Sparco Drift ?

[TSiWRX]

^ Oh, now that's smart! I'm gonna try that after dinner.

[outahere]

Unfortunately, the same trick does not work at http://www.drivingvisionnews.com. They have an extremely expensive subscrition rate.

 

But I was able to read a bit about a recent significant development for halogen lighting:

 

"........Presented for the first time to the public in the forthcoming Paris Motorshow in October, the new Peugeot 508 headlamp made by Valeo will be equipped with Valeo's New Efficient Optics for the Low Beam. In addition to the traditional complex-surface reflector, a specially-designed lens replaces the bulb shield to catch more flux and to make the optical system more efficient........"

 

"...........The bulb shield is replaced by an internal lens and there are 2 reflectors:

The inboard reflector close to the bulb sends most of the light to the internal lens in order to illuminate the foreground out to 50 meters. The outboard reflector illuminates the road beyond that distance. The result is a hot spot of more than 40 Lx (25,000 cd) with an illumination of around 40 Lx at 75R and a 1-lux spread of around 35° left and right."

 

"It delivers high-level lighting performances for halogen bulbs and offers a clear styling differentiation. We are looking forward to get feedback from the Peugeot 508 release to confirm our strong expectations on this technology."

[TSiWRX]

^ Neato!

 

---

 

OK, I'm an Intr4w3b FAIL. I don't know how to do your Google trick!

[outahere]

Do a google advanced search, specify the site name tyrepress.com, and paste in the title of the article you are interested in.

[TSiWRX]

^ Will-do. Thank you.

 

 

-----

 

 

OK, my friend, time to get serious on the purchase.

 

I've transferred funds into my checking account, so I'm ready to fly.

 

I'm stuck:

 

From Tires By Web, I priced out the 215/45/17 Hakka 7s, studded, mounted on a set of 17x7 +40 offset Motegi SP10, at around $1,700 out-the-door.

 

From TireRack, the 225/45/17 Pirelli WinterCarving, studded, mounted on a set of the 17x8 Sparco Drifts will be about $1,400.

 

Looking at the NAF data from 2009, heck if I don't like the Pirelli a bit better than the Nokian. I think that the Pirelli's trade in terms of ice/snow traction would be something that I can more than live with, given that it betters the Hakka 7s in the clear wet/dry. Saving that $300 is just gravy on top.

 

But with the WinterCarving, I'm afraid, as we've discussed, about the "EDGE factor." If indeed the EDGE models offer superior non-visible construct, I could really be screwing myself, and the $300 I saved, in my view, won't be worth it.

 

In my shoes, what would you do?

 

I know, I know - big-boys and big-girls should make their own decisions: and towards that end, I'm inclined to go the way of the Nokians: for at least they are a known-quantity. But their clear-road (both wet and dry) performance is in the bottom tier....

[TSiWRX]

Do a google advanced search, specify the site name tyrepress.com, and paste in the title of the article you are interested in.

 

Intr4w3b FAIL at its most basic.

 

I'm embarrassed to say that, for reasons still unknown to me, I failed to click on the proper resulting link, following my original Google search.

[stevehecht]

 

But with the WinterCarving, I'm afraid, as we've discussed, about the "EDGE factor." If indeed the EDGE models offer superior non-visible construct, I could really be screwing myself, and the $300 I saved, in my view, won't be worth it.

 

In my shoes, what would you do?

 

 

I know the loneliness of making this kind of decision--there's no wrong answer, but does that mean that there's no right answer either? Just joshin' you...I did look for a prior discussion of the "EDGE factor" in this thread but couldn't find it. I'd be glad to throw my 2cents into the ring if you briefly update me on (or direct me to the discussion of) what this factor means in terms of your decision.

[TSiWRX]

^ Ah, sorry - that was a PM between me and outahere, IIRC.

 

The "EDGE (or "Edge," depending where you grab the reference from, it's either just a word or all capitalized - meaning what, in the latter case, I do not know) factor" is the observation that TireRack is closing out the Pirelli WinterCarving and WinterCarving Edge (they refer to it without the capitalization) tires, apparently, it's not a big seller for them, regardless of studding.

