Life of stock LGT shocks?

[Gmoe]

How long should I expect the stock LGT shocks to last? I'm considering a spring upgrade, but don't want to toss money into springs if the stock shocks are on the verge of death. I just assume let it die and get coilovers if that's the case. My cars got 63K on it and I drive it pretty tame.

 

Thinking about tossing on a set of Rallitek springs for the rest of the life of the stock shocks. Worth it?

[ronemus]

By 63k your shocks are on their last legs; they should be replaced if you do springs.

[Crossing509]

Good to see another Rochestarian posting. I have 45k on my '06 GT and I'm in the market for coilovers. Considering something entry level and [relatively] inexpensive like Tein Basic or BC Racing. I'm stage 2+ and want to eliminate the squat on acceleration and dive on braking - plus get a lower stance that can still handle our snow. Not quite sure what I want to do yet...

[mwiener2]

2005-2009 leggies aren't old enough yet. No one knows the expected life of the shocks.

[Gmoe]

Hey Crossing, what color are you? I'll keep my eye out.

 

I'm going stage 2 this Spring and am already tired of my headlights pointing to the sky when I mash the pedal at stage 1 even. I think at night, people in front of me think I'm flashing my high beams cause the lights suddently point up to their rear view when I stomp on it. lol Also considering an entry level coilover situation if I have to. I'm really just searching for a "flat" ride and if just springs will give it to me for now, the $200 or so dollar Rallitek springs would be perfect. But don't want those springs if I need new shocks too. I'll hunt down a set of bilstiens and pinks or something like that.

 

Well mwiener I know there are a lot of people with 100K+ miles on their 05+ LGTs. I'd think one or more of those people would know about when to expect failure. I can't imagine every LGT owner with aftermarket springs got them just because they wanted to, not because they had to.

 

Opinions are everywhere on what suspension setup is "the best"... I just don't want to upgrade a failing stock setup if I can help it. Past car experience has told me that when your powertrain warranty is up...you can pretty much expect shocks to be about shot too. But this is just my own experience, no real data behind that.

[mattg]

I know at least 1 of mine has been leaking since at least 50k miles (63k now). I've been lowered on STi pinks since ~5k.

[mwiener2]

 

Well mwiener I know there are a lot of people with 100K+ miles on their 05+ LGTs. I'd think one or more of those people would know about when to expect failure. I can't imagine every LGT owner with aftermarket springs got them just because they wanted to, not because they had to.

 

I will bet some serious cash that with the exception of a handful of people, anyone that put springs on their car did it because they wanted to, not because they had to. Actually... no one HAD to put aftermarket anythign on their car. They chose to. Those people with 100k+ miles... their shocks still work.

 

 

mattg - Those lowering springs couldn't possibly have anything to do with premature failure.... could they?

[Gmoe]

I will bet some serious cash that with the exception of a handful of people, anyone that put springs on their car did it because they wanted to, not because they had to. Actually... no one HAD to put aftermarket anythign on their car. They chose to. Those people with 100k+ miles... their shocks still work.

 

 

mattg - Those lowering springs couldn't possibly have anything to do with premature failure.... could they?

 

I bet you're right. Especially in this forum. It's a gradual progression of suckiness with the stock setup I think, so I can't even tell if mine are worse than when I bought the car with 28K and if aftermarket springs will push them to failure.

 

I guess I could rephrase the question, but it still speaks to the same point.

Is it worth putting Rallitek springs on my stock shocks with 63K on them?

[subiedad51]

I agree. I'm stage 2 but have the stock suspension at 83k and the struts are still fine. I'm now planning my suspension upgrades; F&R Sways, endlinks, springs and struts. I'm not going the coilover route since it's my daily driver so I just want to tighten the ride up a bit and drop it slightly.

[subiedad51]

I agree. I'm stage 2 but have the stock suspension at 83k and the struts/springs are still fine. I'm now planning my suspension upgrades; F&R Sways, endlinks, springs and struts. I'm not going the coilover route since it's my daily driver so I just want to tighten the ride up a bit and drop it slightly.

[eldiablo]

68k on my stock shocks - 48k of those miles with aftermarket springs and shocks are fine. I'd say go for it.

[N.sane]

If I could do it all over again, I'd save up and do the shocks at the same time, and I'd suggest the same for you. The stock shocks are simply too under dampened for aftermarket springs. I mean, they arent that great with the stock springs either...

 

Seriously though, do both and the same time and you'll thank yourself later.

[whitetiger]

How long should I expect the stock LGT shocks to last? I'm considering a spring upgrade, but don't want to toss money into springs if the stock shocks are on the verge of death. I just assume let it die and get coilovers if that's the case. My cars got 63K on it and I drive it pretty tame.

 

Thinking about tossing on a set of Rallitek springs for the rest of the life of the stock shocks. Worth it?

 

 

forget the springs. get koni insets. that will be the end of your shock issues. you can put springs on later. if you put aftermerket springs on worn out stock shocks , you wont be happy.

[schwinn]

If I could do it all over again, I'd save up and do the shocks at the same time, and I'd suggest the same for you. The stock shocks are simply too under dampened for aftermarket springs. I mean, they arent that great with the stock springs either...

 

Seriously though, do both and the same time and you'll thank yourself later.

 

Stiffer springs means you need better shocks... the stockers won't last with stiffer springs. You should always consider springs and struts a "matched set" - they work together to provide the proper suspension behavior.

 

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/shocking-behavior/

[c-lo]

well then I've got all you guys beat! I've got 134k on mine and my stock suspension is ok. every now and then going over speed bumps I hear some noise, but other than that they are fine.

