), bigger front brakes, an extra 20-30 horsepower, and different wheels, possibly but not necessarily 18's. Short-throw shifter and Momo knob would be standard, and the price would be no more than $3K more than a standard LGT. Also, there would be a choice of colors, so that I don't have to take a red interior in order to get the performance mods. Additional badging would be subtle, but would indicate the Spec-B package. Legacy STI: STI coilover suspension, max-performance tires, really big brakes, at least 330-350 hp (possibly in the form of a turbo H6), lightweight 18" or 19" wheels, 6-spd transmission with short-throw shifter and unique STI knob, and a price in the $36-39K range. Basically, the idea is that the Spec-B would be a reasonably priced performance option package for the LGT which would include most of the mods enthusiasts commonly choose to do. The Legacy STI would be a totally different car, a legitimate M3 fighter for the serious performance enthusiast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Tommyh, I think you'd have to find another 2005. RFD425, I am with you on the STi stuff... Basically, I have said the same in the past. Many times. Spec B being an option package on top of the GT. 2500-3k seems like a good price. not as much margin for SOA as 2.5k for cow interior and a glass panel in the roof, but I can't imagine people opting for it if it costs more than that. Legacy STi being a separate model above the GT Spec B. It would have all of the Spec B stuff installed standard, but I am not sure if any manufacturer will put full-on aftermarket-grade coil overs on a production sedan. Probably just Bilstein struts, STi progressive springs, decent size roll bars, and aluminum arms. Like Spec B, but valved and sprung correctly for the weight of the H6TT The H6TT that they installed in the B11S concept car made a whole lot more than 330hp. More like 400. That is more like it. More than the Charger RT. (although not as much as SRT) More than non-M BMWs, and non-S4 A4s. 6MT with Variable Torque Distribution AWD is a must. 5EAT optional for those who really want an auto in a car like that... (but why? just kidding! ) STi's brembo brakes would do quite nicely for a ~3400lb car. I would think mid 35k-38k depending on NAV option, and sunroof. (all of them would get black leather / blue alcantara / red stitchwork interiors, regardless of sunroof. Of course the spec b would get a little bling of a badge, and the STi would get it's little jewelry... I'd save, beg, borrow, trade, whatever to get an STi like that, but who knows if it is going to show up. A Spec B package on any GT would be a definite start, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyamdman Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 If Subi wants to reposition the brand upmarket, then it is going to need an M3, and the only way they could do that is an STI Leg with a Turbo H6. We are talkin' 400 horse kinda M3 eater. Now, that I would pay $40k for, or even more!! Hell, I would pay $45k for a wagon!! If it is $50k, then I would get an M3. Subi will never have that kind of brand equity ($50k worth) - or at least in this decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyh Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Heck, all I really want is for SOA to have decided to continue to build my car and not decided that people don't want a Sport Wagon, since BMW is heavily advertising its 5-series SPORT WAGON. Martin Luther - "Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long." EL4NFZT7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith05legacyGT Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Hmmm I have an '05 limited black on black with factory short throw, Cobb Stage 1, Anthracite SSR 18" wearing Bridgestone Pole Positions. Over 17k trouble free miles already. Getting the STI spec springs and some beefier sway bars to finish off the ride and a B Spec rear spoiler. Unless the B Spec has a 6 speed and same variable AWD as the STI I don't really think it would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Pretty much what IwanaSportSedan said with these comments: 1. Must have a wagon option for me to buy. 2. 340 to 375 torque is okay by me. 3. Get real on price. $37k-$38k, before NAV, for all the power, 6MT, H6TT, Brembos, suspension, 18s with great tires, upgraded audio, interior upgraded, even better seats. We are asking for a M3/S4 level car and $2k-3k under $40k USD is a major bargin. No reason for Subaru to offer a Halo or Flagship car to crazed, market fringe enthusiasts for a loss. I do think Subaru will get major promo/press and brand uplift from such a super machine. A question for all you pro gear heads. Can Subaru produce the H6TT and meet their historic reliability expectation? We and Subaru do not need a costly pain in the "ARS" (Audi Reliability Sucks) syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatChips107 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 it needs a better stereo and BREMBO's !