PKs17 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 actually, we re talking about the 07-08 TL-S. It was rated at around 14.1 quarter and 5.1-6.0 0-60, and just because a car does a certain time on the quartermile, that doesnt mean its going to be fast in real situations. These turbo4's need time to spool up, so its easy to get caught off guard by a slower/heavier car but has alot of torque on demand(larger Discplacement engines) Plus, on our AWD's after the first 60 feet or so, we really lose all advantage, and even are at a disadvantage with the extra weight and drivetrain losses. I like the leggy Gt alot more then the TL-s. Its just that im looking for a gt wagon with manual tranny, and its very rare in canada. I found one only 45K miles, but it was heavily rusted underneath, and the dealer didnt have any service records. Mainly the diff case, driveshafts, swaybar and the exhaust pipe almost had holes in it already, not to mention the engine bay had alot of rusty bolts. Is that normal? because my wrx is 8 years old, been taken to the mountains for sking every year, and it still is in better shape then the 5 year old leggy gt i went to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I always cracked up when at the dragstrip and people told me "AWD cars might be fast from a takeoff, but they really lose ground once under speed".... Just not true.... yeah, the 1/4 trap speeds might look slow compared to the times, but that's because a good launch is what gives good times. The only cars that would "run me down" at the track were ones that had ridiculously more power than I had anyway. A stock LGT might have a little time to spool on the highway while above boost threshold if someone isn't ready for it, but the new TL I drove didn't seem so snappy on the throttle either however. TL to stock LGT it's probably a driver's race, TL to WRX or STI, bye bye TL... "Spooling up" should be as easy as downshifting and mashing the throttle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Time to spool? No torque? Extra weight for AWD? You've been mislead. Stock turbo LGTs spool very quickly. I can't even say there's any lag compared to some turbo cars. Considering you're in the right gear, plant your foot and you'll get to illegal speeds relatively quickly. Look at the torque numbers these cars put down. Unmodified, they make 250 ft lbs at the crank. Stock TL-S is rated at 256ft lbs ATC. Throw some exhaust parts and a tune at a LGT, and you can see 270 - 290 ft lbs at the wheels. Extra weight for AWD? How much do two front axles, two transmission mounted differentials, and probably about 6 inches of driveshaft weigh? Maybe 50lbs? Search for Subaru Symmetrical AWD. There's no transfer case or extra driveshafts that add a lot of weight like other AWD setups. Stock, my 05 LTD Sedan is reported to weigh in at 3365 lbs. At the shop, my car weighed in at 3335 with some exhaust upgrades, .75 tank of gas, heavy 18in wheels, and about 40 lbs of crap in the trunk (not counting the spare and jack). If you want a LGT wagon, wait for the right one to come along and get it! People on this forum have traveled thousands of miles to get the right car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 TL to stock LGT it's probably a driver's race, TL to WRX or STI, bye bye TL... "Spooling up" should be as easy as downshifting and mashing the throttle... You do realize that a stock LGT is faster than a stock WRX don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 You do realize that a stock LGT is faster than a stock WRX don't you? I didn't... Links? The road tests I saw didn't say that, but I'm always up for new info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 You want a lgt wagon yet you test drove a 07-08 tl because ...? It looked like a wagon? Also why get the legacy when to you the tl is way more better than the subie. Doesn't make any sense. Just buy the fwd TL. By the way did you go to the acura forum and asked "what do you think of a subaru legacy gt" too? What are they saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKs17 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Such a defensive bunch in here. Lol thats ok, its like that in all the other forums ive been in. I explained eariler that i need to purchase a car that can be fun, but also do family duties. So that is why i test drove the TL. Its more roomy and comfortable then a legacy, but at the same time handles good with a silky smooth v6, and comes in stick. Sounds like a pretty fun family car if you ask me. Sure it doesnt have awd. I would say thats the only thing the legacy gt has over the TL. Anyone disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeslgt Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 i have a lgt with 5eat and i've driven the tl fwd (not sh-awd) the fwd tl felt pretty heavy and boaty to me. i'm sure the sh-awd is quite a bit better. this particular tl only had 55k when i test drove it. i understand how you feel about finding a lgt wagon, now if you don't mind softer handling like can be found in the tl, maybe the outback xt would be a better choice and more available, the suby 2.5 turbo really is more responsive than you think, try