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Tuned perfect at 75k, now at 76k steering wheel hops in 3rd, 3.5-3.75k; 5EAT

Soda Popinski

By Soda Popinski
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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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would the dealership be able to diagnose it?

 

also: is 3rd gear connected to reverse in a 5EAT... because reverse sometimes "knocks" as I back up. That I've felt the entire time I've had my car. As it backs up it feels like someone thumps the floor of the car once a second (IE: backup out of a parking spot, etc).

 

So... vibration in idle speed when steering wheel is turned at or near lock, as I'm maneuvering around the driveway in the morning (after 5 minutes of warming up)

 

Vibration in 3rd gear when going at or near WOT from 45mph +.

 

I can avoid the vibration if I lift my foot off the accelerator during this power band, and then go WOT after that range...

 

 

How else can I troubleshoot the torque conv?

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fishbone Grand Master

fishbone

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It repeatedly knocks when you reverse? Some of us 5EATers get a clunk from the rear diff when we put it in reverse, but it's singular and it can be cured with a set of rear diff bushings. If you get constant knocking, it sounds to me more and more diff/tranny related. Well, I suppose it still doesn't discount a bearing or halfshaft.
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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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since day 1... when I put it in reverse and say, back out of a parking stall... it feels like someone takes their fist and 'thumps' the floor once a second. It's not every time but if I have to back up and turn the wheel a bit, it can do it. It doesn't interfere with operation, it just goes thump, thump thump thump. It's not very loud.

 

That video I posted is me isolating the violent shake that happens from cruise speed to passing speed or WOT as it downshifts to 3rd, or if I'm in manual, IN 3rd.

 

I'm going to do wheel bearings and dif fluid change this weekend if I can.

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frank_ster Grand Master

frank_ster

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so you say the car has been tuned ?

well i was having some similiar issues with mine where gear change would cause exact same jumping, and since your car shifts fine over that rpm would tell me the tranny is ok.

 

and i very much doubt its the torque converter, because it engages in other gears too.

 

my first thought is the maf, if they did any scaling to it, the maf dictates the line pressure of the tranny.

 

would atf flush and fill help .. meh maybe but i don't like the idea of that actually making any difference.

 

does the car do it when cold also ?

 

by any chance could you return your tune back to stock for a few days for testing proposes ?

Now that's thinking out of the boxer!:lol:

fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader

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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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I know they put the tune in the AccessPORT. I could technically reflash to the previous one, and see. Good call. I know Pete at EFI Logic said he put the car up to 19 PSI and the car got pissed off.

 

So he scaled it back a tad and it was holding fine. I had zero problems on the rally. It wasn't until the axle situation that I cannot just floor it from 0-100 anymore.

 

 

 

on a side note: how much torque does the OEM TC hold? Pete tuned mine from 230 - 285 torque... and this is a 5EAT

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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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Well I'm going to have the tech sit in the car tomorrow and try a few tests that I noticed are 'questionable' performance issues with the shifting.

 

2nd gear shifting into 3rd... the engine races and bangs into 3rd, enough to notice (transmission shop called it "flaring")

 

Manual 3rd @ 45 or 65 mph, for 30 seconds, then go WOT results in violent shaking of the steering wheel

 

4th or 5th gear, @ highway speed, in "D" mode, accelerate to passing speed and bring up to 80-90 mph, results in heavy shaking but resolves once upshift occurs.

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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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almost feels like the clutch is pushed in... like in a manual. in 3rd. The rpms go up very quickly in 3rd almost like the tranny wants to skip over 3rd alltogether.

 

I can duplicate this in a manual 5 speed by slightly pressing in the clutch while accelerating in 3rd gear. not enough to completely engage, but enough to make the rpms race higher than normal.

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doccrowley Experienced

doccrowley

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almost feels like the clutch is pushed in... like in a manual. in 3rd. The rpms go up very quickly in 3rd almost like the tranny wants to skip over 3rd alltogether.

 

I can duplicate this in a manual 5 speed by slightly pressing in the clutch while accelerating in 3rd gear. not enough to completely engage, but enough to make the rpms race higher than normal.

 

Just replaced my tranny (twice) for this same slipping issue. Car came back from new turbo, injectors, fuel pump and tune and the slipping had started while they road tuned the car.

 

Bought a used tranny from an '05 to put in my '06 5EAT. Doesn't work! Don't switch model years! Bought another used '06 to put in car. Smooth as butter! Also bought the Hex1 mods 5EAT modded valve body and center diff bushing kit and it is great!

 

Sounds like your third gear is toast. And, for what it's worth, don't go with an IPT tranny. Talk to ClimberD instead about tranny options.

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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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OK back from the dealership. Huge shout out to Jet (I think that's how he spelled it) and Joe at Bertera in Hartford.

 

the reason for the flare between 2nd and 3rd and the loss in power of 3 w/chatter is that the clutch pack of 3/4 is bad, or failing.

 

reverse knock is something different, he thinks brakes for some reason, as it only taps when I have my foot on the brake pedal. Whatever, another project for another day.