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Minimum: Wagon, Badging, Wheels Better: 6MT, 280+hp/tq Best World Rally Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 1. Must have a wagon option for me to buy. 2. 340 to 375 torque is okay by me. 3. Get real on price. $37k-$38k, before NAV, for all... I do think Subaru will get major promo/press and brand uplift from such a super machine. A question for all you pro gear heads. Can Subaru produce the H6TT and meet their historic reliability expectation? We and Subaru do not need a costly pain in the "ARS" (Audi Reliability Sucks) syndrome. Not to have a wagon option on a Legacy STi would be preposterous. It would be a grand tourer (the WRX STi is more of a sporty/rally car) and what is better than a touring wagon getting more power? I have a feeling that FHI won't do it if they can't make the 3.0 TT as reliable as they expect it to be. They have likely been working on it for quite some time. akm3: I'm with you... wagon should be there, especially with the demise of the GT 5MT wagon. a GT Spec B Manual wagon would at least be a bone thrown to enthusiast drivers who want a wagon. The US Spec B is already getting the 18" Spec B rims from Japan, I just wish they were wider than 7". They look nice, though, especially with a bit of lowering. A 6MT would be a real substantial selling point, and Subaru already has it in other markets on the 3.0R Spec B. 280hp/torque: mild ECU re-flash will get it there, as it's almost there already (underrated at 250 now) It'd be a nice touch for enthusiasts, a marketing tool, and not much trouble for SOA no significant cost increases. WR Blue. I've already said I'd crawl over people to get a WR Blue legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 We have 43 postings and no images of the Spec-B - what gives??? Post some pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukindada Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 4-5k more for Suspension..Badging...Wheels & a ugly interior:lol: Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Here are opie's earlier pics, from the "New Info" thread... Pics he took covertly at a SOA dealers meeting earlier this year. Note that red leather color may not be completely accurate due to the close flash, but we are thankful just to have any pics at all... [pics taken down, out of date] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Who does Subaru think anyone will buy a Spec B (as we think it will be equiped) for any more than $1,500 over LegGT/Ltd? Take a look at what you get from BMW for $1,600, 325i Sport Package. 1. Anyone with an existing LegGT would be crazy to trade up for the Spec B, IMHO. 2. Old guys like me with $, that are new Subaru buyers and do not want a wagon like me, may consider the Spec B, but will laugh/walk if price is more than $1,500 over LegGT/Ltd list and I am not sure this group even exists. 3. Younger WRX move up types know thay can do better with their own aftermarket mod program. I just cannot see why anyone would opt for the Spec B, over a LegGT/Ltd if it cost more than $1,500 extra. What the hell is Subaru SOA thinking? If this car is intended to keep the LegGT in the press, it will and it will gen bad press. Now, for a real LegGT/Sti, incl a wagon, like IwanaSportSedan has profiled, I can see how a number of very different small groups of buyers would fight for every unit shipped in the $37-$39K range. SOA must be too smart to do this and we must have bad info on the content or price of Spec B being considered for NorAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 You know, this discussion sounds VERY familiar to me when we were talking about the "new" STi before it was released and everyone said "Why would people pay more for 30hp and some bodykit changes?". This is when everyone still thought the STi was going to be a 2.0l and 260ish hp. Then Subaru dropped a bomb on everyone with the 300/300 2.5l . . . And they kept the secret GOOD too...Maybe they have something up their sleeves for the SpecB that they haven't released yet... Hmmm.... But still, damnit, I want a fricking wagon. With standard transmission. And easy aftermarket radio -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Wagon, wagon wagon, wagon, get it, we are talking Subaru, wagon, wagon, wagon. Subaru owns the wagon segment, don't walk away from it so you can compete in the oh so non-competitive sedan segment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tide Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I've talked to a few different dealers and many feel that it will come with an HP bump, which is why its not immediately listed with the rest of the model information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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