The B4 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 That's a misquote. It doesn't share much in common with the original engine. The Subaru version uses the same engine. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelacy Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ;D According to cars101.com, it is now called the BRZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ;D According to cars101.com, it is now called the BRZ. http://www.subaru-global.com/11frankfurt/teaser/ Subaru names its coupe BRZ as concept heads for Frankfurt (Autoblog) The teaser site says the technology concept reveal is Sept. 13. As for the name, it's awfully similar to CR-Z, another small Japanese coupe with sporty aspirations (not very sporty in its current form). Wonder if the name will stick for production. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelacy Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Oh, sorry! It seems I had an early case of PKs17-idice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADLEGACY11 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm thinking an Audi A5 2.0T for the next one...AWD and turbo....even though it is a VW :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithAkaMrak Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 TTAC interview with Toyota's Chief Engineer, re: the FT-86. Towards the end of the interview, it gets into the Toyota/Subaru collaboration, and the engine. Subaru will produce its own version, probably called the BRZ. Both companies also developed the car together, and that must have been an interesting exercise. Recalls Tada: “The first year was actually quite tough. The character and processes of the two companies are quite different. In the beginning, we sat down and decided who does what. That didn’t work out very well, because of the cultural differences between the companies. When people started to become more interested in the car itself, people from both sides ended up becoming one team. In the end, it wasn’t so much Toyota doing this and Subaru doing that, but people working together with one goal.” In the maniac, well, enthusiast scene, it is pretty much gospel that the cars use Subaru’s flat four “D4-S” boxer engine. Depending on whom you believe, the production engine ranges from a tried & true to a refined & modified D4-S. That elicits protests from Tada, as loud as the softspoken man can manage: “No,no, no – it is a completely new engine. The engine is still a boxer. The technology, even the engine block are completely new. Everything is new. The only thing that remained are the mounting points.” Imagine how much engineer’s pride that one did cost. A completely new engine was developed. At the same time it comes with an invitation to be swapped for whatever follows the Subaru bolt pattern. After years of concept cars, the production version of the FT-86 will debut at the Tokyo Motor Show, December 2 – December 11, 2011. “Next year” (most likely in spring), the car will be launched. It won’t be available in Japan first and years later elsewhere. It will, says Tada, be available next year “all over the world.” In the U.S., it will definitely [be] a Scion. In the rest of the world, it will be a Toyota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'm wondering what the specs are. And that's really ******* embarrassing to Subaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy360 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Just read a press release on Autoblog that states the Subaru version will have a 2.0 direct injection N/A motor. < SUBARU BRZ PROLOGUE - BOXER Sports Car Architecture II -> "SUBARU BRZ PROLOGUE" embodies the technology concept of the "SUBARU BRZ", currently under joint development with Toyota Motor Corporation. The architecture employs Subaru's new platform, built around its key component: the Horizontally-Opposed Boxer engine. It also features the totally new Subaru direct injection Boxer engine exclusively designed for the new sports car. The SUBARU BRZ PROLOGUE will showcase how Subaru's state-of-the-art engineering technology proposes to make the SUBARU BRZ deliver a "Pure Handling Delight" driving experience. Major Specifications Body size (Overall: Length x Width x Height): 4,200 x 1,770 x 1,270 mm Wheelbase: 2,570 mm Engine type: 2.0-liter direct injection naturally-aspirated four cylinder Horizontally-Opposed Boxer engine http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/31/subaru-teases-xv-crossover-ahead-of-frankfurt-debut/#continued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm wondering what the specs are. And that's really ******* embarrassing to Subaru How? all of the work on the engine was done by Subaru and Yamaha. It's not like Toyota took the engine and had their way with it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Essentially what they are saying Toyota: Hey Subaru! Let's make a sports car