 

If you'll look on the Pirelli website, there's actually more WinterCarving EDGE sizing than there exists WinterCarving sizing - akin to the Dunlop SP WinterSport 3D and M3 (in which the 3D started replacing the M3, as of several seasons ago).

 

Since more recent testing has focused on the EDGE/Edge models, we're left to wonder if the WinterCarving perhaps doesn't carry some of the evolutionary improvements made to the Edge variant....

 

Why is this such a fear of mine?

 

The Pirellis apparently underwent evolutionary changes that brought it from a rather middle-of-the-road tire to a very good one (don't look at the overall ranking on the NAF test, rather, look at the specific-test breakdowns, note how it is very close to the top competitors, quantitatively speaking: it's again a demonstration of how the "weighing" of a test can bias the final result) for my specific needs.

 

Hard decision to make, particularly with that $300 difference hanging in there, too. Although still within budget, $300 isn't something I'm about to throw away, either: it'll fuel my car, for average commuting, for over a dozen weeks...but I'd trade that for better handling, where/how I want it, in a second.

 

Your assistance, too, is appreciated.

[outahere]

Have you considered going Dutch? The Vredestein Arctrac will give up a little ice and snow traction to the Hakka7, but will have better dry/wet performance.

And tiresbyweb sells Vredestein.

 

You can find consumer reviews of the Vredestein brand here:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredestein/

 

And you could have the cachet of owning the only Vredestein shod Legacy in Ohio.

[TSiWRX]

^ LOL - Now that praedet's moved to MD/VA, yep, that would definitely be true!

 

I also like the fact that Google Translator some times translates it from the NAF page as "Wrath Stein" - makes me think of my wife, an angry Jew.

 

In all seriousness, though, that's an interesting option, particularly as I cannot confirm the "age" of the Pirellis. It also saves about $100 over the Nokians, but more importantly, as you said, seems to trade ice performance for better clear-road behavior (as good or better than the Pirelli EDGE model), which should work well given the 225 width.

 

Hum......

 

That will be one to play over in my mind, while I wait for some quotes to come in from my local friends.

 

 

----

 

 

OK, so I spent the better part of the afternoon looking at the Russian test of the Pirelli WinterCarving in 2005 and 2006. It's still a mid-pack runner there.

 

Aside from the TireRack comparo showing a difference that favors the General Altimax Arctic (aka Gislaved NordFrost 3), I can't find anything else that favors the General more than the Pirelli.

 

I'm starting to side in favor of the Pirellis.

 

I still have a few days to contemplate this, though. In that time, I'll play over the Vredestein option, too.

 

Thanks, as-always, for the ideas.

[outahere]

Whatever you end up getting, be sure to post some photos here as soon as they arrive. There is nothing like the smell of new tires and wheels.

[TSiWRX]

^

 

I sure will.

 

I think what I'll do is just stack them until our first "Stud Legal" day, and then run them in nice and gentle that week - removing and re-stacking thereafter. Our local speed-limits are actually very favorable for that kind of thing, too. This way, the'll be ready-to-rock, when it's their time, much later into the season.

[TSiWRX]

Really starting to favor the Pirellis.

 

I reconciled the 2006 (earliest I could find) Russian data (quantitative) of the Pirelli WinterCarving with the 2009 NAF data, and it seems like while there's been the possibility of evolutionary improvements in the model to the EDGE, the NAF data is still very, very representative of what I would be expecting, and no matter what, I will not fall far below what I'm expecting of the tires.

 

Based on the performance breakdowns, at this point, the Dutch is out - and things are favoring the Pirellis...but I'm still waiting to see what can be done with pricing, on the Hakka 7s.

[stevehecht]

Well, even though I threatened to contribute my 2cents to your decision, it looks like you're nearly there--and I doubt that any expertise I might gain over a short period of time will be able to amount to much compared to all the hours of research you've already accomplished. The issue around the advantages of EDGE technology looks quite vague to me, so I think I will somewhat sheepishly bow out of the discussion, even before I managed to bow in.

