WraithAkaMrak Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 BRZ = Direct Injection FT-86 = Manifold injection Is that published data, or speculation? ... Also, Subaru just launched their own non-DI 2.0l boxer. Are they ALSO launching a new 2.0l DI boxer with a very limited run?From the concept's press release:The concept car employs the totally new Subaru "FA" Boxer engine exclusively designed for the RWD BRZ sports car. In order to achieve properties best-suited for the BRZ sports car, the overall structure of this 2.0-liter naturally-aspirated four-cylinder boxer engine has been designed with a square bore and stroke of 86 X 86 mm. The inherent qualities of the Subaru Boxer engine were mated to a direct injection fuel system, which further improves combustion efficiency, running smoothness up to high rpm and high environmental standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithAkaMrak Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 http://jalopnik.com/5855323/subaru-brz-sti-concept-more-photosOne thing to note: The sheetmetal for the production Subaru BRZ (which will be revealed at the Tokyo Motor Show later this month) won't look exactly like this — apparently Subaru has replaced every piece of bodywork for show-car dazzle purposes. http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_subaru-brz-sti-concept-side_1.jpg http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_subaru-brz-sti-concept-side.jpg http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_subaru-brz-sti-concept-frt_34.jpg http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/xlarge_subaru-brz-sti-concept-frt.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 A car like this with 300hp would be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Car and Driver has driven it! http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-subaru-brz-sports-car-prototype-drive Sounds like a great vehicle, although it's gonna be a little weird that a Subie and a Scion share the nearly-identical styling, both inside and out. I just wish it was a hatchback. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I just wish it was a hatchback. Maybe it isn't a hatchback in order to shave off some weight and get better rigidity. This is a car for fun, not a family car. But a trailer hitch so that you can have a trailer with your racing slicks on when going on a track day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM SpecB Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1320194258/516/5895516_600x400.jpg http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1320194139/508/5895508_600x400.jpg http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1320194282/521/5895521_600x400.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ok, so C&D says 200-210 hp, 170 lb-ft (both estimated) and 0-60 of 6-6.2 seconds (estimated). I'll admit I was a little off on the torque. This car is basically Subaru's RX-8 (0-60 of 5.9-6.0 for an RX-8 from what I saw with a quick google). Stock LGT would win in the 1/4 mile.. I see the cost is now estimated to be $28K. That's WRX territory. If only they would offer the WRX with an automatic/DSG transmission.. I'd probably already own one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ok, so C&D says 200-210 hp, 170 lb-ft (both estimated) and 0-60 of 6-6.2 seconds (estimated). I'll admit I was a little off on the torque. This car is basically Subaru's RX-8 (0-60 of 5.9-6.0 for an RX-8 from what I saw with a quick google). Stock LGT would win in the 1/4 mile.. I see the cost is now estimated to be $28K. That's WRX territory. If only they would offer the WRX with an automatic/DSG transmission.. I'd probably already own one.. I think C&D is high on the price and the power/torque. It's not going to be a super quick car in a straight line. It's going to be all about handling and will return good mpg in the process [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The BRZ is more Miata than RX8. The BRZ is only 180lbs heavier than a base Miata but almost 450lbs lighter than a RX8. With 210 hp, the BRZ would have a significant power to weight ratio over the RX8. It already has more torque than the pitiful RX8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsunami Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The tokyo auto show needs to hurry up so we can see the final version haha, I like the STi concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They said everybody panel on the STi concept is not production, but the actual production model is very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsunami Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Right, I'm just curious as to how similar the production version will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The BRZ is more Miata than RX8. The BRZ is only 180lbs heavier than a base Miata but almost 450lbs lighter than a RX8. I was thinking more in terms of everyday stuff. Miata is a 2-seater convertible. BRZ and RX-8 are 2-door coupes with 4 seats, non-convertible, with somewhat oddball engines (i.e. not I4s). Both will have 0-60 times around 6 seconds and have good handling (Miata too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I think C&D is high on the price and the power/torque. It's not going to be a super quick car in a straight line. It's going to be all about handling and will return good mpg in the process Perhaps. C&D estimates 19/27. WRX is rated at 19/25 (same as LGT, more or less) for around the same price, more power, AWD, etc.. WRX may not handle as spectacularly, but I don't even see the limits of handling of my LGT (upgrades are Koni shocks, Cobb sways, aftermarket endlinks) in day-to-day driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Neither do half of a million Miata drivers but they must love the car for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Neither do half of a million Miata drivers but they must love the car for some reason. It's a 2-seater convertible.. Totally different market. The BRZ is closer to an Acura RSX-S than a Miata, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Are you saying that people would not cross shop the