Sparco Drift ?

[outahere]

...........I've accumulated just north of about 20 miles on these new tires. No pushing on them yet, of course, but from what I can tell under very sedate driving, they seem very similar to my 3Ds.

 

More soon.

 

Is your LGT "tail happy" in the snow with the 3Ds? I find it almost too easy to kick out the rear end with the Blizzak LM25. Some, or maybe most, of that behavior may of course be due to the rear LSD.

 

Will be interested to hear whether the studded Pirellis will tame that behavior.

[TSiWRX]

Too much speed/power, yes, even with the 2-PSI bias front-rear, even with the stock suspension, the tail did want to come around (I currently have a way too big bar back there: that will be taken care of by next spring, but I want to experiment fully with them, before switching out). Sara's FXT (completely stock) feels that way, too, but stability control really reins it in.

 

FWIW, the 3Ds are not a favorite of the harder-core STi crowd here - those who really like to attack corners when it's nasty out. They either wind up plowing through if they go in too aggressively or get way too tail-out to maintain good forward speed, as they try too much to power-out.

 

For me, the "kitty-in, cat (not lion, as that will, like you said, kick the tail out)-out" mantra works really well on the 3Ds. I've literally had plow-truck drivers go slack-jawed when I catch up to them coming out of a corner, after they'd blitzed past me a quarter mile back up the road. Not getting carried away is key, but yep, it really does like to come out.

 

IIRC, in the 2006 Auto Review, they said that the Pirellis made their test vehicle slightly tail-happy: I'm going to exercise some good caution, particularly given my current Perrin 25mm bar at the rear (set on "soft," with a Perrin 25mm front, set on "hard"), until I've had a chance to dice things out a bit in a frozen-over parking lot.

 

Besides, after having wrecked someone else's 911 Carrera 2S (a brand new and beautiful yellow 997), I'm currently a little gun-shy.

[TSiWRX]

^ Ninja-edited as it didn't make any sense as I read-through again...tried to cook dinner while I was making the original post. That didn't work, at all!

[98LGTLover]

Have you been able to get those tires in the snow or on ice yet?

[TSiWRX]

^ Sadly, no.

 

I finished break-in over the course of the last two days, but the snowfall over the that same period did not pan-out. We got some sprinkling action yesterday, with some icy areas, but those areas are literally the size of throw-rug and exists only on driveways. Even untraveled parking lots did not have any reliable icing.

[98LGTLover]

Oh bummer! In Sandpoint, ID we have about 2 feet of snow which was only from last week. Another 10" is going to start falling on Monday night.

[TSiWRX]

^ Like I keep complaining, where's MY snow!

[outahere]

.........Besides, after having wrecked someone else's 911 Carrera 2S (a brand new and beautiful yellow 997), I'm currently a little gun-shy.

 

Tsk tsk:p:lol: Did this happen in Dubai? How much damage?

[outahere]

Oh bummer! In Sandpoint, ID we have about 2 feet of snow which was only from last week. Another 10" is going to start falling on Monday night.

 

Is that new stretch of Hwy 95 through Sandpoint finished yet? My last 2 trips through Sandpoint required a lot of zigging and zagging.

 

Are you running a studded tire?

[98LGTLover]

The bypass still isn't done yet! You still have to zig zag! They have been changing the roads a lot here lately.. I would go into town and go under the bypass then I would come back out of town going around it. It keeps thing interesting though!

 

And they have just finished a big project on Hwy 95 from Hayden Lake to Garwood. Now it is 4 lanes all the way through Coeur d' Alene to almost where Silverwood is. It is very nice.

 

Yeah I have Hankook W409's that are studded. Good ol' Les Schwab runs the market for tires up here and that tires is on almost every car you see!

[TSiWRX]

Tsk tsk:p:lol: Did this happen in Dubai? How much damage?

 

^ Yep.

 

What's even more embarrassing was just how nice everyone was about it - from the Michelin people to the other participants (most of whom had extensive track experience) to the true VIPs, to a person, they all tried their hardest to make me feel like less of an idiot than I really was.

 

Even more ironic was that one of my stated goals for the day was not to crash, and more on top of that in that just hours before, I'd commented on how easy the 2S was to handle around the track: little did I realize that it was the stability management gizmos that was doing all the work!

 

To top it off, had it happened in "my backyard," with snow on the ground, I'd have driven away with no issues - but on a track in the middle of the desert, in someone else's car? Yep, I freaked! With no track experience to call on, I was so stupid that I didn't even realize that I could just take the friggin' run-off, right in front of me!

