TrueWhiteBoy Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I think Subaru is just taking a page from what Toyota & Honda have been doing for years. The idea is to keep making a car with the same name, but change the car so that by the time an owner wears one out, the new current version is everything they need now. This means cars getting bigger over time, as families and waistlines expand. You don't have to do any thinking, just go back to the same dealer and say you want another one of the same. Meanwhile, they introduce new models to appeal to the areas of the market that were left behind as the other models drifted up to blimp size. Look at the Camry, the Accord, even the Civic & Corolla. All much bigger than when they started each name. Meanwhile Fits, Scions & Yarii have been introduced to fill the small car roles. Younger buyers get cars that are all-new and exciting; older buyers get welcome upgrades from lazily going back to the same name, and the carmakers sell more cars. That said, I think the Outback pretty much has to keep getting bigger. The tribeca isn't selling well, so I envision them enlarging the Outback to take its place. Meanwhile the new Subaru XV has more than a passing resemblance to the 3rd gen Outback, and the dimensions seem pretty similar too. Huh, never thought of it like that, but it certainly makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red beast Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 if the new redesign is in 2014 then it will be a hybrid. hybrid models need to be redesigned to accommodate the inverter, battery pack, and fuel tank locations. the timing would be in line with the cafe regs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 So the LGT is going to have a 2.0 L turbo. And hopefully the redesign / facelift would be closer to the Audi A4 than to the hideous Impreza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVSPONE Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I thought the redesign is going to be a 2015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneDoubleN Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I see the LGT following the same fate as the outback xt. Seems to make sense to me if I just guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 LOL at people that can't drive a manual transmission car! Not all auto owners are clueless. Just because you can give blowjobs to strange guys in a dark alleyway doesn't mean you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's just not what a sports sedan should feel, look like. Too heavy, too big. More of a family sedan. 4th gen wasn't the best for Family's but it wasn't meant to be one. They made the current gen lgt an great Family car and targeted camry, accord owners but forgot about what an sports sedan feels and look like. Frameless windows to Framed windows because? Targeting camry and accord owners. More leg room because? We don't care about more leg room. Targeting camry, accord owners again. I've driven one and it just doesn't have the same feeling as the 4th gen does. More of a Family/Road Trip car. I'll buy one if that's what I needed. It's not selling well because the past Legacy owners are going else where for that sports sedan feel. Say like an g37(that'll be my next car if Subaru doesn't bring the lgt back to the sports sedan class) Only a small percentage of past legacy owners are buying this current model, maybe they need more leg room and a great family car. Everyone else is waiting for the Legacy to wake up from it's daydream of a great Family sedan and come back to the sports sedan world. Willing to trade if Subaru brings the lgt back to reality and stop targeting camry and accord owners. We don't need more leg room or framed windows. No one really sits in the back anyways. We don't care if we hear wind noise. It's not suppose to be a family/luxury car. It's not selling well cause past legacy owners are going elsewhere or are still driving the 4th gen model cause it feels, looks like how it's suppose too and what is selling are a few old Camry, Accord owners and maybe a few past legacy owners. Why's it not selling? Hint, Because the Camry and Accord are still alive. So who's suppose to buy this one? Us true legacy owners cuz we need more leg room and hip room cuz we're getting fatter? cuz we need a much more quieter ride? cuz we're not suppose to mod it cuz it's not suppose to be autocross type of car cuz it's an Family sedan with framed windows and more leg, hip room. C'mon Subaru, Stop targeting Camry, Accord owners and Target us true Legacy owners. Then you'll be selling. Camry and Accord owners are still buying and driving there's, which is why your lgt isn't selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syndicate Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 ...I will not exhume this sport sedan horse. That being said I believe a sporty Legacy will remain in the mix. However, what form that takes if it isn't a 2.5GT is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's just not what a sports sedan should feel, look like. Too heavy, too big. More of a family sedan. 