 

They challenged my decision to do a tranny flush, because there is clutch material in the fluid, brown as it is, it's not too thick. And the tranny is working NOW even though under load is less than desireable. The risk is that new fluid comes in, scrubs the tranny out and it no longer works because it was being held together by whatever it's held by now. makes sense. That's like cleaning a cracked window frame and suddenly that cracked piece falls out because the gunk was holding it in. I get it.

 

The transmission works perfectly less one problem WHEN DRIVING NORMALLY, IN 'S' MODE, the shift between 2nd into 3rd takes about 2 seconds and banks slightly into 3rd. The reason for this is that I'm not exceeding the horse power and torque range of the factory design of the 5EAT. Only when I go WOT or drive it hard, IE: passing on a highway, or spirited driving. This makes sense. I can get by for now, but on borrowed time because I can't imagine that metal flakes in the tranny fluid with 40k miles on it is helping the situation.

 

Jet said my options are the following:

 

Replace with an OEM subaru 5EAT - most expensive option, 6 hours labor @ 100/hr. + tax

Get a used 08 5EAT from a junk yard - unknown history, self transportation, 6 hours abor @ 100/hr.

 

Replace the clutch pack that's failing and have others inspected - heavy labor and probably poor decision especially if I don't take advantage of overlapping labor and upgrade the internals

 

Replace all cutch packs with 'stage 2' packs from IPT or similar heavy duty or performance vendors - may be labor intensive, might make other unchanged components fail due to mismatch of parts

 

Replace with IPT complete 5eat (dunno if they have core charge) and TC, less expensive than OEM 5EAT, vendor offers statistics of superior product under increased power that the OEM unit is not rated for. comes with valve body already - possible core refund?

 

Swap the 5EAT with a 6-speed STi, but may require changing other things beyond just the tranny, like a center dif / etc? - we didn't get into this more.

 

Other options like selling or trading the car in, I can't imagine that helps resale value.

 

I've got 6000 left to pay on the car, 76,000 miles.

 

Dealership w/modded 08 LGT will only offer 7500 for it tops. Without working transmission they don't want it.

 

Carmax offered 5000 because of the accidental history (carmax buys and resells cars, but those with a history or accident will end up wholesale or parted/auctioned).

 

@ Doccrowley, thanks for the info, it's very valuable, I'll contact ClimberD shortly to see what he has/does/did?

 

Looks like what inflicted or exaserbated (sp?) the problem is the tune that put it beyond the operational range of the OEM clutch packs in the tranny. I hope someone reads this before going over 250awhp and 280tq in a 5EAT. Go stage 2 clutch packs or upgrade your tranny first!

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rao Grand Master

rao

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Wait, so a transmission fluid flush won't fix the problem :confused:

 

Shocking :lol:

 

As for the options, you need to take a step back and figure out the big picture FIRST.

 

Since you aren't going to be doing this work yourself you are facing a pretty large bill.

 

I would buy another transmission (don't be so paranoid about used parts, you know all the history of yours and it is a POS ;) ) and have it installed. Then you can decide if you want to repair yours if you want.

Rob

 

 

 

IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT

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Soda Popinski Mentor

Soda Popinski

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I was considering using my mom's car now that it just sits and doing the repair with my dad as a project with that IPT type repair kit.

 

Listen man, I know I beat on the car, I'm not stupid, I know my choices were always a risk. I just like to know WHY things fail, and how they work, so I can either do it myself and learn, or help someone else prevent that same failure.

 

What do you mean about the history of my car and it's a POS? I think my car is just fine... I bought a turbo with the expectation and anticpation of driving it flat out all the time. Things failed because I literally jumped into the performance car scene head first with limited mechanical knowledge of it's systems. Since then I've learned a ton. I learned even more from this website because of other people's failures, and value it's opinions...

 

I know damn well I can just sell the car as is to some other kid, take the money and run and get something like a BWM or other car built to handle my style of driving, but I fell in love with the 08 body style of the LGT and it's awd and 'fun' factor.

 

That said, I actually welcome criticizm. I love being forced to learn a new system because it makes me more in tune with my car and cars in general. I only ask because I don't want to bitch, but instead, want to learn.

 

As far as the used parts/AA/AZ stuff... it's just popular opinion. I've been told countless times that AA/AZ sell knockoffs that aren't as good as OEM. Take that for whatever it is, it made sense to me at the time, but then again I'm not intimately familiar with what brand names make what component, IE: Brake calipers. I'm sure I can get a good hamburger at McDonalds, but I'd rather get one from the grocery store because it's more likely to be made with better quality meat. I apply that same logic to car parts because I put faith into the ideals that OEM parts are made to meet the same standard as the car as it was delivered to me from the factory, and not to just 'save money.'

 

It also goes along with my mentality and mindset that I'd rather pony up for the better item, as you get what you pay for. My dad always told me not to be afraid to want the best and not settle for 2nd place. Which was good advice. Replacing a transmission clutch pack is something I want to do ONCE, not twice... so I'll go with the better product ranked by people who have used it rather than just a price tag.

 

I value your imput Rao, don't get me wrong. I'm here to learn. I just drive with a lead foot and expect my car to perform as it was sold to me as being able to do, or up to the 3rd party vendor's claims.

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