using your boxer engine! Subaru: OMG OK! Toyota: You show us everything you know about boxer motors and we'll share sports car technology. Subaru: OMG I'M SO HAPPYYYY! Can it have AWD???? Toyota: Nahhh Later down the road Subaru: So our boxer kicks ass huh!?! Toyota: Yeah about that...It's a good concept, but your version of it fails. We had to call in Yamaha to completely help us with the redesign. Subaru: Oh. You're saying our brand new bread and butter engine sucks? :tear: Toyota: Sorry Bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTDogg MA Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Miwa describes how the car was built with tuners and racers in mind Right, that's why it's NA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Subaru "BRZ-SHO" ??? All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 FT-86 SHO sounds about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight705 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Right, that's why it's NA if the engine is built to handle boost but comes NA from factory, then yes it is. I mean just look at how many people swap out turbos or install FMIC, or whatever on subaru's turbo'ed cars. if instead they could have started with that same motor, but in NA format, the cost would be lower during car purchase since subaru wouldn't have had to put in those parts. plus starting with NA can also help in that it is cheaper to run since any mods done to the engine doesn't usually require a dyno tune to prevent it from exploding. plus it can run on lower octane gasoline until the user installs a turbo/supercharger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Essentially what they are saying Toyota: Hey Subaru! Let's make a sports car using your boxer engine! Subaru: OMG OK! Toyota: You show us everything you know about boxer motors and we'll share sports car technology. Subaru: OMG I'M SO HAPPYYYY! Can it have AWD???? Toyota: Nahhh Later down the road Subaru: So our boxer kicks ass huh!?! Toyota: Yeah about that...It's a good concept, but your version of it fails. We had to call in Yamaha to completely help us with the redesign. Subaru: Oh. You're saying our brand new bread and butter engine sucks? :tear: Toyota: Sorry Bro Subaru and GM had NO synergy whatsoever. Subaru benefited from GM's supply chain, but was not able to offer GM anything other than the failed 9-2x and stillborn 9-6x. Subaru decided to be very proactive with Toyota from the get go to find ways to offer Toyota something that they weren't doing for themselves. Subaru approached Toyota with plans for this car. Subaru wanted a more sports car oriented platform, but it wouldn't have been profitable if it was Subaru only. This platform will more than likely underpin the next generation WRX and STI. Subaru also wanted direct injection and a high feature engine. Yamaha has done a lot of engine work for a lot of different OEM's. This has allowed Subaru to make an eco engine (FB) and an engine for sporty cars (BRZ engine). In the end, Toyota gets a much needed sports car, but Subaru was the one who benefited from the technology sharing. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 if the engine is built to handle boost but comes NA from factory, then yes it is. I mean just look at how many people swap out turbos or install FMIC, or whatever on subaru's turbo'ed cars. if instead they could have started with that same motor, but in NA format, the cost would be lower during car purchase since subaru wouldn't have had to put in those parts. plus starting with NA can also help in that it is cheaper to run since any mods done to the engine doesn't usually require a dyno tune to prevent it from exploding. plus it can run on lower octane gasoline until the user installs a turbo/supercharger While those might be fine marketing points, in reality: -to get anywhere near competitive performance from an NA engine, you'll have to run compression of 10-11.. Very different from turbo cars -various manifolds aren't ready to accept a turbo -other parts of the car won't be up to the stresses Having added a supercharger to an NA car, it was fun, it was also a LOT of headache. Adding a turbo is one level more complicated. Just the basic "lower compression" gaskets/inserts, various bits of intake/exhaust plumbing, will probably have to change injectors, fuel pump, maybe MAF.. I don't know if all NA ECUs contain support for boost-type features. That's a LOT of hassle to go through. And then - for a low-sales model, who is going to bother to develop all that. I know TRD SAID they were going to have a supercharger for the Scion TC, but I also know it was delayed over and over and still don't know for sure if it ever came out. And THEN try to get that past SMOG/CARB.. (CA is one of Subaru's bigger markets, I believe). In the end - unless this ends up being super popular, I don't see anyone developing a turbo kit for it. At least not a 