driving one again. the ;defensiveness; is just reacting to the claims of tl highway power over the turbo subys, which really is incorrect, i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sure it doesnt have awd. I would say thats the only thing the legacy gt has over the TL. Anyone disagree? Completely disagree, unless you are planning on keeping both cars stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The Subaru is a piece of junk, everybody knows this. The Acura is a finely crafted piece of machinery. /thread Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Such a defensive bunch in here. Lol thats ok, its like that in all the other forums ive been in. I explained eariler that i need to purchase a car that can be fun, but also do family duties. So that is why i test drove the TL. Its more roomy and comfortable then a legacy, but at the same time handles good with a silky smooth v6, and comes in stick. Sounds like a pretty fun family car if you ask me. Sure it doesnt have awd. I would say thats the only thing the legacy gt has over the TL. Anyone disagree? I'm finding your fact finding mission harder and harder to believe, especially with 2400 posts on a Civic site.. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/garage/172173-acura-zdx-wtf-2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasAyinde Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I see we have an internet detective on our hands http://www.netdetectives.freeservers.com/privateeye.jpg Good work SSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock2534 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The hardest thing with regards to the subaru is finding one. When mine was totaled in may I searched the local and some non-local dealers looking for an 08-09 with no luck. Most didn't have any, and when if they did it was usually an 05 which I didn't want. I also was not very keen on travelling too far for one just in case issues arose soon after purchase, I wanted to be able to go back to where I bought it in the event of failure. So you should be prepared for not being able to even find what you want unless you are willing to travel a good distance for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKs17 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yah, the problem is i live in canada, so pickings are harder then in the US. Also, i dont want to buy anything out of my province because it will be a rust bucket for sure. Ill keep my eyes peeled anyhow. And yes i am a member of 8th gen civic(I used to own a 07 civic, and i am also a member of naosioc, as i currently own a wrx. What category would you rate the legacy gt limited, better then a TL-S, besides the AWD. You cant say the legacy has a better drivetrain because it has a lousy clutch, and transmission. Not to mention expensive and faulty wheel bearingsx4 of them to make matters worse. If you havent tried a honda gearbox, then your missing out. Its light years ahead of subaru in that department. Interior wise is in the eye of the beholder. But if your caranddriver, motortrend, or roadandtrack, they ll agree that the TL interior is a step above subaru. Braking is done with Brembo 4 pot calipers on the TL, 3.5L engine with a larger powerband then any turbo car could imagine. Much better resale value. Now with all this said, i would still rather take the legacy GT. I love the engineering of subaru vehicles, but i just want to point out that it is far from a perfect vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sounds like the Legacy is a nightmare which has been proven to be true over and over again. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I don't agree that the 3.5L powerband is better, I guess if you like spending your time near redline... http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=686783 http://sohc.vtec.net//article_files/686783/07vs04tl_6mt.gif TL + Nice for family sedan + Quick for a typical family sedan + Build quality is very nice - Feels porky to drive - throttle response is that of a family sedan - Virtually no aftermarket support Legacy GT + Is a WRX in the guise of a family sedan + Handling is very nice, yet ride is still cushy + Stock performance is good, but aftermarket support can make it awesome + Clutch is fine at stock levels + Transmission is fine at stage 3+ levels if you're not an idiot - Build quality is nice, but definitely not as good as Honda/Acura - Clutch will need replacing at higher than stock levels if you abuse it - Rear wheel bearings have an extended warranty from Subaru Buy the TL if you want to drive around in a pretty nice car and are happy not seeking performance parts. Buy the LGT if you want to drive around in a pretty nice car and think you'll get the upgrade bug and want to be able to add a considerable amount of power fairly easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yah, the problem is i live in canada, so pickings are harder then in the US. Also, i dont want to buy anything out of my province because it will be a rust bucket for sure. Ill keep my eyes peeled anyhow. And yes i am a member of 8th gen civic(I used to own a 07 civic, and i am also a member of naosioc, as i currently own