Epitaph Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Im faced with a decision and i would like some input from you guys... My next vehicle is either going to be a black on black(or grey) 05 LGT (auto) or an 02-03 black on black(or grey) Audi a6 2.7t quattro Now ive done my reading, and taken alot of things into consideration... Personally ive come to the LGT conclusion, but alot of my friends seem to think that im crazy (thats an understatment). Power wise i hear jus a reprogram on the 2.7t is amazing.. (but ive yet to find actual quatermile times or 0-60 with it) Any input?? Advice?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I wouldn't want to deal with the wonderful Audi reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epitaph Posted June 26, 2005 Author Share Posted June 26, 2005 Yea, i heard those 2.7t engines are known to have some problems... its also an 02/3 to an 05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aczwild Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Go with the GT, the damn thing is bulletproof and the resale value is pretty high if you ever feel like getting rid of it. And yeah avoid the Audi, parts arent cheap and you dont want to deal with the reliability (expecially if its a used car, you dont know how bad its been beat on) just like emorphien said. JDM'd All to hell Thanks Jimmy @ Hkc-Speed.com! RIP Coxx & Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I would say the main tangible diffiyances between the two are power, AWD system, weight and reliability. Power - 250/258 = 250/250 AWD - Quattro > Sym AWD Weight - 3800 > 3400 Reliabilility - Audi < Subaru Power-to-Weight Ratio - Audi < Subaru Also Mod Price - Audi > Subaru Out-of-Warranty $$$ - Audi > Subaru I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Is Quattro actually better than Subaru's AWD? From people I've spoken to and some things I've read, that doesn't seem to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I've always seen people on this board who tried both, say that Quattro was better than Subaru's AWD. Enlighten me with links to that material, thanks. Edit: Found this http://forums.germancarfans.com/zerothread?id=15433&postid=233270 . Since Audi's Quattro has a Torsen differential, it predicts slippage and directs torque to the grippier wheel before slippage happens, now with Subaru's AWD, it is more of a reactive system, that directs torque after it has sensed slip. But then again, Subaru has advantage with the low center of gravity boxer engines compared to Audi's Longitudinal inline and V engines with a higher CR over the front axle. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Honestly with your driving record get the Legacy i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Maybe a Smart car would be better suited :-p Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trax Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I wouldn't want to deal with the wonderful Audi reliability. Exactly. New Legacy = New Warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukindada Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I came from a 03 S4 Avant with a few mods & yes the ECU upgrade on Audis is amazing, the more conservative ones will bring you 60hp & some of the tuned versions 85-90;) The biggest reason I no longer have the Audi.........MAINTENANCE.......it sucks! Also modding the GT is much, much cheaper than the Audi. Another item to look at is insurance, I would be willing to bet the GT will be 20-30% cheaper for yearly coverage;) Good luck on your choice, if you wait until football season I come down for several UM games a year. I'll bring it down early in the season & possibly we can meet up;) And no I would never park it around the OB......Taxi only to the games. Toyota 6EATS .........SUCK!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trax Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 If you live next door to the service manager you might consider the Audi. Or, do like the Jag owners do - buy two. Just swap them out at the service department on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Since Audi's Quattro has a Torsen differential, it predicts slippage and directs torque to the grippier wheel before slippage happens, now with Subaru's AWD, it is more of a reactive system, that directs torque after it has sensed slip. Sorry, but that's a bunch of PR bull. Even with a couple of super computers under the hood, it wouldn't be able to predict slippage before it happens. All AWD systems are reactive, no matter how fast they are. The only thing in the car that can predict slippage is the driver, since they are the only thing in the car that is (theoretically) seeing what is coming up on the road. In most conditions, the Subaru AWD has proven to be just as good, and in some cases, better, than the Quattro. Especially on the dry, with it's default 50/50 split in the manual. My personal view of them as car? The Audi has higher cachet, no doubt. Looks a bit sleeker, going to be a bit lux and upscale in comparison to the Legacy. However, the Legacy is going to have performance on it's side, excellent road manners, none of the dire understeer of the Audi, and a *warranty*. If the Audi had a lot more interior space, I might be more tempted towards it. But I'd have to go with the Legacy on this one. Cheers, Paul Hansen http://www.avoturboworld.com http://www.sevenphotos.com http://www.apexjapan.