[TSiWRX]

^ Please, don't think that, at all. After all, it was your re-examination of the 2009 TR data that finally got outahere and I clear on what it was saying, and where its inconsistencies were!

 

I haven't made any headway with finding what the true difference between the Winter Carving model and the EDGE models may be. Although there's one area of the sidewall which, in pictures, I suspect can potentially allow for naked-eye differentiation (aside from, say, the presence of an ultra-small brand mark, such as what's seen on the Xi2 [discounting its more drastic differences from the original X-Ice, of-course], which is not readily visible from such photos), it's something that I'm just not sure about.

 

What's reassuring for me is that the data from last year's NAF testing closely matches that of the 2006 and '07 Russian tests'. Even if the WinterCarving remained non-updated since the EDGE incursion, I still know what I'm getting into (and the data again contradicts that of what TR published - this is also reassuring, given how lowly they rated the WinterCarving, there), and I'm decently satisfied with its compromises.

 

[outahere]

.........but I'm still waiting to see what can be done with pricing, on the Hakka 7s.

 

Are Hakka 5s available at closeout prices?

[TSiWRX]

^ I've checked a little - not that I know of.

 

On Tires By Web, it's virtually the same as the Hakka 7, and when I asked my local contact, he said that he did not remember any closeouts on the model: that he hasn't seen such, yet.

[stevehecht]

^ I've checked a little - not that I know of.

 

On Tires By Web, it's virtually the same as the Hakka 7, and when I asked my local contact, he said that he did not remember any closeouts on the model: that he hasn't seen such, yet.

 

Have you tried any local indie Nokian dealers? My Honda mechanic sells Nokians and he can usually beat the price at TR (he says). If you find a shop like that rather than a tire dealer, it might work out. My guy sells tires 'on the side,' it's not his bread and butter so he doesn't need a big mark up.

[TSiWRX]

^ Yep, "local contact."

[98LGTLover]

So this winter I'm trying the Hankook Winter iPikes on my GT, they will be on steel wheels (I hate steel wheels but whatever they will work for this winter). Plus I'm getting a good deal on them... Used only 1 season and they are studded for $300.

 

And I will be trying the Toyo Observe on my L wagon because those are the tires it came with. Lots of people in North Idaho seem to run the Toyo Observe tires year round because they have good traction in the rain.

[outahere]

Really starting to favor the Pirellis. ...........- and things are favoring the Pirellis...but I'm still waiting to see what can be done with pricing, on the Hakka 7s.

 

Pull the trigger yet?

[TSiWRX]

^ Still waiting on local to confirm on the Nokians. I'm now 90% on going with the Pirellis, particularly as I've got an unexpected spending coming up which will eat into my "fun" budget.

 

I've PM'ed my local yesterday, and it's basically as soon as he gives word of confirmation, I'll make a decision, either way.

 

Stop me if you think the Pirellis are a bad idea!

[outahere]

No negatives from me about the Pirellis.

 

Have you had any experience yet with lead-free balancing weights?

[TSiWRX]

Wait, you have to balance tires/rims?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.

 

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Automotive/OEM/Prod_Info/Catalog/Wheel_Weight/

 

I just watched those sets of videos - no, I haven't had any experience with them. Stick-on weights of the traditional (I'd assume leaded) type (maybe I should stop licking them?), but not of that kind.... My last purchase was in 2008, and I replaced a tire in late 2009 (virtually no wear in 2008) so if this is newer than that, then I definitely have not seen it.

 

Oh, and BTW, in addition to coming back to pirate your update on the CR/ADAC "pending" results, I also wanted to shout "peer pressure" at you. You would've made one hell of a drug pusher, you know that?

[stevehecht]

TSi+WRX,

 

Tell me (again?) why you're not interested in the Generals...they seem to be a more well-balanced tire according to the TR test where they went head-to-head with the Pirellis, and in the users' survey. They were not tested in the NAF 2009, and CR did not include them both in their comparisons (the Generals did very well), but did you ever consider them? I see no mention of them by you in this thread.