snow+donuts+low speed+high rpm= fun+stinky cabin..why??

[Dutch Eagle]

@mwiener2: Love you too mate.

 

Hard eh, to have a normal discussion.

[kaz98gt]

Hey I thought you didn't care!

 

Just FYI, I mentioned it before, I never did get this behavior in a torsen equipped Audi. It is a slightly different system than the viscous, and I am not sure what that has to do with it.

 

You are saying you cannot reproduce this with your 4EAT or you can?

 

From what I remember last year, I got a distinct clutch-like smell from donuts with my subaru. And yep, I'm keeping that in mind if I do take the audi out for a spin; right now I just want to isolate the smell, and signs are pointing to driver error engaging the clutch on snow. I'd rather see it for myself, and I'd want to find where the smell is coming from on my car too.

 

OH NOES! I CARE! I don't care about the bullshit arguing going on where people get offended, I care about hunting down the problem and learning about it. Engineer at heart

[Dutch Eagle]

I don't care about the bullshit arguing going on where people get offended, I care about hunting down the problem and learning about it.

Cheers mate, we agree.

[mwiener2]

 

 

I'm not normally the grammar police, but after you correct the spelling of phenomenon, you might want to look up the definition ;-)

 

reading > Power6

[Dutch Eagle]

This is really a laugh....

 

 

I live in Holland.

 

I speak, write, and read fluent Dutch. (what a surpise )

 

I speak, write and read allmost fluent English.

 

I speak, write and read allmost fluent German.

 

I speak, write, and read French aprox. 80%

 

(I am busy learning Norwegian, so I can survive in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.)

 

 

Hé, and I am not bragging about it, because we simply all learn English, German, and French in school.

 

Why?

 

So we get in contact with other people on this earth, showing them we are interested and willing to learn their language and culture.

 

 

And then of áll people, an Américan is complaining about me making a few little mistakes?

 

Well, bravo mate!

 

 

Being a little more polite to someone from abroad having the decency to try and write everything down in your language would suit you more.

 

O.M.F.G.

[seabass07]

^^Remember that just because one asshole thinks we should rename french fries to freedom fries doesn't mean we all feel that way. We're not all douches.

[kaz98gt]

Cheers mate, we agree.

 

Good stuff man

 

 

Ok, so here's what I've gathered:

1) The clutch DOES NOT slip when engaged and plowing through snow, the wheels just slip because there's no load on the drivetrain and no possible way for the clutch to start slipping

2) The lack of traction causes the phenomenon that, while trying to engage the clutch from a dead stop, the clutch is slipping when in reality it's the wheels. If the car isn't moving, our natural reaction is to feather the clutch so the car doesn't bog and die.

3) Similar to number 2, the resultant hesitation with engaging the clutch causes the burning of it, leading to the acrid smell in the cabin that's distinctive clutch cooking.

 

Here's my theory, take it for what it's worth: nothing involving the AWD system or the differentials is causing the smell; it's pure driver "error", and it's in quotes because I can imagine trying to figure out if the wheels are spinning vs. the clutch and matching rpms to not bog the engine in slick snow is very, very difficult to master.

 

NOW, with that said, I'm sure there's something different at play with my automatic set-up. I had a discussion with my brother about this thread, and he said that there was the same pungent, clutch-like smell coming from the engine bay after he raced it around a local parking lot with some people. Driving hard, on and off the gas, really pushing the car. I wanted to shoot him haha, but it brought to light a good point: for my car, the same smell can be reproduced out of the snow and donuts. He's taken it to a parking lot for snownuts before, and described the exact same smell to me after the donuts. I haven't been to a parking lot to race yet, and don't intend to unless I'm on a closed course racetrack where I can really push her. So, what I'm going to do is investigate the matter further for my knowledge only, because now I'm sure there's something else at play. Why does it smell like a clutch cooking? Not sure yet, but I'm going to find out this weekend when I go home

[Power6]

OH NOES! I CARE! I don't care about the bullshit arguing going on where people get offended, I care about hunting down the problem and learning about it. Engineer at heart

 

Hey me too. Don't let an off hand comment with a winky smile throw you off.

 

I'm waiting for some snow here in Boston so I can do some more research on this.

 

kaz98gt, seems like you are on to the root of this. I think you are right the numb feeling causes one to slip the clutch unknowingly.

 

As for the automatics, I wonder what is the VTD clutch made of, and what does that smell like if it overheats?? I assume it is a wet type of clutch with some sort of friction material in there.

 

Dutch Eagle - I wrote response thinking your thing about the english language may have been directed at me, then I thought not, at any rate let me say you seem to understand the word Phenomenon just fine, which is more important than the spelling.

 

reading > Power6

 

At least I know what a Phenomenon is ;-)

[kaz98gt]

Power6, you're in Boston? I'm over at Northeastern right now...whereabouts in Boston are you?

 

And I completely understood what you meant, the thread was just getting me a little frustrated. As for the VTD clutch, what is that? I'm under the assumption that you're speaking of the center clutchpack? I could be cooking through that........hmm...

[mwiener2]

reading continues to be > Power6

[Power6]

Power6, you're in Boston? I'm over at Northeastern right now...whereabouts in Boston are you?