a wrx. What category would you rate the legacy gt limited, better then a TL-S, besides the AWD. You cant say the legacy has a better drivetrain because it has a lousy clutch, and transmission. Not to mention expensive and faulty wheel bearingsx4 of them to make matters worse. If you havent tried a honda gearbox, then your missing out. Its light years ahead of subaru in that department. Interior wise is in the eye of the beholder. But if your caranddriver, motortrend, or roadandtrack, they ll agree that the TL interior is a step above subaru. Braking is done with Brembo 4 pot calipers on the TL, 3.5L engine with a larger powerband then any turbo car could imagine. Much better resale value. Now with all this said, i would still rather take the legacy GT. I love the engineering of subaru vehicles, but i just want to point out that it is far from a perfect vehicle. Yep, the Subaru is a piece of garbage, everything about the car sucks. It's slow, has an awful powerband, the interior is cheap, our clutches suck, they fall apart.... wow, why would anyone buy a Subaru? I think you should buy the Acura -- okay, okay, I'll stop being so crass. You're right, the Honda gearboxes are amazing. I said that in an earlier post; they're right up there with some of BMWs gearboxes. I drove a buddy's Civic SI and the gearbox was an excellent piece, minus the awfully light clutch. I like the Acura interior. It's simple, it works and things make sense, It's typical Honda in design and layout (which is good). You keep knocking the Subaru's powerband, but it's really not that bad; especially with some simple software. I found the stock vehicle to be a bit sluggish at low RPMs, but I was used to a turbo engine that made max torque at 1,800 RPM on my previous vehicle. Just because the Acura has Brembos doesn't mean it's a better stopping vehicle. The Legacy actually posts better stopping distances. Nobody here is saying the Subaru is perfect. Look at many of my posts; I b!tch and moan about so many of the Subaru's traits and characteristics. With that said, I'd take the Subaru hands down over the TL any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I honestly think we're comparing the wrong cars here. THE Legacy GTL is best matched by the Acura TSX, for the Acura line up. Both in finish, features and price. In which case it's a close call to getting one over the other and you buy the Legacy for AWD. If you're comparing to the TL, the TL is second best selling sport sedan for years, only 2nd to the ego boosting BMW 3 series which wankers buy. If you're comparing the current GTL to the TL you need to factor in a few things. The TL has a better tranny, better motor, better MPG, better engineering and true innovation. IE rev matching, vtec, etc. If you match the GTL to the TL SH-AWD it will spank the sh!t out of the GTL in everything but straight line speed. It's a bi.gger car. The Legacy is a small sedan but since it's AWD doesn't suffer from the torque steering of putting almost 300hp to the front wheels. I'd suggest after 250hp it should have gone rwd. Subi has done nothing to improve their AWD platform. Acura's SH-AWD is something Subi should have released themselves and only puts half the features the SH-AWD has into their STI. So from a simple features list, the Acura TL beats the Subi. From a motor stand point, Acura again and from the tranny hands down it's Acura. Honda is able to develop more power per liter of motor naturally. Subi has to cheat with boost. When Acura opts to boost a motor they do something innovation, RSX, first variable boost production motor. Subi should have done this to allow for better MPG on their legacy. IE only give you boost when you get on the gas, and idle the turbo when crusing. Would allow them to get 31mpg on the GTL. They dont, because at the heart of the company their not innovative. Let's all get real. Subi owners are a particular group and love their cars. This is great! But they've never built great motors. They're all down on power and technology wise about 10-15 years behind the times. Honda has had F1 experience and built a super car. Their NSX and S2000 are gold standards in true and pure sports cars. Even Subis WRX STI sounds like crap after 40-50K. Turning into a truck. I'm a Honda fan boy. Why? They build better cars, in every way. Their sales reflect it as do the awards that follow their cars. Go read what car and driver say about Honda vehiles. Heck the S2000 made the top 10 cars to drive before you die. Not the 300hp STI. This says something. I think we often focus on 0-60 or quarter mile times. When in fact a car is so much more then that. The Legacy in the Honda lineup would match the Accord best, due to the fact the Accord comes as a base model. The Legacy GTL is like the Accord v6 fully loaded. Still I would buy the accord over the legacy - it's a better car. So OP, I think this comes down to Legacy vs. TL-S as a choice. AWD or not? If you want AWD you have to get into the legacy or TL SH-AWD. On it's face the TL-S is a faster car after 60mph, with a higher top speed, better mpg - personally averaging 31mpg on a 1600 mile trip. The ride is of slightly nicer feel and the car is bigger inside. The motor