BRZ/FR-S and Miata? People have wanted a hard top Miata for years. This is as close as they're going to get for now. RSX? Really? The RSX's weight distribution is worse than the LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Are you saying that people would not cross shop the BRZ/FR-S and Miata? People have wanted a hard top Miata for years. This is as close as they're going to get for now. RSX? Really? The RSX's weight distribution is worse than the LGT. If they want a small car that handles well, sure.. If they want a 2-seater or a convertible, not so much. I mentioned the RSX because power specs weren't that different, even though it's a bit heavier (210 hp, 147 lb-ft - pretty close, and it's a 2-door with rear seats). It probably doesn't handle as well. Look, I'm not saying it'll be a horrible car. It just won't be (IMHO) the "killer" car that propels Subaru to the top of the charts or anything. If they could keep this in the low $20Ks, this might sell a lot. At $28K+, they're competing with GTIs, Mazdaspeed 3s, WRXs, Genesis Coupes, etc. Heck, if it slips anymore, they'll be close to 370Z territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Look, I'm not saying it'll be a horrible car. It just won't be (IMHO) the "killer" car that propels Subaru to the top of the charts or anything. If they could keep this in the low $20Ks, this might sell a lot. At $28K+, they're competing with GTIs, Mazdaspeed 3s, WRXs, Genesis Coupes, etc. Heck, if it slips anymore, they'll be close to 370Z territory. No small 2 door coupe will propel any auto manufacturer to the top of the charts because they don't sell well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 With a 6-second 0-60, I'll pass. If I wanted a slow car, I'd buy something else. This car will be a waste, if it's not fast. It'll be the 240z failure of 2013. Single secretaries will buy it to think they are cool. Kids will buy them used in 5-10 years, to swap other engines into and race them. It'll fail to impress, and it'll fall into oblivion as the great car that was on the cusp, but never was. You can argue handling all you want, and if Auto-X is your only thing, then sure. Have fun playing catchup with S2000's and Miatas. Any mods you do to the Subiyota, will have been done to its competitors. And Mazda has been making the Miata two decades longer than the Subiyota coupe. If you want to compare it to an RX8, why? Why set sights so low? Hopefully there is an STI variant, because that's the only thing that'll turn this car into a real "cult classic" type. And if it IS going to be $28k, good luck. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 There are people taking the Miata to the track, and it's probably going to be the same kind of people that takes the BRZ to the track. It will be more about how fun it is to race against cars with similar power to weight ratio, and if the handling is good then it's possible to take on cars that are faster on paper, which makes it even more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 And if it IS going to be $28k, good luck. In this economy, there has to be a lot of value in any car on the market to bring in a buyer. Subaru can bring in buyers with the Outback, but lots of subaru buyers are returning customers. The likely hood a AWD subaru customer is going to jump on a RWD car with similar mpg specs to a outback are unlikely. So Subaru must be trying to atract new customers to the the brand. This is where Value comes in play. Subaru has a good reputation for reliability and that helps. But they are going to offer an edge over the other rwd coupes out there. I'm not putting the mustang in the same class as this car, but it is rwd and a coupe. It gets better hwy mpg and can be bought for a lot less than 28k. If Scion undercuts them (toyota has deeper pockets) things look a lot worse. Handling and suspension are great, but most consumers are concerned about ride quality. You don't have to give one up to get the other, but it is more expensive to have both. If the average car buyer is going to cut corners, then they will find a car with good ride quality and pay less. Sad but true. Allowing toyota to bring the car to the US as a Scion doesn't help much in perception of the car from the onset. Even the small niche market that subaru would be appealing to with a new Scirocco like coupe are in the pinch right now. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Truecar says I could buy either a base Mustang or Genisis 2.0T for less than 20k right now. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 With a 6-second 0-60, I'll pass. If I wanted a slow car, I'd buy something else. This car will be a waste, if it's not fast. It'll be the 240z failure of 2013. Single secretaries will buy it to think they are cool. Kids will buy them used in 5-10 years, to swap other engines into and race them. It'll fail to impress, and it'll fall into oblivion as the great car that was on the cusp, but never was. You can argue handling all you want, and if Auto-X is your only thing, then sure. Have fun playing catchup with S2000's and Miatas. Any mods you do to the Subiyota, will have been done to its competitors. And Mazda has been making the Miata two decades longer than the Subiyota coupe. If you want to compare it to an RX8, why? Why set sights so low? Hopefully there is an STI variant, because that's the only thing that'll turn this car into a real "cult classic" type. And if it IS going to be $28k, good luck. I completely agree, though for the autox angle, it depends on the class they put it in. i wouldnt put it in the same class as miatas or s2k's. depending on its eventual performance, it could be competitive in G-Stock against the newer civic SI's with similar power output. The car def needs a turbo variant to sell and be relevant in todays market. thator the car should be $22k not $28K+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Truecar says I could buy either a base Mustang or Genisis 2.0T for less than 20k right now. How accurate is truecar? Here in CA, it says they're around 20,xxx.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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