 

Can you tell that I'm embarrassed?

 

What no-one can figure out is why the passenger's side seat and curtain airbags popped, but aside from that, I was told that it was superficial damage to the right side of the car (sadly, from the way the 911's are Coke-bottled, that means all panels on that side). Impact speed was approx. 25 to 30 MPH, and the car was nearly parallel to the roadway by that time. Like I said, I totally freaked after I'd hooked the left rear over the kerbing, and either I overcorrected or the deactivated stability-control (found out, post-mortem, from the Michelin guys that someone had deactivated stability-control: we were specifically asked not to do so...everyone knew that I was not dumb enough to do that, and I somewhat suspect that they said that to me just to make me feel better) combined with the super-slick sand pointed me in the direction of the far wall.

 

I was told that they were bringing the car back out for the next day's worth of invited guests, cosmetic blemishes and all.

[outahere]

Couldn't blame this one on the RE92s, could you.

Michelin and Porsche are accustomed to automotive journalists wrecking test cars, so this was no biggie to them.

[TSiWRX]

^ They might be accustomed to it, but I'm definitely not fond of wrecking someone-else's toy: particularly when that toy is a beautiful yellow 997 2S. Being the car-guy that I am (which only compounded my shame in wrecking such a beautiful car), I practically begged them to let me pay their insurance deductible on the car: bot only wouldn't they hear of it, they reassured me that they were simply glad that I was not hurt, and that, furthermore, they did not want this to spoil for me, in any way, either the trip nor my future thoughts about track days. It truly endeared me to these Michelin folk.

 

And yes, sadly, the bunny-killer RE92s could not be blamed, this time!

 

That all said, I now truly see why people love their Porsches. The way the car behaved on the track truly was outstanding. I've driven an earlier 911 decently hard, on open streets, but it's *nothing* like how hard I was able to go on the track.

 

I'm now fully addicted to track-days, and am in the process of figuring out what I want to do with my old DSM, as well as how much I can juggle my other hobbies, so that I can get an affordable track-day car, and also afford tires!

[TSiWRX]

Well, these are loud. With the windows open, I can't even really hear my exhaust unless I'm hoofin' it. Radio (factory '05 system, with sub) needs to be up to 15 or so, at 35 MPH, to counter the noise. Windows closed, while I don't think it's any worse than my RS-2s and Anna has not complained, they undoubtedly intrude into the cabin, and I don't know if most people would tolerate the increased noise. Radio volume of 6 or 7 easily takes the noise out of the equation, and yes, exhaust noise, in my car, still is the overriding factor.

 

As for ice?

 

This is taken from my earlier reply to bigskydoc:

 

My local friends were right: I'm likely going to really enjoy my studded tires only minutes out of a season (REF:[edit: link refers back to this thread] - post number 84) - but a few of those minutes came today.

 

It's our second snowfall of the season, and still nothing to really write home about. Barely a dusting. But this AM's commute saw glare-ice formed at the more often traveled (but untreated) feeders from secondary streets onto main thoroughfares. Temperatures were in the high 20s.

 

Others slid. I did not. No, I didn't purposefully test, for I had Anna in the back, taking her to school - but treading carefully or not, ice is ice, and this afternoon, my wife told me that her ABS (her '09 FXT is equipped with a set of Xi2s) did activate this AM. I did take the U-turn to head to her school with a little verve. There was again no untoward wiggle of the tail (which is common, as I discussed elsewhere with outahere, when I'm on my 3Ds), but again, I didn't really push it, as there was oncoming traffic.

 

I'm going to try to hunt-down an ungroomed parking lot (one that I'm familiar with) tonight. Chances are slim, though, as crews have salted/treated their lots all day today, to prevent icing.

 

So far, these Pirellis seem to feel pretty solid in the clear. Granted, I haven't pushed them anywhere remotely near "hard" (I'd just finished breaking them in, when the snow started falling here), but for average driving, they certainly feel much more precise than the Xi2s. The taller sidewall (215/50) on the Xi2s certainly isn't helping, in this regard, but even so, I can't help but wonder if what they say about the "Studless Ice & Snows" compound being truly too soft for use in above-zero (F.) temperatures to be true.... Or maybe it's just all in my head, since that seed took hold.

[outahere]

Pray for freezing drizzle.

[TSiWRX]

Way insufficient coverage, so far, tonight. At least in my local area - I wonder about the true snow-belt, though.

[outahere]

Saw a photo of the yellow Porsche on the Tirerack site. Before the body alterations.