4th gen wasn't the best for Family's but it wasn't meant to be one. They made the current gen lgt an great Family car and targeted camry, accord owners but forgot about what an sports sedan feels and look like. Frameless windows to Framed windows because? Targeting camry and accord owners. More leg room because? We don't care about more leg room. Targeting camry, accord owners again. I've driven one and it just doesn't have the same feeling as the 4th gen does. More of a Family/Road Trip car. I'll buy one if that's what I needed. It's not selling well because the past Legacy owners are going else where for that sports sedan feel. Say like an g37(that'll be my next car if Subaru doesn't bring the lgt back to the sports sedan class) Only a small percentage of past legacy owners are buying this current model, maybe they need more leg room and a great family car. Everyone else is waiting for the Legacy to wake up from it's daydream of a great Family sedan and come back to the sports sedan world. Willing to trade if Subaru brings the lgt back to reality and stop targeting camry and accord owners. We don't need more leg room or framed windows. No one really sits in the back anyways. We don't care if we hear wind noise. It's not suppose to be a family/luxury car. It's not selling well cause past legacy owners are going elsewhere or are still driving the 4th gen model cause it feels, looks like how it's suppose too and what is selling are a few old Camry, Accord owners and maybe a few past legacy owners. Why's it not selling? Hint, Because the Camry and Accord are still alive. So who's suppose to buy this one? Us true legacy owners cuz we need more leg room and hip room cuz we're getting fatter? cuz we need a much more quieter ride? cuz we're not suppose to mod it cuz it's not suppose to be autocross type of car cuz it's an Family sedan with framed windows and more leg, hip room. C'mon Subaru, Stop targeting Camry, Accord owners and Target us true Legacy owners. Then you'll be selling. Camry and Accord owners are still buying and driving there's, which is why your lgt isn't selling. What's leg room have to do with being fat? I had an 06 LGT and it was way too small for anyone to sit in the back unless they were 8 or younger. I bet Subaru is making a lot more profit this time around and higher sales on the 5th gen over 4th gen. Why the hate on framed windows? If you're talking about the LGT, maybe it's not selling because people want an automatic and not for any of the reasons you have mentioned. I'd take a 5th gen LGT over a 4th gen any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What's leg room have to do with being fat? I had an 06 LGT and it was way too small for anyone to sit in the back unless they were 8 or younger. I bet Subaru is making a lot more profit this time around and higher sales on the 5th gen over 4th gen. Why the hate on framed windows? If you're talking about the LGT, maybe it's not selling because people want an automatic and not for any of the reasons you have mentioned. I'd take a 5th gen LGT over a 4th gen any day of the week. +1 to all of this. And don't forget the 5G LGT engine. I'd take that any day over what the 4G has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If people aren't buying the GT, it's probably not because it is manual only. Have you seen how bloated the thing looks? It's about as sporty looking as a dairy cow. Besides, I doubt it is being killed off. How many times have we been told by "salesmen in the know" incorrect things about Subaru's lineup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halwith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://www.subaru.com/company/news/2011_january.html *scroll down a little for the 09 and 10 sales. then see jan 2012 for 11 year sales. from 30k to 42k units in 2 model years. wish they did a breakdown by trim level. they hit a trend and know it so its unlikely the will "go back" to anything regarding the legacy. i call bullshit salesman. he doesnt know anything that the rest of the world doesnt. but he might be right by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If people aren't buying the GT, it's probably not because it is manual only. Have you seen how bloated the thing looks? It's about as sporty looking as a dairy cow. Besides, I doubt it is being killed off. How many times have we been told by "salesmen in the know" incorrect things about Subaru's lineup? I think it looks great. The 4th gen can look extremely amazing with some mods, in the end though, it's tiny. I think 5th gen has the 4th beat on everything but the dash surface softness. Year Subaru Legacy U.S.