Gauging interest: Regular Guy lowering springs for 05-08 Legacy GT and Spec-Biz

[Siper2]

I take it that "regular guys" aren't interested in committing to as-yet-not-in-production springs with no promise what the rate will be, or what the drop will be, or what the price will be.

 

Myles, has this approach worked well in the past?

 

So to speak, yes.

 

http://www.racecompengineering.com/item.asp?subcategory=Springs

 

 

 

Racecomp Engineering Black "Regular Guy" Springs

Introducing the RCE Regular Guy Springs (RCE Blacks), an OEM replacement spring for 2004-2007 Subaru WRX STi and the next in the Racecomp Engineering growing line of performance springs for Subaru Impreza, Subaru Legacy, and Mitsubishi Evolution. Designed for use with standard STi inverted struts or Ohlins Fixed Perch Replacement Struts, these springs are intended for both the daily driven street driver as well as the autocross and track day weekend warrior. Using similar spring rates as the extremely popular and successful RCE Yellow Springs, but having a much more subtle/mild drop in comparison, these are perfect for STi owners not looking for a ride height much lower then stock, and yet are still looking for increased spring rates. Spring rates are still 10% stiffer then JDM Pinks with an emphasis on the rear rate, so you will still be outpacing just about everything on the track and auto-x course.

 

When installing these springs, some addtional NVH may be experienced do to increased spring rate.

 

Price: $329.00

 

 

The Impreza "RG" springs are what inspired these, in the first place.

[Mungo]

Interested, particularly if packaged with some high quality struts. For an 05 wagon in case you're counting.

[Mindspin311]

I think the issue is that RCE has basically said "if we produce a 'regular guy' type spring, will you buy it?"

 

But, no one wants to commit to it unless they actually know what they're getting.

 

Now, if they came out and said, the RG spring would be X rate and Y drop, who's interested? Im sure they would get a better response.

 

But, of course, they wont do that because it will cost them money to proto a spring and it will be all for not if no one buys it after they put the effort in.

[RaceComp Engineering]

So we aren't gauging "commitments" yet....just interest. And trying to see what people are looking for specifically. We've seen some good ideas and gotten good feedback but the Legacy is a tricky market compared to Impreza and EVO.

 

It takes time and money to develop a spring....if anyone finalized rates and drops (and the other stuff that goes on behind the scenes in producing a spring....i.e. progressive sections) and had a spring ready for people to commit to in less then 2 months from starting a "Gauging Interest" thread, I'd be skeptical.

 

We don't just pick numbers and get the spring made....we take a lot of measurements, develop and install a prototype, test, take more measurements, develop and install the next prototype, take more measurements, and so on. It's not cheap....the price we pay for 1 off prototype springs is not so good. And this economy definitely puts a damper on our R&D budget and we don't want to half ass things.

 

The thing is we can't just make a handful of springs for small amount of people in a very short amount of time. That would be wonderful but its not how it works. So the Legacy makes it even more difficult because we have to think about what to do with sedan vs. wagon, AT vs. MT, 5 spd vs 6 spd, Bilstein HD vs. Koni vs. Tokico, etc.

 

So yes we have some positive feedback in a mild drop, increased spring rate spring, but have some ways to go before we can give you a final product or even specs on that final product.

 

We'll try and keep everyone posted.

 

- andrew

[goneskiian]

No worries, I'm patient.

[ShadowImg]

RCE -

Have you guys considered just picking the strut you'd most like to work with in this application, sourcing them, and offering a package? I can see the strut matching concern, and the wagon and sedan differences, but I think the transmission weight probably isn't that big of a deal. The AT and 6MT I think weigh about the same, and the 5MT is only maybe <100lbs lighter? Ultimately I would think that wheel weight variation would make more impact than the tranny weight, so I think you guys can choose to ignore it?

I'd really love to see this happen, and I'd honestly rather hear your opinion on what you think is the best strut choice for the 'regular guy' in the Legacy who wants a good susp setup in general. Keep it comin!

[Siper2]

If that were done, I'd probably say the Bilstein HD would be the best bet. They seem to be the popular choice. 5 Star Performance has a package with the struts, spec.B tops & hardware, which most people here are aware of.

[RaceComp Engineering]

. So the Legacy makes it even more difficult because we have to think about what to do with sedan vs. wagon, AT vs. MT, 5 spd vs 6 spd, Bilstein HD vs. Koni vs. Tokico, etc.

 

- andrew

 

First of all forgive me guys for not seeing this thread. We moved and this has been a crazy slow, yet busy month. No phone for about a week due to the move etc.

 

I quoted Drew because THAT is the key here. And to answer the gentlemen who asked about making it a package with one shock?..well thats fine, but that leave ALOT of others out in the cold AND there are not enough still in need of springs to fill orders the way one would need to for this to be worth the time. So in many ways WE are to blame for not doing it say 3 years ago this time. Its just harder than most realize.

 

And for the record I very much eluded to what the drop and rate would "kind of" be in the very beginning. No worries though.

 

If I had my way..I would break into Bilstein USA West and modify all the OEM 3.0R Bilstein rears to have the snap ring that the older Bilsteins had on VW's that allowed for height adjustment. Combine the added travel of the fronts being OEM and NOT HD's and the wagon owners would be able to adjust the rear clips for weight and or just wagon weight. Done deal. I would also shim up the valving to my personal specs and build about 100 sets in the middle of the night and ship them to me via paid truckers and then be done with it. Oh I would leave them some double stuff oreo's and a glass of milf and a note...." Dear Bilstein...we did what you would NOT do for a small group of enthusiast..signed..."Billy the kid"......"