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I drove an Autothority chipped S4 prior to buying my LGT - it's a nice car but, meh...I can't imagine having that motor in the A6 would be even close to impressive since it's a larger chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayout Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Sorry, but that's a bunch of PR bull. Even with a couple of super computers under the hood, it wouldn't be able to predict slippage before it happens. All AWD systems are reactive, no matter how fast they are. The only thing in the car that can predict slippage is the driver, since they are the only thing in the car that is (theoretically) seeing what is coming up on the road. In most conditions, the Subaru AWD has proven to be just as good, and in some cases, better, than the Quattro. Especially on the dry, with it's default 50/50 split in the manual. My personal view of them as car? The Audi has higher cachet, no doubt. Looks a bit sleeker, going to be a bit lux and upscale in comparison to the Legacy. However, the Legacy is going to have performance on it's side, excellent road manners, none of the dire understeer of the Audi, and a *warranty*. If the Audi had a lot more interior space, I might be more tempted towards it. But I'd have to go with the Legacy on this one. Cheers, Paul Hansen www.avoturboworld.com www.sevenphotos.com www.apexjapan.com I'm such a whore for online information/heresay. I'll workout a few brain cells before posting crap like this again. I keed I keeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Exactly. New Legacy = New Warranty. Completely separate from the issue that Audis tend to be troublesome cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsmile71 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Seeing how you're looking at a used Audi leads me to believe that you have a limited budget. A new GT vs. a used Audi...especially a 3 year old Audi...Definitely the GT. Audi's get VERY expensive to maintain out of warranty. Suspension links, brakes, CV joints, wheel bearings, etc. Audi's are very solid cars and are also very heavy. The weight takes it's toll on suspension and brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Epitaph, Did you wanna buy my S4??? heheheheh Couple of advices I would give it to you: First of all, both cars are amazing cars, and each has its own characteristic and driving style. S4's are more bulletproof and reliable than A6 2.7T, but you pay the price for it.. And yet, can't compare with LGT, which is way more durable and reliable... Yes, Audi with either APR or MTM mods (Stage II I got) are a blast!!!! Mine is putting out at about 340~350hp @ crank just with an ECU upgrade and bipipes...The fastest I was able to go in that baby was 13.2 1/4 mile. Now if you go to Stage III, which includes R04 turbos (same as the RS4), putting down 460hp @ crank, I ve seen an S4 doing 1/4 mile in 11.00 secs!!!!!!!! (we are talking 4~5K to mod it though!!!) However I have driven a LGT Stage II Cobb with a couple of modded pipes and the thing is really a blaaaaaast to drive, I have posted the same comparison on another alias, can't remember where now, but the weight difference ~about 3200 lbs instead of over 2 tons on the S4~, the way the Boxster engine is mounted to give better gravity center, all the options you have to mod your LGT and it's waaaaaaay cheaper than Audi.... Reason why I still have my S4? Maybe it's because I am stupid, nah it's just because I haven't found a buyer yet... It's an awesome car, but maintenance is awful and insane if out of warranty... Anything that brakes, get your pocket ready, and over a brand new LGT? No comparisons!!! If you ask me about AUDI QUATTRO, yes I would say it's a little better both handling and in snow than the symmetrical AWD from Subbie, but all the cost benefit, it's ridiculous to compare those 2 cars, IMHO buy a LGT!!! So all this applies to the A6 2.7T which is basicaly the same drivetrain, with a little slower auto (if you get auto trannie) and worse suspension and wheels (if you don't get the sport package). If you need any additional comments or comparisons, pls PM me dude I ll be glad to go over some things with you or use my MSN, AOL or YM. Cheers, hope I could help and good luck with your new/next car... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 You start your post with "Be Honest". This site is not staffed with Subaru plants. My ego does not depend on anyone else owning a LegGT. My wife spent $41k on an Audi A6 Quattro wagon and it was the most beautiful pile of S..t we ever owned. Even when we could get small things like the gas gauge to work, our $40k+ USD car had a softer than soft suspension and was nose heavy to the point of being unsafe. If you are motivated by your peers ideas of a high class car and more interested in "posing", buy the Audi, look good, drive like grandma and spend alot of time in rental cars. If you are motivated by the joy of driving and want to spend money on fun life experiences vs used car maintenance, buy the LegGT. I am guessing you are quite young. Put great wheels on the LegGT, keep it very clean and the girls will be just as impressed with the LegGT, maybe more. The A6 is really a car for older people that won't or cannot spend $ for Benz/BMW/Lexus. If your going to buy used, get a used M3 or 325 Coupe. Don't give up all the advantages of a LegGT for an Audi A6. I could even understand considering a used Audi S4, but not an A6. Which car will perform the best and be the most pleasure to live with is not a question in this comparison. The LegGT is the best car performance, sport and trouble free choice, hands down. The question you must answer to make your decision is what do you need from the car and your peers to feel good and enjoy life. Grasshopper has spoken. I own a LegGT/Ltd wagon with 18s, a new Range Rover and I have owned Audi, Benz and BMW. I have purchased BMWs for my sons in the past three years. I took a chance with the LegGT and I have no regrets. I enjoy my LegGT more than my last BMW 325 with sport suspension and high perf 18s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 MtnSub... Your AUDI A6 Quattro was a SW and either 2.8 or 3.0. Yet the A6 2.7T manual with sport package is just as good and sporty as the S4. I also agree with you, hands down when it comes to comparison, go LGT... (I am still looking for a great discount on a Garnet Red Wagon Limited 5 MT!!!) Cheers, Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Fzanetti, I did see the 2.7"T", but I missed the MT sport package. Regardless, this car has way too much weight over the front axle. I also thought there was a critical Turbo problem that Audi was only partially supporting for original owners. I do accept your point that the A6 2.7T was much better than the standard A6 grandma car. The question that started this post goes back to the issue of what does this young man want from his car choise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Exactly, IMHO and in yours as well, it would a no brainer, Legacy GT for sure!!! Brand new car, full warranty and plus the reliability of Subies is just amazing!!! Good luck man with your new car purchase!!! Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epitaph Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 Honestly with your driving record get the Legacy i ha. Ive never heard anything along those lines before:rolleyes: Good luck on your choice, if you wait until football season I come down for several UM games a year. I'll bring it down early in the season & possibly we can meet up;) And no I would never park it around the OB......Taxi only to the games. Word. Jus let me know in advance, theres a car show everyfriday around here.... Seeing how you're looking at a used Audi leads me to believe that you have a limited budget. Sure do, nothing more then 22k Epitaph, Did you wanna buy my S4??? heheheheh Couple of advices I would give it to you: First of all, both cars are amazing cars, and each has its own characteristic and driving style. S4's are more bulletproof and reliable than A6 2.7T, but you pay the price for it.. And yet, can't compare with LGT, which is way more durable and reliable... Yes, Audi with either APR or MTM mods (Stage II I got) are a blast!!!! Mine is putting out at about 340~350hp @ crank just with an ECU upgrade and bipipes...The fastest I was able to go in that baby was 13.2 1/4 mile. Now if you go to Stage III, which includes R04 turbos (same as the RS4), putting down 460hp @ crank, I ve seen an S4 doing 1/4 mile in 11.00 secs!!!!!!!! (we are talking 4~5K to mod it though!!!) However I have driven a LGT Stage II Cobb with a couple of modded pipes and the thing is really a blaaaaaast to drive, I have posted the same comparison on another alias, can't remember where now, but the weight difference ~about 3200 lbs instead of over 2 tons on the S4~, the way the Boxster engine is mounted to give better gravity center, all the options you have to mod your LGT and it's waaaaaaay cheaper than Audi.... Reason why I still have my S4? Maybe it's because I am stupid, nah it's just because I haven't found a buyer