is a dream. It's rev happy stock and is a joy all the way to red. I cannot say any subi I've driven likes getting near red line. Take one to the track and it hesitates. You need to get them re-programed to operate the way a honda does from the factory. I was going to buy an Acura TL, but my wife has wanted the GTL for years now and happy wife = happy life. What the TL has that no subi has, beyond the STI, is a race inspired experience. It's in Honda's DNA. It's in everything they do. Unfortunately it's not in subis. They build some fast cars and if you're going to look at the STI it's fast. But the top end isn't there and on the track less powered hondas will keep up and beat them. Best of luck on your search. You couldn't go wrong with either. I'd buy a Honda over a Subi any day of the week. EDIT - meant RDX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The hardest thing with regards to the subaru is finding one. When mine was totaled in may I searched the local and some non-local dealers looking for an 08-09 with no luck. Most didn't have any, and when if they did it was usually an 05 which I didn't want. I also was not very keen on travelling too far for one just in case issues arose soon after purchase, I wanted to be able to go back to where I bought it in the event of failure. So you should be prepared for not being able to even find what you want unless you are willing to travel a good distance for it. We live in a town of 220k people. In 4 days of research I found a GTL in good shape and got it for trade in value. I traveled 10 miles. I hear similar 'I couldn't find a car for 500 miles' bs on other forums about other cars. I think it's a buy problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Honda is able to develop more power per liter of motor naturally. Subi has to cheat with boost. When Acura opts to boost a motor they do something innovation, RSX, first variable boost production motor. Subi should have done this to allow for better MPG on their legacy. IE only give you boost when you get on the gas, and idle the turbo when crusing. Would allow them to get 31mpg on the GTL. They dont, because at the heart of the company their not innovative. Zoinks! I fear I've become part of a Mike Judge film... I think you may be misunderstanding a few things, and I don't mean the use of they're... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesLGT Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Anyone disagree? Reliable car? Yes. Pretty car? Yes. Family car? Yes. Fun car? No TL approaches the performance of my LGT nor would beating one even make my kill list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Zoinks! I fear I've become part of a Mike Judge film... I think you may be misunderstanding a few things, and I don't mean the use of they're... Lame. Can't deal with the facts so you get me on grammar. FYI meant RDX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Reliable car? Yes. Pretty car? Yes. Family car? Yes. Fun car? No TL approaches the performance of my LGT nor would beating one even make my kill list. I guess that depends on what the measure is. So far you're comparing a heavily boosted car to a stock larger, more luxurious sedan. They're not in the same class, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 This might be helpful, legacy ranked 4th in car and drivers test of sport sedans, favoring the TSX. Think you'll find the TL-S to be even more car to the TSX. Some good points made about the GTL. The suspension rolls more than you'd expect of a performance car, and the shocks let it move. Apart from the forceful engine, there's not much sense of athletic discipline here. "GT" is a badge, not an attitude.The availability of big horsepower hasn't changed the new Legacy into something unexpected. It's very much a Subaru, confirmed on your first drive by the clattery slam of the door, just like every Subie we can remember. The doors have frameless glass, like the hardtops of old. It's difficult to control the glass when it's mostly extended up from its guides. Inside, the beltline and the dash are low. Lots of sun comes in the large windows. The shifter is accurate but uninspired. The engine, never mind its inherent balance, makes noticeable shakes and Subaru thrumming noises. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/04q4/2004_acura_tsx_vs._audi_a4_subaru_legacy_volvo_s40-comparison_tests That above sums up my experience with a stock GTL. Great in a straight line. Glad the wife likes it. Love the turbo, but a lot falls short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob-2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 THis review sums up my experience with the TL-S OP. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/07q4/the_quickest_sedans_of_2008_30_000_to_40_000-feature/2008_acura_tl_type-s_page_5 I did find the front end to be difficult under heavy throttle with steering inputs. Forget about tq steer and you're taking a different line. Note standard straight line speed tests are the same as stock gtl. MPG is slightly better. The auto has less tq steer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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