 

And I completely understood what you meant, the thread was just getting me a little frustrated. As for the VTD clutch, what is that? I'm under the assumption that you're speaking of the center clutchpack? I could be cooking through that........hmm...

 

Not Boston proper, I'm in Arlington, off Mass Ave.

 

The VTD is the center diff slip limiting system in the automatic trans, Variable Torque Distribution. It is computer controlled instead of the "dumb" viscous LSD in the 5MT. I am thinking it is possible that could slip a bit under massive wheelspin conditions and smell like clutch.

[Dutch Eagle]

@Power6: Don't worry man, I was talking to mr.mwiener2.

[DeltaSniper]

AT transmission here... I also get the funky smell after doing extended periods of snownuts...

 

This means that its unlikely to be the clutch.... But it kinda smells like one.

[thestratomaster]

i get the smell in my moms outback when I take it out. it's similar, but definitely a different smell.

[kaz98gt]

Not Boston proper, I'm in Arlington, off Mass Ave.

 

The VTD is the center diff slip limiting system in the automatic trans, Variable Torque Distribution. It is computer controlled instead of the "dumb" viscous LSD in the 5MT. I am thinking it is possible that could slip a bit under massive wheelspin conditions and smell like clutch.

 

 

Ok, I think we're on to something here. The center clutchpack is different on the autos when compared to the manuals? Does this hold true for the newer generations? I'm sure that there's differences in my generation at least, plus mine isn't a "symmetrical" set-up. 90/10 F-R all time, and 50/50 under slick conditions, controlled by the tcu.

 

So, I'm not alone with this. But, the center clutch would only burn up if the rear wheels are rotating at a different speed than the front. Now, given that, most of the time all 4 wheels are "freewheeling" in the snow, but how about this: at some points when traction is found, do you think that there's enough strain put on the driveline where the computer can't react quickly enough to disengage the center clutchpack and cause it to cook? Just a thought...I'm not sure how the system has changed in the later generations though.

[Dutch Eagle]

'Phenomenon' is perfectly English by the way.

 

What is wrong for instance with:

 

Summertyres on snow give a phenomenon called understeer.

 

?

[seabass07]

It's got a y in tires! damn brits!

[Max Capacity]

AT transmission here... I also get the funky smell after doing extended periods of snownuts...

 

This means that its unlikely to be the clutch.... But it kinda smells like one.

 

 

I could be wrong but, don't automatics have clutch packs ?

[fredraud]

I could be wrong but, don't automatics have clutch packs ?

 

And bands .. But they are wet.. When you burn them you get burned chicken smelling ATF

[mwiener2]

'Phenomenon' is perfectly English by the way.

 

What is wrong for instance with:

 

Summertyres on snow give a phenomenon called understeer.

 

?

 

 

you used the word correctly, but spelled it all Ebonics back in post 117. I subtly made fun of you, but apparently you (and a few others) didn't get it.

[Power6]

'Phenomenon' is perfectly English by the way.

 

What is wrong for instance with:

 

Summertyres on snow give a phenomenon called understeer.

 

?

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

mwiener2 missed the meaning noting that the AT cars have the same smell issue, with the "get your fenomenon outta here". But that doesn't mean it is not an observable occurance, which is what a Phenomenon is.

 

I guess it was just a joke that nobody got so my bad, I assumed he didn't know what it means since so many people think it means "mysterious unexplained event" its hard to even use the word in America.

[DeltaSniper]

One plausible theory that local members have told me is that the catalytic converters are giving off the "sulfur" ish smell when they get too hot... Makes some sense to me.

 

I was at a subaru snow drift meet and the the cars there that smelled like sulfur smelled like it regardless of transmission type.

 

Some other forum's discussion...

 

*Wrong Link*

 

Now if the person having the smell was running a catless exhaust, then I would throw this theory out the window.

[Dutch Eagle]

It's got a y in tires! damn brits!

You'd better have some more respect for your European ancestors Seabass.

 

We invented all languages, don't blame us.

 

Blame your great-great-grandparents what they done to it.

 

 

Damn, if we didn't sell Manhattan to the British long ago, I could have just explained to you in Dutch.

[kongzilla]

One plausible theory that local members have told me is that the catalytic converters are giving off the "sulfur" ish smell when they get too hot... Makes some sense to me.

 

I was at a subaru snow drift meet and the the cars there that smelled like sulfur smelled like it regardless of transmission type.

 

Some other forum's discussion...

 

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43708

 

Now if the person having the smell was running a catless exhaust, then I would throw this theory out the window.

 

I vote on this one.

[Power6]

One plausible theory that local members have told me is that the catalytic converters are giving off the "sulfur" ish smell when they get too hot... Makes some sense to me.

 

I was at a subaru snow drift meet and the the cars there that smelled like sulfur smelled like it regardless of transmission type.

 

Some other forum's discussion...

 

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43708

 

Now if the person having the smell was running a catless exhaust, then I would throw this theory out the window.

 

This one doesn't hold much water, the catalytic convertor won't "heat up" and give off a sulfury smell. Wheel spin and antics in the snow shouldn't cause any extra heat in the exhaust system.

 

Sulfur smell comes from the fuel not the catalytic convertor.

 

LOL at those Lexus guys, they're discussing some fuel heater snake oil to "align" the fuel molecules hahaha.