*Sales 2002 85,359 2003 79,839 2004 89,453 2005 87,788 2006 84,442 2007 78,428 2008 66,876 2009 30,974 2010 38,725 2011 42,401 As far as sales go, looks like they started falling halfway through the 4th gens life-cycle. Given that these sales numbers are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakapur Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think it looks great. The 4th gen can look extremely amazing with some mods, in the end though, it's tiny. I think 5th gen has the 4th beat on everything but the dash surface softness. Year Subaru Legacy U.S.*Sales 2002 85,359 2003 79,839 2004 89,453 2005 87,788 2006 84,442 2007 78,428 2008 66,876 2009 30,974 2010 38,725 2011 42,401 As far as sales go, looks like they started falling halfway through the 4th gens life-cycle. Given that these sales numbers are correct. Not 100? sure but they did away with the Legacy wagon around that time (technically the Outback is on the paperwork as Legacy wagon but still) for me I sell these cars, everyone I talked to that went from a previous gen to the new gen likes the new one better. even people without the previous likes the new ones better. I have driven the previous Legacys and I own the new Legacy, I like the bigger body, more interior room, more luxury feel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halwith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 those sales numbers dont look right. maybe total legacy and outback sales or worldwide or something. subaru news january 09 news puts 07 08 sales for us legacy at ~21000 http://www.subaru.com/company/news/2009_january.html and http://www.subaru.com/company/news/2010_january.html you can see 2009. *they really didnt need to make it look like a camry from behind though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah, those numbers are way off. Legacy sedan had a record year last year and the year before. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spun Muffler Bearings Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As far as sales go, looks like they started falling halfway through the 4th gens life-cycle. Given that these sales numbers are correct. First off I reckon these would be sales numbers, meaning Jan 1-Dec 31 of a given year. Thus, each sales year would be some of the matching year model year, and mostly the following model year. For example, sales year 2009 would be some MY09 cars and some MY10 cars. Year Subaru Legacy U.S.*Sales 2002 85,359 2003 79,839 2004 89,453 2005 87,788 2006 84,442 2007 78,428 2008 66,876 <-- financial markets choked hard august '08. Hard to get a loan, nigh impossible to get a lease. 2009 30,974 2010 38,725 2011 42,401 They could have been on their way to a new record for '08, and then it all went out the window on wall street. Remember all the aerial video on the news of unsold cars stacked up in parking lots, at shipping ports and rights-of-way? There were plenty of news stories about it back then. I'm not saying that sales were not hurt by the redesign... Rather, nothing they could have done would have made up for the meltdown. Nobody was selling many cars in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's just not what a sports sedan should feel, look like. Too heavy, too big. More of a family sedan. 4th gen wasn't the best for Family's but it wasn't meant to be one. They made the current gen lgt an great Family car and targeted camry, accord owners but forgot about what an sports sedan feels and look like. Frameless windows to Framed windows because? Targeting camry and accord owners. More leg room because? We don't care about more leg room. Targeting camry, accord owners again. I've driven one and it just doesn't have the same feeling as the 4th gen does. More of a Family/Road Trip car. I'll buy one if that's what I needed. It's not selling well because the past Legacy owners are going else where for that sports sedan feel. Say like an g37(that'll be my next car if Subaru doesn't bring the lgt back to the sports sedan class) Only a small percentage of past legacy owners are buying this current model, maybe they need more leg room and a great family car. Everyone else is waiting for the Legacy to wake up from it's daydream of a great Family sedan and come back to the sports sedan world. Willing to trade if Subaru brings the lgt back to reality and stop targeting camry and accord owners. We don't need more leg room or framed windows. No one really sits in the back anyways. We don't care if we hear wind noise. It's not suppose to be a family/luxury car. It's not selling well cause past legacy owners are going elsewhere or are still driving the 4th gen model cause it feels, looks like how it's suppose too and what is selling are a few old Camry, Accord owners and maybe a few past legacy owners. Why's it not selling? Hint, Because the Camry and Accord are still alive. So who's suppose to buy this one? Us true legacy owners cuz we need more leg room and hip room cuz we're getting fatter? cuz we need a much more quieter ride? cuz we're not suppose to mod it cuz it's not suppose to be autocross type of car cuz it's an Family sedan with framed windows and more leg, hip room. C'mon Subaru, Stop targeting Camry, Accord owners and Target us true Legacy