 

even had my subie mechanic give me his opinion and he agreed with me.

[bluesuby]

forget the springs. get koni insets. that will be the end of your shock issues. you can put springs on later. if you put aftermerket springs on worn out stock shocks , you wont be happy.

 

Exactly what I'm thinking. I don't want to lower my car or go with stiffer springs on a daily driver. I figure Konis might firm things up without going too radical.

[mwiener2]

I've got 134k on mine and my stock suspension is ok. every now and then going over speed bumps I hear some noise, but other than that they are fine.

 

that's most likely the sway bar bushing creaking. They just need some lube

[Legend]

I've suspected I need new shocks. Tein s-techs for at least the last 3-4 years and 40-50k miles. Car has 68k now. Is there a tell-tale sign you need new shocks?

 

On a different note, I've got a bad front wheel bearing... the car is going in Thurs. Ack.. should be close to $400 since apparently the front wheel bearing is part of the hub assembly. Think it's front left... had snow tires rotated and re-balanced and still have rotation-dependent noise coming from front left. I eliminated an out-of-balance tire from the equation.

[mwiener2]

push down on car. it should rise back to it's normal position and stay there. If it bounces up and down, you need new shocks.

 

very minimal bounce is ok. anything more than that... the more, the worse they are

[Legend]

push down on car. it should rise back to it's normal position and stay there. If it bounces up and down, you need new shocks.

 

very minimal bounce is ok. anything more than that... the more, the worse they are

 

So I tried this. I couldn't push down on the top of the fender with enough force to depress the suspension at all. I popped the hood and pushed with much greater force and was able to get the suspension to depress a quarter to a half inch or so... borderline nothing. It rose back up without bouncing. But I'm not sure I passed the test since there is almost no travel.

 

On another note, I had my Wrangler shocks replaced this summer. The old shocks on there didn't do anything. I removed one and no matter what position it was in (fully out or fully in) it did nothing... I could push it all the way in without much force or pull it fully out and it would stay in whatever position I put it in.. fully removed.

[mwiener2]

I could push it all the way in without much force or pull it fully out and it would stay in whatever position I put it in.. fully removed.

 

so imagine sticking a big ass spring on that blown shock and then put alot of weight on it. the shock basically isn't there and the spring bounces up and down. that's what the push test is trying to accomplish.

[choppedair]

I only have 11k miles on my lgt and the shocks feel like garbage. The suspension on this car is way too soft in all aspects, IMO. One of the first things I do when I get a new truck is install bilstein shocks and the ride/handling is 10x better than stock.

The lgt shocks do a poor job of dampening to begin with, I would hate to see what it feels like to run a higher spring rate with stock shocks, especially with some miles on them. Best to do shocks and springs at the same time and get the best response from both items.

[c-lo]

so imagine sticking a big ass spring on that blown shock and then put alot of weight on it. the shock basically isn't there and the spring bounces up and down. that's what the push test is trying to accomplish.

 

think of an old car doing over a speed bump and the car continues to bounce after it's gone over.

[schwinn]

push down on car. it should rise back to it's normal position and stay there. If it bounces up and down, you need new shocks.

 

very minimal bounce is ok. anything more than that... the more, the worse they are

I have read that the bounce-test cannot be done reliably on strut-based suspensions. For example, see the second post here: http://archive.grassrootsmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=26966

 

I think shocks can be bounce-tested, but not struts?

 

That being said, a bounce test can sometimes tell you that the strut is totally blown... but passing that test doesn't mean it's definitely fine either.

 

Please do correct me if I'm wrong (citations appreciated... I'm still digging for "scientific proof" of this as well).

 

EDIT: More data...

http://www.motortrend.com/womt/112_9707_car_care_tips/index.html

A common way to "test" a shock is to perform a "bounce test" at each corner of the vehicle. Doing one corner at a time, firmly push down on it several times and let go on a downstroke. If the vehicle returns immediately to its original height and stops, that shock could still be in workable shape; if the corner bounces up and down a little-two or more times-before coming to a rest, the shock needs replacing. Keep in mind, though, that this is a "worst-case scenario"; despite a notable loss of damping in all of our test vehicles, none outright failed the bounce test." (emphasis mine)

EDIT2: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68514

The so-called "bounce test" only tells you if a shock will control a car

while negotiating "Mickey D" parking lot speed bumps at less than five mph

with a carload of rug rats and Happy Meals.

 

"Hand-testing" a shock off the car moves the shaft at a velocity of

approximately one-half i.p.s.

 

A shock can "feel" good at slow "bounce-test" or "hand-test" speeds of one

i.p.s. or less because it is only passing fluid through its designed,

low-speed, bleed orifices and/or bypassing the seals, but be a complete

failure at higher shaft velocities once it gets up onto the

valving....sometimes, actually providing less resistance at five i.p.s.

then at "bounce-test" velocities once the valves open up.

 

On a smooth road, the shocks will likely be working in the 2-6 i.p.s. shaft

velocity range....which simply cannot be duplicated by bouncing on the

bumper of the car.

 

(stuff deleted)

 

Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E. <><

Race Car Chassis Analysis & Setup Services

Chassis Blueprinting Services (as in engine blueprinting)

[naimouasta]

^ i agree. my subaru mechanic always tells me struts usually never go bad when i said my dad's forester needed new struts. it passed the bounce test and everything. i changed it out anyway and guess what? they were completely dead. with the spring off, push the strut down and it wont even come back up, you have to pull it up. if you notice that you car is lower in the morning over night, most likely struts are dead.