fredrik94087 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Not to be a jerk Fredrik, cuz I'm not trying to be, but you keep talking about your neutral ride. How many times have you tracked or autox'ed your car and been at the limit of grip for prolonged periods, thru sweepers, without having to worry about curbs, poles or other vehicles, where you could induce throttle steer, really feel the minute details of weight transfer on smooth pavement, dance with counter steer, and play with brake oversteer. In order to claim neutral handling, I think you have to spend some serious time at those limits and undertake serious effort dialing the car in. I think what you are describing and selling to the rest of us as neutral, is simply the way you like your car to feel for your driving style and in the situations that you drive in. I wouldn't encourage making blanket statements like that and selling it to everyone as if you have it figured out a neutral setup unless you have the track time in the car and the driving experience to back it up. No offense taken, and I'm glad you're playing devil's advocate. If we have a chance to get together one of these days, I'd like you to take it for a spin and see what you think. Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 My H&R's just showed up. We should get together after I get them on which will be soon. And then I am going to go to Mann Engineering in the south bay for an alignment, so I will down by you. We can do a comparo!!! GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 My H&R's just showed up. We should get together after I get them on which will be soon. And then I am going to go to Mann Engineering in the south bay for an alignment, so I will down by you. We can do a comparo!!! I'm down for that! Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I have a WL 22mm RSB, so you can check that out, and I can check out your Koni's. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 That's the spirit guys! I'd love to get some proper shocks/struts on mine. For now I'll deal with the stock setup until I can either get the RCE kit or the AZP rebuilds. And yep, on the Swaybar front, I want to balance out the 26mm FSB with the 22mm RSB. I was going to go 24mm in the back but feel it will be overkill for DD. 16->19->22mm in the back should stiffen things up nicely. The front is great now with the 26mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Subie Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Ok, so I get the feeling I'm probably beating a dead horse, but here goes. I ordered the 19MM Subaru swaybar kit with the "18" OEM rubber bushings and also got the 19MM AVO bushings to compare. The 19MM AVO bushings fit flush with the bar, no gaps, but they are not as snug as the purposely undersized "18" Subaru OEM bushings. The 19MM AVO bushings can be easily slid up and down the bar, whereas the Subaru OEM bushings are a much tighter fit. I know some folks have matched the AVO bushings with the 19MM Subaru swaybar, but I don't recall them mentioning what specific size AVO bushings they got. My question is, which would you go with: tight "18" rubber OEM or flush but not so tight 19MM AVO? Or, should I order an undersized 18MM AVO bushing instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 That's the spirit guys! I'd love to get some proper shocks/struts on mine. For now I'll deal with the stock setup until I can either get the RCE kit or the AZP rebuilds. And yep, on the Swaybar front, I want to balance out the 26mm FSB with the 22mm RSB. I was going to go 24mm in the back but feel it will be overkill for DD. 16->19->22mm in the back should stiffen things up nicely. The front is great now with the 26mm. This thread popped back up and while I don't have a comment on the 19mm versus 18mm bushing, I do want to state that if you have a 2.5i with the 26mm front bar, you may want to go 22mm in the rear. My 19mm bar seemed to get me to neutral along with my other changes, but something changed and I haven't been able to put a finger on it. I have gone to a 22mm rear bar which helped a little, and I will be getting an alignment tomorrow to get more negative camber in the front versus the rear. I don't know what changed in the suspension to go from a "seemingly" neutral to a slight understeer. I had the alignment checked. I swapped wheels front to back. Maybe the springs settled more? Dunno. Perscitus: Did you get the 22mm bar, at which setting do you have it, how much negative camber do you have F/R and how do you "feel" on the understeer/oversteer? "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 This thread popped back up and while I don't have a comment on the 19mm versus 18mm bushing, I do want to state that if you have a 2.5i with the 26mm front bar, you may want to go 22mm in the rear. My 19mm bar seemed to get me to neutral along with my other changes, but something changed and I haven't been able to put a finger on it. I have gone to a 22mm rear bar which helped a little, and I will be getting an alignment tomorrow to get more negative camber in the front versus the rear. Perscitus: Did you get the 22mm bar, at which setting do you have it, how much negative camber do you have F/R and how do you "feel" on the understeer/oversteer?This! I went through the same exercise. OEM 2010 23mm FSB / 16mm RSB -> upgraded to 19mm RSB (nice improvement) -> upgraded to 26mm 2013 FSB (great up front but unbalanced the car in the back) -> upgraded to 22mm Whiteline RSB (perfect match with a 26mm FSB!, back to neutral and rock solid straight and in corners, 0 wondering or sway in crosswinds). We've set the 22mm RSB on max settings with the guys @ AZP. I haven't done an alignment in a bit but I'll check the spec sheet from last fall or have one more done soon when I rotate the tires again. Car feels v solid, stable and planted with the 2013 26mm FSB and 22mm RSB combo. I considered going 24mm in the back but been advised by a few poeple against it. For a DD - its overkill. I think a 26mm/22mm combo is ideal for our cars (all engine flavors, but especially the 2.5GT and 3.6R due to the extra weight and powhaa). If anything I suspect I have a little oversteer now rather that understeer. The car is very predictable taking corners @70-80mph and solid coming out of them. Bites right into the pavement and grips right through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks Perscitus. I've got mine at full stiff, but I had the front camber set at -1.4 and the rear to -1.1. It was around -1.1 all around and I was still getting some understeer. We shall see if this is the fix or not. