Valve Body Mods, Giant Leaps Forward!!!

[m sprank]

Welcome to the left coast. Home of the fruits and nutz.

 

Congrats on the new digs Dave. If you build it and offer free open bar, yes they will come. It is Texas. Lol.

[Anarcan]

lol Hell.. I'd make the trip down for that!

[ClimberDHexMods]

I will see about building a garage bar

[Mortal2None]

Car just turned 50K (12K or so on the CDVB) and still putting up with daily abuse. Am running a trans cooler with a trans cooler thermostat which bypasses the cooler at below 180 degrees if I remember correctly. Bigger twinscroll going in soon so I'll see if I can finally kill it.

[triple_B]

^

did you put a temp sensor/gauge on any of the lines? do you check the stock sensors to see what your temps actually are? do you track or race the car?

 

i track my car often and have been having temp issues the last 2 times.

 

now i cant find the trany temp gauge threads....sad for me.

[seabass07]

We can still work out a time to check out your car with freessm.

[ClimberDHexMods]

^

did you put a temp sensor/gauge on any of the lines? do you check the stock sensors to see what your temps actually are? do you track or race the car?

 

i track my car often and have been having temp issues the last 2 times.

 

now i cant find the trany temp gauge threads....sad for me.

 

Installing a temp gauge into the transmission system is probably one of the easiest gauge installs you can do, especially if you already have a boost gauge and know how to install that. Many of us, or myself, can give you any information you may need.

[triple_B]

i have already put TWO temp sensors in the atf lines (hot and cold side). cooler is infront of rad on driver side, half covered by bumper beam

 

they went in before my transgo VB mod. temp can creap up a bit under freeway sprints. but will cool down quickly as long as im at speed

 

a lot of stop and go on 70+ degree days it will climb to 210 and really wont go down.

 

last week at the track on 85 degree day it hit 240 after 15 mins. on straight it stopped accelerating at 105 in 4th at WOT(when it would normally hit 125).

 

a few months back i came accross some 5eat, tranny, cooler, line pressure threads. now i cant find them.

 

i would like to find out if increasing line pressure (VB mod) will increase temp as drastically as i am seeing? (pressure causes heat) if so, why have other VB modders not seen the same....or have they not done the extent i have with installing sensors and plotting temps and not to mention tracking it all day.

prior to this event i was questioning if the 160 degree temp after cooler to tranny was causing issues. but since its been warm here in Seattle finally the temp sits nicely at 190 on both sides at normal and slight sprints.

 

i did 4 track days at stage 2+ before VB mod and now 2 since VB. 50k miles now so i may have toasted the clutch packs already.

 

i should formulate everthing and start a new post. but id rather be out in the summer weather or working/driving car.

 

what i want to do is do a cheap test ant tune track day for $125 and run every route of line and cooler i can think of. currently aftermarket is first then stock to tranny.

 

no aftermarket cooler just stock

no stock just aftermarket

stock 1st

aftermarket 1st

 

if the tranny gets hot and i supper cool aft with electric fan on cooler can i cause issues with drastic heat shift as cool aft reenters tranny?

 

the in and out lines on tranny are so close. where is the fluid routed to/from?

 

better yet, id rather just have a beer with you and chat you into madness.

 

ill be curious if the added cooler size, distance, capacity and pressure drop are good/bad/indifferent. a friend of friend has a line pressure sensor so i could try that.

 

or maybe my VB mod attempt has something missing.

Edited July 12, 2012 by triple_B

[seabass07]

The vb mod will not increase temps. Your numbers are as high as what I was seeing without a tranny cooler in 85+ weather after several back to back pulls. I don't think you should plan out anything until you compare the temps your gauge is seeing with the stock sensors. I think I remember your sensors being off by a significant amount when we tested it before.

[triple_B]

^

you are correct. one sensor is off by 60 degrees on the gauge because it is from a different manufacutre, resistance is different. but the test with you showed it to be accurate at 100 and 190 (actuall temp). later temp test at startup and all ranges have shown the same.

 

im 90% confident with the sensor/guage setup now so im looking at more cooling on the track and the best way to set it up.

 

i wish i had the guages in before the VB while on the track. that would have solved most of this.

 

also what are the affects of line pressure increase and affects to that pressure and flow rate as i add coolers? i think it was being discussed in the threads i cant find that i mentioned above.

 

as ghetto as it seems ive been thinking of taking a clear piece of tubing and place it inline with a piece of small wire or dental floss inside of it to wiggle in the flow and see if it changes as the temps increase.

but then again i can tell that there is flow as the temp will come down with regard to speed and abuse.

but the clear tube is just vinyl so it wont take the heat well so it could get messy.

 

ill be in touch about meeting up.

Edited July 12, 2012 by triple_B

[frank_ster]

i like the idea of external cooler first then rad..

 

the idea being get rid of excess heat .. then the rad will nomilize temp to be at 180 deg about ideal temp.

 

edit :90% of the heat is produced from the torque converter iw working ( not locked up)

 

so 1/4 mile runs and auto cross would make the most heat. expecially on the 05-07 5 eats. the 08+ have lock up ability in 2nd and up. and tends to lock up more often.

