IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think you misunderstood. Most SBC fans, including yourself at other times... have claimed advantage on several points, one of which being the SBC is lighter than other V8 engines, of lesser displacement usually. Be that a Ford V8, a Hemi, a Mercedes AMG powerplant, or whatever. When discussing other high output engines, the SBC often is touted as being lighter weight. As I posted earlier, the LS7 is less than 50 lbs lighter than the old AMG 5.4 liter supercharged engine, and less than 100lbs lighter than the BMW V10 M5 engine, and the Renesis is MORE than 100lbs lighter than the LS7 in turn. You don't get to claim that "less than 100lbs ain't [significant]" now when we are talking about the rotary being lighter, when at other occaisions, SBC fans, including yourself, have claimed benefit for the SBC being lighter, in previous arguments. Either it counts or it doesn't. And yes, it counts. It is a matter of consistency, you can't claim a benefit at one time, and then deny it later when something else claims that same benefit, and the figures support it. And maybe, just maybe, someone would give up the torque advantage and, and be willing to do a little extra for their car's maintenance, to have a unique piece of automobilia, and a device that revs higher, faster and smoother, in a smaller, lighter package. Some people have a different outlook than you do. And If I, like you did, were to tell you to go talk to people, who tend to be rotary enthusiasts... They would probably tell you that the rotary engine IS one of the best qualities of the RX7. Some of them would abhor the thought of even a mazda-brand piston engine in an RX car. I am not disputing numbers about that, that is a subjective preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Why am i still arguing with you? Your wrong, people other than me have told you this, i have showed cars that have had both compared, people who have actually done the swap have told you your wrong and yet you, someone who has never even built a car much less a rotary or anything with a aluminum block v8 are trying to tell people with real world knowldge that there wrong. Its called ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 People other than you, and you yourself haven't proven a damn thing in terms of engine weight, and that is the only point that I am contending that you are wrong about. I am not arguing about torque, and I am not even really pressing the biased opinion about reliability. I have posted weight figures, and you keep dancing around it and calling me ignorant, when I am the only one who has brought data to back myself up. I am 'ignoring' nothing. I have posted data, you, and others like you have posted conjecture and anecdote from people who have a vested interest in justifying themselves. If there is real world knowledge that isn't just conjecture, then POST THE FRAKKING DATA! Not he-said, she-said bullshit that isn't proof of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You moron, i showed what the weight was Pushrod Vs.Rotor '01 General Motors LS1'95 Mazda 13B-REWTypeOverhead valve, pushrod V-82-rotor, Wankel design,twin-sequential turbochargedDisplacement5665cc (346ci) 1308cc (80ci)Cost$6,400 (new/crate)$2,000 (used)$2,000-$2,500 (rebuilt)$1,100-$2,000 (used)Weight487 pounds425 poundsMaterial aluminum block/aluminum headsaluminum block/iron rotorsHorsepower* (bhp)350 @ 5600 rpm255 @ 7000 rpmTorque*(ft-lb)375 @ 4400 rpm220 @ 5000 rpmRedline*6000 rpm8000 rpmMPG**19 City/28 Highway17 City/25 HighwayAftermarket SupportThe Chevy small-block practically invented the aftermarketHigh, but not LS1 high ls1- Weight487 pounds rx7-425 pounds= 62 lbs Here i will even copy and paste that shit for you You were also comparing the renesis which si the rx-8 engine, which is indeed lighter than the rx-7 engine so your numbers arent even usign the correct engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I am not even really pressing the biased opinion about reliability Dude even rx-7 owners on the rx-7 forums will admit the rotary isnt a reliable engine. My friends with rx-7s and even rx-8s complain about oil comsuption and seal problems all day and night. Your the only one who doesnt think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ls1- Weight487 pounds rx7-425 pounds= 62 lbs. Here i will even copy and paste that shit for you I didn't argue with you about the aftermarket availability. and thanks for the formatting, btw... But 62 pounds lighter, is 62 pounds lighter. That is STILL a larger margin than was listed between the LS7 engine weight I posted earlier (which was ~30lbs lighter than the LS1 you list...) and other MB, BMW and other engines. The difference between 13B-REW and Renesis roughly equates to removing the turbos, and lightening some components made the Renesis 81lbs lighter than 13B-REW. Pounds are Pounds. You are making MY point. Dude even rx-7 owners on the rx-7 forums will admit the rotary isnt a reliable engine. My friends with rx-7s and even rx-8s complain about oil comsuption and seal problems all day and night. Your the only one who doesnt think so And what about "not pressing" do you not understand? I don't think they are as bad as your anecdotal examples of your "freind" earlier, but I was TELLING YOU that I WASN'T REALLY DISAGREEING ON THAT POINT. You even argue about me NOT ARGUING WITH YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Does that include the turbo, intercooler and related piping? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I never said it was lighter, i said damn near as light, if you wouldnt trade 62lbs for a more reliable, better/easier power to make, better powerband, less headaches engine then you sir are a dumbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Does that include the turbo, intercooler and related piping? They didnt say but im sure the intercooler and piping wasnt all hooked up thats just asking for trouble The benifits far outway the negative, this is what you need to understand. Mainly because there is no negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ~80lbs between Renesis (344) sans turbos, and 13B-REW (425) with turbos... Turbochargers don't weigh 80lbs, or even 40lbs. I would venture a guess that there is more hardware than just turbos different between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Who cares, your wrong. Please swallow and knife and end this thread:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I never said it was lighter, i said damn near as light, if you wouldnt trade 62lbs for a more reliable, better/easier power to make, better powerband, less headaches engine then you sir are a dumbass Hey, I have been trying VERY hard not to call you names at any given moment. I think we can leave that out. And I don't think you want to call anyone who wants to leave a stock-type engine in their RX7, or whatever else kind of car, a dumbass. Again, if you like SBCs so much, Corvettes, G8s, Camaros, Firebirds, whatever else already exist. Have at them. It is bad form to chastize other people with other preferences. Just because everyone in the enthusiast community doesn't immediately put a chevy engine into every car they can open the hood of, doesn't make those people stupid. Who cares, your wrong. Please swallow and knife and end this thread:lol: You just admitted I was right, a second ago. That the rotary is lighter... Now I am wrong again? BTW, Learn to write, spell, and type, so that people can actually tell what you mean. Have you read a single word I have said? Some people have different tastes than you, and thank God for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I didnt call you a dumbass, i said if you wouldnt trade all the problems of the rx-7 which is its ENGINE for a great engine and have the best of both worlds aka, a light car that handles like a dream and can be driven as hard as you want with tons of power then your a dumbass. People can keep the rotary if they want, but its my right and opinion to tell them how there wrong for doing so. This argument wasnt about which was lighter, i never said the rotary was heavier i said it was damn close and you came back with how can engine the size of a watermelon with blah blah be the same weight as 5.7 liter with blah blah. And i showed and told you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ~80lbs between Renesis (344) sans turbos, and 13B-REW (425) with turbos... Turbochargers don't weigh 80lbs, or even 40lbs. I would venture a guess that there is more hardware than just turbos different between the two. Do you have numbers to support this or are you just making it up? I sure hope you aren't a scientist or engineer Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No, you didn't. You are incorrect. I was arguing about engine weight. that means it was about which was lighter. That is intrinsically what it means. You showed me that they are not at all the same weight. They are 62lbs different by YOUR figures. That is more of a weight advantage than SBC has over other non-rotary performance engines. Now please. Let the SBC move on to some other thread. this is a re:MAZDA thread. If there is anything else remarkable at all about the boring giddy-smiling Mazdaspeed 3, please, someone for the love of pete, post something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You do know that the renesis rotary is an aluminium engine? Maybe thats where the weight difference is lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No, you didn't. You are incorrect. I was arguing about engine weight. that means it was about which was lighter. That is intrinsically what it means. You showed me that they are not at all the same weight. They are 62lbs different by YOUR figures. That is more of a weight advantage than SBC has over other non-rotary performance engines. Now please. Let the SBC move on to some other thread. this is a re:MAZDA thread. If there is anything else remarkable at all about the boring giddy-smiling Mazdaspeed 3, please, someone for the love of pete, post something... So you don't know the weight of the turbo, intercooler and piping? Figures Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You do know that the renesis rotary is an aluminium engine? Maybe thats where the weight difference is lol Pounds are pounds. 80lbs off for cutting turbos and going to aluminum, if that is the case, is 80lbs. ~60lbs for 13B-REW, is 60lbs. 110+lbs for the Renesis... is still lighter weight. Do you have numbers to support this or are you just making it up? I sure hope you aren't a scientist or engineer Those specific figures were earlier in this thread, some of them from 05GTGuru. Good grief man, can you even read? You criticize others, and then you pull crap like that? C'mon. Get real. Now I have TWICE tried to go back to the topic. If I ask a third time, can we really get back on track? Is the third time the charm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I doubt it. How can you just throw numbers around without some sort of backup? Do you have any links? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 weight numbers be damned the small block Chevy engine in all it forms over the years has won more races than any engine in the world. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j255c Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Dude even rx-7 owners on the rx-7 forums will admit the rotary isnt a reliable engine. My friends with rx-7s and even rx-8s complain about oil comsuption and seal problems all day and night. Your the only one who doesnt think so neither is the subaru boxer engine when you're asking 550hp out of it. 06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Anyone try putting a Briggs and Stratton Raptor in an RX? That is one damn light motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Anyone try putting a Briggs and Stratton Raptor in an RX? That is one damn light motor. :lol: I've got a Tecumseh Snow King! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 :lol: I've got a Tecumseh Snow King! Tecumseh iz da BOMB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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