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Just get yourself a GT and I guarantee that the understeer will be fixed with the use of the throttle. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kei Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 My car is a lease and I bought the whiteline 22mm RSB. I don't plan on upgrading the endlinks. Will this damage my endlinks? Obviously, I don't want to damage them if I don't know if I will keep this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerophool Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 My car is a lease and I bought the whiteline 22mm RSB. I don't plan on upgrading the endlinks. Will this damage my endlinks? Obviously, I don't want to damage them if I don't know if I will keep this car. You'll probably snap the stock end links. They are about as thick at a toothpick. Current Mileage as of 19-June-15: 15012 Purchase Date: 30-June-12 Visit my profile page (visitor message section) for a brief mod. list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 My car is a lease and I bought the whiteline 22mm RSB. I don't plan on upgrading the endlinks. Will this damage my endlinks? Obviously, I don't want to damage them if I don't know if I will keep this car. you may bend them...I'm not sure about snapping them. lease, you say. If you plan on returning the car, then get aftermarket endlinks so you will have the stock piece. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 you may bend them...I'm not sure about snapping them. lease, you say. If you plan on returning the car, then get aftermarket endlinks so you will have the stock piece.Great advice. I somehow managed to bend my driver's side one with a 19mm RSB. Installed Whiteline ones when we put the 22mm RSB in @ AZP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutchard Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Still haven't broken my stock endlinks on my Whiteline 22mm rear bar on full stiff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 ^And you autocross, correct? GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutchard Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 ^And you autocross, correct? correct http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/Rutch/graphix/smileys/thumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colombo Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Today I called a dealer to find out about cost of 19 MM RSB and gave them part number from subaruonlineparts.com. At dealer they told me that it is an Impreza STI part number for RSB. Can anybody comment on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutchard Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Today I called a dealer to find out about cost of 19 MM RSB and gave them part number from subaruonlineparts.com. At dealer they told me that it is an Impreza STI part number for RSB. Can anybody comment on this? Yes, it's the part number for the 19mm RSB from the STi. It fits the 5th gen Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colombo Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Oh, thank you. I was under impression that it was something developed by subaru for Legacy perfomance upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Essentially the 2010+ Legacys share the 2008+ Impreza rear suspension. Bushings, sway bar, lower control arms, shocks, tophats and toe arms I think are all identical or at least are close enough for direct swap. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colombo Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Essentially the 2010+ Legacys share the 2008+ Impreza rear suspension. Bushings, sway bar, lower control arms, shocks, tophats and toe arms I think are all identical or at least are close enough for direct swap. Thank you for the info. Though, dealer told me that it is 2010+ Impreza STI 19 mm RSB part number that most people do upgrade to. Maybe it was smaller before 2010... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal4424 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I used the search but couldn't find a straight answer. I have the 7 yr 100k warranty on my 2013 and was curious if anyone has any idea if the RSB would void any kind of warranty (I do recognize these can be dealer specific)? I'd be pretty surprised if it did but wouldn't be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadTrainDriver Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The only items I could imagine might be affected warranty wise by installing the larger sway bar, is the sway bar itself, the endinks, and possibly the sway bar mounts. Not enough to sweat...in my opnion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minuccims Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 1) buy the subaru 19mm sway have dealer install covered 2) leave it alone 3) don't sweat it and get whatever bar you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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