 

Did the Michelin reps reveal when the new XIce Xi3 will arrive in the US, and the new Alpin PA4?

[TSiWRX]

^ No, I tried to dig out when the PA4s will come, but they either were really good at being tight-lipped , or it truly was out of this group's hands. I'm truly inclined to believe the latter, though, as they sorta "let-in" on some of the less top-secret stuff, so I don't think that they were really trying to keep anything from us/me, particularly as it was already on-market elsewhere.

 

And hey, about that Porsche, that hurts!

 

There were actually 4 similar yellow 911s there that day...at least that's when I lost count.....

[TSiWRX]

OK, the studded tires kill all the fun: I'm nowhere near being able to do the slow-speed heroics that I loved to do, with the 3Ds. And no, I don't have the balls to try to do the same heroics, at higher speeds, on streets with traffic!

 

The plus side of that, though, is that I can get going - and can stop - so much better.

 

I know that the platforms are not equal, nor the tire sizing, but cross-compared to my wife's FXT (which I took out tonight, to get gas) shod with Xi2s, the studded Pirellis are just more tenacious. Testing panic-stops and harder (this is definitely relative, and it's *not* relative to a 5K RPM sidestep ) launches versus a softer roll-out, you can literally feel when it's the studs doing the work, versus the frictional surface of the tires.

 

This is definitely not to say that the Xi2s were insufficient, in any way. They still instill plenty of confidence, paired with our AWD.

 

Rather, it just gives me more room to either mess-about a bit, or, alternatively - and this is what I really use the tires for - enlarges the safety envelope even more.

 

In so far as I'm concerned, I'm sold. It's studded winters for me, from now on, for the deep-winter months.

 

Hell, if I could talk Sara into bearing with the noise, I'd put studded tires on her car, for sure: maybe put her in a Lexus? or maybe I should just make her wear my range ear-protectors? or Dynamat the snot out of the car?

 

All I have to decide now is what I really want to do for the transitional seasons: stick with "Performance Winters" or go with some good all-season tires?

 

Truth be told, there's little risk in my running an all-season tire from, say, mid-September through early/mid-December, and then again changing in, say, late-February. Our seasonal storms usually occur in a predictable manner, between those winter months, and with decent prediction from the local stations. Given the larger safety margin that all-seasons will afford me in the majority of my driving circumstances during those transitional months, I honestly don't know what the relative value is, when that's stacked up against the enlarged safety margin in the worst possible conditions, running "Performance Winters."

 

I don't have to worry about this one, yet. But by this time next year, I'll be losing sleep over this one.

 

All this said about the studded Pirellis, I would like these further experiences:

 

(1) Being able to try out the studded Hakka 7s, to cross-compare.

 

(2) See the temperatures drop below -5 deg. F (we might drop to the single digits next week, but historically, our area won't see any lower than that, in any given winter), and cross-compare traction with the Xi2s (and my in-law's WS70).

 

(3) See more ice and hardpack situations - both rare on our roads, for extended stretches, due to usual temperatures and treatments: I'll likely see more of the former at side-street/main-thoroughfare intersections, once it starts warming up a little later in the week, but it's spotty at best.

 

(4) Compare to the same tires, but without studs.

[outahere]

............All I have to decide now is what I really want to do for the transitional seasons: stick with "Performance Winters" or go with some good all-season tires?..............

 

"Split the difference", and go with a V or W speed-rated performance winter?

[TSiWRX]

I'm on a V-rated 3D now, and have been very, very happy with them. They went through a recent smaller burst of snow just fine, despite being at near 6/32".

 

I've truly enjoyed how they've handled, particularly clear-dry, during the transition seasons, even when it's pretty darned warm out.

 

You know me, I'm just itchin' to try something new.

[outahere]

.......You know me, I'm just itchin' to try something new.

 

Hankook Winter iCept Evo? Be the first on the block to try it!

 

Or the new Pirelli Cyber "intelligent tire"? (But you will have to buy a new luxury car to utilize the Cyber tire).

 

http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/technology/technology-revolution/cyber-tyre/default.page

[TSiWRX]

^ I'll convert mine to VIP, yo!

 

There's someone on NASIOC who went with the iCept.....I won't be first!

[outahere]

I have one season left on my Michelin Exalto summers, and at least two seasons left on my Blizzak LM25s. I think my next set of tires will be a ice & snow tire, and a UHPAS. By the time I am ready to buy, tire prices should be at an all time high. May have to go with a set of Wanli or Linglong tires from China.

[TSiWRX]

^ YES, the Livelongs!!!!!!