owners. Then you'll be selling. Camry and Accord owners are still buying and driving there's, which is why your lgt isn't selling. The legacy is and always was a family sedan that's what it was meant for. the BL thought it could capture some of the magic from the WRX introduction, and failed miserably. Not only that, it couldn't keep up with the reignited commitment by the luxury segment to their entry sedan products. It was too small for families, too conventional to keep up with the luxury segment. Subaru's entire range was too small for its segments. All of the cars were designed for Japanese and not for the US (it's largest passenger car market). There was a list at one point showing why people didn't buy Subarus. Too small was a top 3 detractor. the BM GT outperforms the BL in performance in every category except 0-60, and that's only because torque is limited in 1st and 2nd gears. Framed windows were to keep wind noise down and provide a better seal/sound when opening and shutting the doors. I guess if you get enough people telling you your doors sound cheap, you fix them. The 2.5i was always the sales leader for the BL Legacy. GT owners are delusional in thinking the GT was volume model for the Legacy lineup. Subaru realigned the Legacy to be what it was from 1990-2004 and stop chasing the unprofitable visions of grandeur they had for the entire lineup starting with the BL. The Legacy is not a BMW. It's not an Audi. For 2-3 brief years it dipped a toe in the pond before getting left in the dust. The Legacy is an Accord, Camry, Fusion, Altima, Sonata alternative. It was nice to pretend it wasn't for awhile, but it's time to come back to reality. First off I reckon these would be sales numbers, meaning Jan 1-Dec 31 of a given year. Thus, each sales year would be some of the matching year model year, and mostly the following model year. For example, sales year 2009 would be some MY09 cars and some MY10 cars. Year Subaru Legacy U.S.*Sales 2002 85,359 2003 79,839 2004 89,453 2005 87,788 2006 84,442 2007 78,428 2008 66,876 <-- financial markets choked hard august '08. Hard to get a loan, nigh impossible to get a lease. 2009 30,974 2010 38,725 2011 42,401 They could have been on their way to a new record for '08, and then it all went out the window on wall street. Remember all the aerial video on the news of unsold cars stacked up in parking lots, at shipping ports and rights-of-way? There were plenty of news stories about it back then. I'm not saying that sales were not hurt by the redesign... Rather, nothing they could have done would have made up for the meltdown. Nobody was selling many cars in those days. The numbers just aren't right period. Where is the source? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halwith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 *@ spun muffin bearings i guess you didnt go to subaru.com links i posted. they say they sold 21000 legacys in 2007 22k in 2008 and 30k in 2009. then 38k in 2010 with the redesign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD123 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Don't forget they got rid of the Legacy wagon in 2007 or 2008, forcing wagon buyers to go with the Outback (which is effectively the same car with a taller suspension) - the current Legacy/Outback is outselling the previous generation by a sizable margin, and year to year sales really haven't fallen for Subaru as they did for other manufacturers. I think it looks great. The 4th gen can look extremely amazing with some mods, in the end though, it's tiny. I think 5th gen has the 4th beat on everything but the dash surface softness. Year Subaru Legacy U.S.*Sales 2002 85,359 2003 79,839 2004 89,453 2005 87,788 2006 84,442 2007 78,428 2008 66,876 2009 30,974 2010 38,725 2011 42,401 As far as sales go, looks like they started falling halfway through the 4th gens life-cycle. Given that these sales numbers are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halwith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 apparently they have decided to discontinue the gt in favor of building these http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/fa200/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 apparently they have decided to discontinue the gt in favor of building these http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/fa200/ You do realise Subaru started off in the aero business before cars right ? Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halwith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/subaru-legacy-sales-figures.html That's where I got the figures.. I did state I wasn't sure if they were correct though. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSniper Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 IMO the turbo is not going anywhere, they are going to axe the 3.6R since an auto 2.5 Turbo would make more sense for CAFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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