Sparco Drift ?

[TSiWRX]

^ Very good question.

 

In tracing data back, we see this, cross-posted often on various automotive-enthusiast Forums (I ran across three different copies, before realizing that one was resident here on LGT.com ):

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/complete-winter-tire-test-review-3043.html?t=3043&highlight=pirelli+winter

 

Despite claims, it's clear from looking at the NordFrost 3 and the WinterCarving that they are not "identical," even on the surface - that they share common traits in some of the performance parameters is indicative of this similarity, but the differences cited (i.e. the Pirelli being a "well-rounded" tire, while the NordFrost 3 seemed to have difficulty stopping in powder), even without the capability to reconcile quantitative data, would also suggest that the tires had both overt as well as unseen differences.

 

Given later data - the 2006 and '07 Russian data, plus the 2009 NAF, I could then reconcile the quantitative figures and say that I would at least know, quantitatively, where the Pirelli stood: both strengths and weaknesses...but the same could not be said of the Altimax Arctic/NordFrost 3.

 

So, then, why not trust the TR data? Because I could not reconcile it with the NAF data - and given the two, based on previous TR data concerns which we are all too aware of, I am more inclined to trust the NAF.

 

Similarly, the CR data became an outlier - or, rather, only serves to confound, when paired with the TR data, particularly as the CR data crossed sub-genres.

 

So, then, in going back to that 2004 test (as well as the CR data), why not go with the Hakka 5?

 

Because again, in reconciling the actual quantitative data provided by both the Russian testing as well as the 2009 NAF, you'll see just how closely the Pirellis followed in the footsteps of the leading (by default, as the Xi2 Nord is not available here in our market) Hakka 7s.

 

In originally not knowing enough about "the EDGE factor," the digging that I've done has had an unanticipated result in that it managed to at least reconcile what was known about the older WinterCarving variants with the (likely) newer "EDGE" variants. At least I know, with relative certainty, what I'm getting into.

 

With the Generals - that becomes more of a wildcard.

 

Yes, the lower price is very, very attractive: but based on the quantitative data, I'm more inclined to go with the Pirellis.

 

Does looking at the CR and TR data make me waffle somewhat?

 

I'd be lying if I said it didn't. Particularly as there's about a $100 incentive (given the rebates).

 

But it's hard to argue against the known numbers, particularly when that of two separate sources can be very, very closely reconciled.

[stevehecht]

^Yes: 1) the 2009 NAF data on the Pirellis is certainly confidence-inspiring; 2) the fact that there is no comparable Euro testing for the General, so that quantitative data is unavailable; and 3) you are correct that the CR test can be misleading because of the mix of studdable and studless tires.** I guess I have less conviction that all TR test findings profit by the use of a jaundiced (or evil) eye, but certainly the three factors above combined with the "unevenness" of some of TR's winter testing/interpretation does throw the garland to the Pirellis. We have a winnah!***

 

(**I have not seen the Russian results.)

(***I must admit I'm confused by your mention of the Nordfrost 3--and how that relates to the Pirellis and the current availability of the Nordfrost 5--but we can let that slide if you like.)

[outahere]

..........Oh, and BTW, in addition to coming back to pirate your update on the CR/ADAC "pending" results, I also wanted to shout "peer pressure" at you. You would've made one hell of a drug pusher, you know that?

 

Just updated my update. The ADAC test should be online by Sep 23. Will be interesting to see how ADAC and CR compare. I am surprised to see the V rated Pilot Alpin PA3 in the CR top 3, because snow and ice traction were never its strength that I can recall, but maybe Michelin has made some formulation changes for this year's manufacturing run.

[TSiWRX]

(**I have not seen the Russian results.)

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoreview.ru%2Farchive%2F2006%2F21%2Ftyres%2F&sl=auto&tl=en

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoreview.ru%2Farchive%2F2007%2F19%2Fwinter_tyres%2F&sl=auto&tl=en

 

2006 and 2007, from Auto Review.

 

I threw away my "decoding key" for the quantitative data - which I shouldn't have done, since I spent the better part of an entire afternoon working through these articles and comparing their quantitative data (where I could decipher it) with that of the 2009 NAF.

 

But if you went through and did it the hard way, you'll see how closely most of the data matches. IIRC, only one factor was off by more than just a meter or so, and that, I specifically attributed to evolutionary changes in the tire: and even then assumed a worst-case scenario, that I'd get the worse performance out of that particular factor.

 

 

(***I must admit I'm confused by your mention of the Nordfrost 3--and how that relates to the Pirellis and the current availability of the Nordfrost 5--but we can let that slide if you like.)

 

I think my wording made that difficult, I apologize.

 

What I meant was that since the General Altimax Arctic can be traced back to the NordFrost 3 - at least in the overlying tread pattern (thus, power and slush performance) - one can make a baseline cross comparison between the Arctic and the Pirelli by going back to that 2004 data, and realizing the critical differences cited there, subjectively, can be objectively found in the subtle differences not only on the surface of the tire, but even more likely the unseen constitutional differences underneath.

 

But as time progressed, Gislaved moved to the NordFrost 5 - and the more modern data leaves the NordFrost 3/Altimax Arctic, thus making a cross-comparison between it and Pirelli, at least in terms of the trusted European testing, impossible.