 

it is difficult to explain a way for you to see this first hand since the tcc engages under most borring situations.

 

but if you go lets say 40 mpg and put it into manual 5th and then floor it the temps should jump up. since the tcc will unlock to allow the car to accelerate.

vs if you go 40 mph in 3rd maintain speed untill the tcc engages ( you feel it when you give gradual throttle and relaease the tach will follow the cars speed ) and then accelerate on the limit of where the tcc will disengage. ( try it a few times you will notice at 1/2 throttle or where ever it will stay locked in.

then the temps won't move but yet your accelerating faster.

Edited July 12, 2012 by frank_ster

[seabass07]

also what are the affects of line pressure increase and affects to that pressure and flow rate as i add coolers? i think it was being discussed in the threads i cant find that i mentioned above.

 

 

I don't think that has been discussed yet if I'm reading your question right. Are you asking whether the valve body would affect the flow of atf across the cooler? I am curious about that. Would upped line pressure cause the fluid to move through the cooler faster?

[triple_B]

I don't think that has been discussed yet if I'm reading your question right. Are you asking whether the valve body would affect the flow of atf across the cooler? I am curious about that. Would upped line pressure cause the fluid to move through the cooler faster?

 

yes, in both parts;

 

would increased pressure cause qiucker flow causing less cooling time?

 

and/or

 

would increased pressure be lost (returned to normal) with the addition of volume, distance and restriction of added cooler?

[frank_ster]

yes, in both parts;

 

would increased pressure cause qiucker flow causing less cooling time?

 

and/or

 

would increased pressure be lost (returned to normal) with the addition of volume, distance and restriction of added cooler?

 

flow through a radiator .. if as you say less cooling time in the rad however there would be more fluid cooled less ! .. so it realy doesn't matter .. if it flows slow it could cool more but less vollume be cooled.

 

anything causing heat in a auto tranny is the torque converter.

[fishbone]

Most good radiators are not flow restrictors and do not affect line pressure, unless you run 30 feet of higly flexible rubber line to and fro.

[frank_ster]

^ but the question is does the flow to the tranny cooler change with the valve body modification ..

 

answer .. it doesn't matter to actual cooling .. regardless the flow. unless its realy bad.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Flow rate is determined by the ATF pump speed, VB should make no difference to cooling, and if anything should help take a little edge off your temps. Edited July 13, 2012 by ClimberD@HexMods

[frank_ster]

^ well its a variable displacement pump. ie it pumps enough to make the pressure wanted.

typically higher pressure = more flow.

but not sure of where the oil comes from on most gm cars the oil leaving the torque converter gets dirverted to the cooler. since thats is where the heat is created.

the flow to the torqueconverter on a gm is passed trough two orafices one in the torqueconverter clutch and the other at the tcc engage solonoid.

when the tcc is engaged the flow is actually allowed to flow out faster bypassing the second orafice. this causes a bias to make the tcc clutch engage.

 

the oil returining from the cooler is then sent to the planetary gear sets at the rear of the tranny.

 

 

ultimately the temps can be reduced if the tcc could engage more often.

[seabass07]

^ well its a variable displacement pump. ie it pumps enough to make the pressure wanted.

typically higher pressure = more flow.

 

This is what made me curious about it. But as you said, increased flow would just cool more fluid a bit less. The net heat removed would be the same in this situation.

[Crossing509]

When I installed my F1 my tranny cooler sprung a leak. That might indicate higher pressure.

[mwm5094]

So quick question, just figured I would post this here:

 

A few weeks ago under light load in traffic a sound developed that sounds like the driveshaft is smacking the bottom of the car. I just figured the trans bushings were a little soft so I just had plans to change it. Last night I went out to a meet and on the way home I was driving it pretty hard with a few other friends (in different cars). After about 15 mins of driving it hard we came to several lights and almost every time I heard this noise and discovered it was my first to second shift. I took it easy for the rest of the journey (about 20 mins) and when I got close to my house I tried to make the noise happen again and couldn't. I checked the trans fluid (at night so it was hard to see) but it looked like it was super low which was weird because I checked it the other day and it was high. I checked it cold this morning at it was super high, so I drove it to work normally and checked it when I got there, right in between L and F on hot (I am checking it while the car is running in P after engaging each gear). I do have the F1 VB, so my question is this; is my trans starting to go? Should I do a TCU reset? Or is it just that my trans fluid temp levels get too hot during aggressive driving? (I just bought a trans cooler under that assumption) I also figured it would be in my best interest to change the fluid even though it was just done about 10k ago.

 

Thanks for the insight

[frank_ster]

one bang or multiple bangs ?

[mwm5094]

Multiple very quickly like a machine gun.

[frank_ster]

it actually does it on mine when accelerating like an old man. but doesn't always do it. and its on the 1-2 shift only.

 

i don't think the tranny is dammaged or anything bad.

 

but making that noise is not good either.

 

why is it doing it ? well typically auto trannys do that when a shift is taking to long.

 

it could be temperature related mostly because the computer is compensating for the temperature.

 

a tcu reset is the easiest thing to do, so try that first.

[mwm5094]

Awesome, thanks for the info. Ill update with results.