yet... It's an awesome car, but maintenance is awful and insane if out of warranty... Anything that brakes, get your pocket ready, and over a brand new LGT? No comparisons!!! If you ask me about AUDI QUATTRO, yes I would say it's a little better both handling and in snow than the symmetrical AWD from Subbie, but all the cost benefit, it's ridiculous to compare those 2 cars, IMHO buy a LGT!!! So all this applies to the A6 2.7T which is basicaly the same drivetrain, with a little slower auto (if you get auto trannie) and worse suspension and wheels (if you don't get the sport package). If you need any additional comments or comparisons, pls PM me dude I ll be glad to go over some things with you or use my MSN, AOL or YM. Cheers, hope I could help and good luck with your new/next car... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Thats what i call a nice reply, lol. Im not a big S4 fan, i like bigger sized cars..but 13.2 is niiiiccceeee, my goal is 13.4 (id be happy with 13.6) If i have any questions i'll definitly send you a PM. You start your post with "Be Honest". This site is not staffed with Subaru plants. My ego does not depend on anyone else owning a LegGT. My wife spent $41k on an Audi A6 Quattro wagon and it was the most beautiful pile of S..t we ever owned. Even when we could get small things like the gas gauge to work, our $40k+ USD car had a softer than soft suspension and was nose heavy to the point of being unsafe. If you are motivated by your peers ideas of a high class car and more interested in "posing", buy the Audi, look good, drive like grandma and spend alot of time in rental cars. If you are motivated by the joy of driving and want to spend money on fun life experiences vs used car maintenance, buy the LegGT. I am guessing you are quite young. Put great wheels on the LegGT, keep it very clean and the girls will be just as impressed with the LegGT, maybe more. The A6 is really a car for older people that won't or cannot spend $ for Benz/BMW/Lexus. If your going to buy used, get a used M3 or 325 Coupe. Don't give up all the advantages of a LegGT for an Audi A6. I could even understand considering a used Audi S4, but not an A6. Which car will perform the best and be the most pleasure to live with is not a question in this comparison. The LegGT is the best car performance, sport and trouble free choice, hands down. The question you must answer to make your decision is what do you need from the car and your peers to feel good and enjoy life. Grasshopper has spoken. I started off with "Be honest" because regardless of your personal standing, i still am posting a comparison on the LGT page, so i naturally assumed a few of the answers will be lgt based... As for the impressing my peers and "posing" comment, lol that almost made me laugh bro, If i wanted a higher class car i could get a BMW 528i sport, or so many other nicer "higher class cars". i personally narrowed the search down to theese two cars myself, because i like them both (esp the engines and awd). My other choices believe it or not was going to be a 03' silverado SS or an 01 Silverado 2500 with the Duramax diesel (whutchu know about torq!?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan2 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Each to his own on this call - but I'd take the warrantee if you are on a budget, because when things go wrong, you want the dealer to have to worry about it. However you also talk about the desire to mod to a certain performance level, and the Audi may be the way to go simply because you state that you want to go fast in a straight line. Modding the Subaru will toss it's warrantee out anyway, and the Subaru 5sp auto has yet to be shown to be a 1/4mile hero IIRC <fire suite on> Oh, and while already pointed out, Torque Sensing = reactive to slip = LSD. Enjoy whichever you choose. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Epitaph, no disrespect meant by my post. I can see how words like poser and grandma's car sounded condescending. This is not the first time my humor or attempt to make a post more than a drab response has come across critical. I should have used the phrase "style driven", not "poser". As stated in the previous post, if you plan to mod the LegGT, warantee is out the window. However, reliability and cost to maintain the used Audi, with its nightmare history for costly turbo destruction etc, is still an issue. I cannot see any downside to the LegGT, in this comarison, unless you find its style too bland. You did say your friends think you are crazy for considering a LegGT. There is nothing wrong with expecting style with performance. I know the new BMW5 is a great machine, but I would not buy such an ugly car (IMO). Good luck and let us know what you finally buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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