[Bolksey85]

TSi, I don't know if you made the jump on the wheels yet (quite frankly, because it's Monday and I don't feel like reading), but if you were or are going to get them, now's the time. TR has them on closeout.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCloseUpServlet?target=runWheelSearch&initialPartNumber=W29015504B&wheelMake=Sparco&wheelModel=Drift&wheelFinish=Black+Painted&showRear=no&autoMake=Subaru&autoModel=Impreza+WRX+STI&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&filterSize=All&filterFinish=All&filterSpecial=false&filterBrand=All&filterNew=All&sort=Brand

[TSiWRX]

^ Thanks.

 

I'm still waiting on my local contact to finalize on the Nokians. Until I hear from him, my hands are tied.

 

The price on those closeouts is really tempting, but I'm not sure I can pull off black rims....

[TSiWRX]

I pulled the trigger on the 17x8 Drifts plus a set of studded 225/4517 WinterCarvings.

[stevehecht]

^CONGRATS! I'm sure they'll be worth all the hard work you put into choosing them.

[TSiWRX]

^ Thanks.

 

Like one of my locals said, though, I'm likely to really appreciate them only for minutes out of one winter season (given that I'll only run these tires 8 weeks, maximum , each winter).

[outahere]

Will you break them in at the local ice rink?

[TSiWRX]

^ On the first day it gets cold enough here, I'm gonna spray my driveway.

 

 

The wife's gonna be pissed.......

 

 

----

 

 

OK, to be honest:

 

I plan to test-mount them when they get here, and then re-mount when it's November 1st - the beginning of our studded-legal season, as long as it's decently cold enough.

 

A week's worth of commuting, for me, should be just enough miles to get them broken in - and since my speed-limits here are low (35 MPH, max), it'll be perfect.

 

Then, they'll be ready-to-go, when the first storm hits.

[98LGTLover]

How much did that end up costing you?

 

Studs are legal in Idaho on October 1st - April 30th. I'm not putting my snows on until November though.

[TSiWRX]

Right around $1,300. $1,250 after the rebate.

[outahere]

^ On the first day it gets cold enough here, I'm gonna spray my driveway.

 

 

The wife's gonna be pissed.......

 

I like it. Even better if your driveway has a 20 degree incline.

 

Good looking wheels! Almost too nice for winter.

[TSiWRX]

^ Too nice for winter is right, considering how beat-up my "summer" rims are - I got a hand-me-down set of PFF7s from a local STi owner, because I thought I'd feel bad if I beat them up, myself. "Pre-damaged" takes all the worry out of it.

 

Ironically, my current winters are in near-perfect shape. We'll see about this set of Sparcos, though, as they definitely seem to have a convex face, like my PFF7s.

 

Oh, and you laugh, bruddah, but let me tell ya, the way we know to expect black-ice on the roads is if we fall on our ass, getting out to our cars in the AM.

[98LGTLover]

Wow $50 savings, you can't beat that! Hahaha

[TSiWRX]

^ At least 2 weeks' worth of gas for me, though.

[98LGTLover]

That's about a weeks worth of gas for me!

[TSiWRX]

^ Yep - now that I'm a commutin' daddy, I just don't put on the miles like I used to.

[TSiWRX]

Found the 2009 data on the Pirelli WinterCarving EDGE model tested by Auto Review (RU).

 

Again, a close correlation with the past data, as well as in cross-reference to NAF. No surprises there.

 

I haven't yet worked up the 2008 data. Probably won't be able to get to it today.....

[stevehecht]

^Reference?

[TSiWRX]

^ http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=66745&SECTION_ID=1875

 

Wheels/tires are here. Boy, do they look beefy. The Sparcos looked kinda delicate on-screen, but in-person, they're beefy. It's a matte bronze. Very nice.

 

Oh, and outahere, guess what kind of weights TireRack used?

[outahere]

^ http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=66745&SECTION_ID=1875

 

Wheels/tires are here. Boy, do they look beefy. The Sparcos looked kinda delicate on-screen, but in-person, they're beefy. It's a matte bronze. Very nice.

 

Oh, and outahere, guess what kind of weights TireRack used?

 

100% lead stick-ons? Depleted uranium clip-ons?

 

Do the Pirellis say "Edge" on the sidewalls?

[outahere]

Be sure to store those new tires & wheels in the house for the day, to spread that intoxicating aroma. I'm sure your wife won't mind.

[TSiWRX]

^ Oh, they smell *great*. I only wish they sent them in boxes - the smell would be even better. You know, I was actually thinking of you, bruddah, as I was unpacking.

 

My daughter's Schwinn trike from L.L.Bean, a gift from my stepdad, actually smelled more powerful, thanks to the fact that it was boxed and plastic-wrapped.

 

100% lead stick-ons? Depleted uranium clip-ons?

 

Clip-on bow-ties, silly!

 

OK, I should have been more clear. They look like the 3M non-lead stick-ons that I saw, after searching that up when you first mentioned it to me a few posts back: at least that's what they looked like, in the video.

 

Do the Pirellis say "Edge" on the sidewalls?

 

Negative.

 

DOBs are 3709, as-expected of close-out stock, but I'm not worried about that, given how consistently the tires - EDGE or not, have tested via the Russians.

 

By their stamped load class, they're definitely not the EDGE model , which, IIRC, are XL in this sizing.....