50-state legal kit. And being NA only, it won't be that popular with Subaru fans... Yes, people CHANGE OUT TMIC->FMIC, swap turbos - because all the other plumbing is already there. Aftermarket manifolds are never as good as OEM, or they are expensive. Sure, this makes the original car cheaper, but who is going to pay $8,000 to turbo this thing to go from 200 hp to 280 or 300 hp? Why not just get a 370z and save a BUNCH of hassle? Personally, I don't see it - if there's never a factory turbo model, the percentage of people who add one later will be < 5%, in my opinion. And it will be expensive, and not ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 plus starting with NA can also help in that it is cheaper to run since any mods done to the engine doesn't usually require a dyno tune to prevent it from exploding. Well yes, but the car will still be slow as balls. Not a desirable result for tuners. ... until you go FI that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Well yes, but the car will still be slow as balls. Not a desirable result for tuners. ... until you go FI that is. Why on earth would it be slow? Let alone slow as balls? 2008 WRX Sedan: 3,142 lbs / 224 hp = 14.03 lbs per hp 2008 WRX 5 Door: 3,208 lbs/ 224 hp = 14.32 lbs per hp Subaru BRZ: 2,600 lbs/ 200 hp = 13 lbs per hp If it comes in anywhere near the weight and power it Toyota/Subaru says it will, it will probably be quicker than the pre 2009 WRX everywhere but 0-60... and that was still a sub 6 second 0-60 car. All while probably returning fuel economy similar to the new Impreza and handling better than anything Subaru has ever offered in the US. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyOldManMN Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Why on earth would it be slow? Let alone slow as balls? 2008 WRX Sedan: 3,142 lbs / 224 hp = 14.03 lbs per hp 2008 WRX 5 Door: 3,208 lbs/ 224 hp = 14.32 lbs per hp Subaru BRZ: 2,600 lbs/ 200 hp = 13 lbs per hp If it comes in anywhere near the weight and power it Toyota/Subaru says it will, it will probably be quicker than the pre 2009 WRX everywhere but 0-60... and that was still a sub 6 second 0-60 car. All while probably returning fuel economy similar to the new Impreza and handling better than anything Subaru has ever offered in the US. Uhhhh... we were talking about NA being "tuner friendly" compared to FI. Why are you quoting curb weight/hp ratios? I'll bite though. Now lets say you get $2000 for "tuning" mods. Which one do you choose? What do you suppose those figures are going to look like for each of those options after tuning is complete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I apologize. I didn't fully read the discussion you were having about modding. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I know TRD SAID they were going to have a supercharger for the Scion TC, but I also know it was delayed over and over and still don't know for sure if it ever came out. It was released in August 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 It was released in August 2005. Wow, so it did get released eventually.. I was interested in TC for a while, but the supercharger kept getting delayed and delayed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbc84 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 booo on no turbo and no AWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 TTAC interview with Toyota's Chief Engineer, re: the FT-86. Towards the end of the interview, it gets into the Toyota/Subaru collaboration, and the engine. Reading up on the D4-S I did see that it's a dual-injector solution for engines, one direct injection and one "normal" injector. And I suspect that it's to get the best of both worlds - low fuel consumption of direct injection and allow for better fuel mixture at high loads. And what they say officially about "new engine" - it's always a truth with modification. Take an existing engine block, change some features and replace everything inside and you have a "new engine". Or it may well be that this is just a variant of the FB engine but not in official speech to avoid marketing headaches. Realize how hard it would be for someone from Toyota to actually admit that it's a FB block in the engine they built. Of course - it may be the other way around - the FB was created from this engine. Just be aware that modern engine tech is extremely expensive due to emissions demands. Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithAkaMrak Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 New pics of camo-ed BRZ prototype (Autoblog). http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/09/02-subaru-brz.jpg http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/09/03-subaru-brz.jpg http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/09/07-subaru-brz.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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