 

 

Ok just kidding.

 

Myles

 

ps. damn,now I want some oreo's !!

[RaceComp Engineering]

...and so that everyone else feels this urge....

 

http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/education/assets/oreos.jpg

[ShadowImg]

I understand what you're saying on the leaving people out, but that's not really what I was suggesting. I think it's worth investigating (to get the ball rolling) if you simply took one of those combinations above based on the people who sent you interest, and going with that, I think you might end up actually creating further interest there. Hopefully it's enough to get the first design out, and then maybe causing enough to start working on the second option?

 

If those variables didn't exist, such as this scenario, would it change anything in the ability to work on it? Sometimes offering too many options can be a bad thing for gauging interest/response.

[Siper2]

Mmmmmmmmmm...........Oreos......

[RaceComp Engineering]

I understand what you're saying on the leaving people out, but that's not really what I was suggesting. I think it's worth investigating (to get the ball rolling) if you simply took one of those combinations above based on the people who sent you interest, and going with that, I think you might end up actually creating further interest there. Hopefully it's enough to get the first design out, and then maybe causing enough to start working on the second option?

 

If those variables didn't exist, such as this scenario, would it change anything in the ability to work on it? Sometimes offering too many options can be a bad thing for gauging interest/response.

 

I get what you are saying, but I took that attitude with the RCE wagon springs and Evo springs and we sat on them for a YEAR. They sold no where near like the STI springs. 4 to 1 actually. So I have to think this way. But ihavent given up so no worries. I am meeting with my team of advisors this weekend to discuss the issues at hand.

 

I call them my "Motorsport Cabinet".

 

Myles:)

[SBT]

But ihavent given up so no worries. I am meeting with my team of advisors this weekend to discuss the issues at hand.

 

I call them my "Motorsport Cabinet".

 

Myles:)

 

There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. Hopefully we'll see something positive on the LGT front emerging from your weekend cabal.

[Siper2]

I get what you are saying, but I took that attitude with the RCE wagon springs and Evo springs and we sat on them for a YEAR. They sold no where near like the STI springs. 4 to 1 actually. So I have to think this way. But ihavent given up so no worries. I am meeting with my team of advisors this weekend to discuss the issues at hand.

 

I call them my "Motorsport Cabinet".

 

Myles:)

 

Just shooting from the hip here, but how many of those did you produce?

 

Is there a minimal number that you have to have made?

 

Just wondering if a smaller run can be produced, since certainly I can see why Impreza springs would outsell Legacy ones.

[BT4]

Why not just use the KW Variant 1 setup and do a custom run on the springs? It appears that the dampners are excellent and adjustable. Height is adjustable. All we need is a spring that is close to the stock LGT spring rate. And if what you said in an earlier post is correct, that when adjusted near stock height the KW Variant 1 has more suspension travel than the stock setup?

It would seem to me that this would be the ultimate setup, and would probably get everyone to stop wishing they owned a BMW.

 

Anyway, I for one would drop $1600 in a second if I beleived I was going to achieve a more compliant ride with less NVH and slightly improved handling.

[RaceComp Engineering]

We already do a custom KW coilover called the RCE Tarmac 1's that's a little over 1600.

 

We're aiming for something that as a complete package with struts would be well under that.

 

- andrew

[BT4]

Sounds promising. I am aware of your T1 kit, but I have read comments that lead me to beleive the ride is harsher than the stock suspension, and I am not willing to sacrifice any ride comfort in the name of performance. With the stock setup, I can can push this car plenty fast around turns. I am going to have to ride in some member cars around here I guess. Just trying to avoid expensive experimentation....

[SBT]

BT4 - PM me and we'll get together and you can drive mine.

[BT4]

Subietonic, sounds like a plan. Thanks.

[RaceComp Engineering]

^ That's the kind of thing we like to see.

 

For one of our meets we held, half the group was enjoying the hotdogs, playing GT5 on the projector, looking at cars etc.....and the other half was swapping cars and trying out new suspensions. Good day. That's what happens when you have a suspension and brakes focused shop and customer base.

 

- Andrew

[Siper2]

Yeah sounds good. I was bummed that we missed your meet, this year. Really wanted to come.

[Mindspin311]

We're aiming for something that as a complete package with struts would be well under that.

 

Now when could we expect that?

[Siper2]

Now when could we expect that?

 

 

Well, if you check the rest of the thread, this whole thing is to gather interest. They won't know that for sure.

[RaceComp Engineering]

Why not just use the KW Variant 1 setup and do a custom run on the springs? It appears that the dampners are excellent and adjustable. Height is adjustable. All we need is a spring that is close to the stock LGT spring rate. And if what you said in an earlier post is correct, that when adjusted near stock height the KW Variant 1 has more suspension travel than the stock setup?

It would seem to me that this would be the ultimate setup, and would probably get everyone to stop wishing they owned a BMW.

 

Anyway, I for one would drop $1600 in a second if I beleived I was going to achieve a more compliant ride with less NVH and slightly improved handling.

 

Here is the issue with all of this. Travel is SUPER limited. The reason the stock runs the rates it does and the height is due to travel in the shock. So yes while the Tarmac 1 has more travel and the damper is good...the actual car model doesnt have much travel. So the second you go softer and softer you run out of travel. Most here prob dont realize how often they are on the bump stops, especially in a lowered car. So its super challenging.

 

As for some opinions about the Tarmac 1 being harsher than stock. Well in some ways over some bumps yes...but others ..not so much. The thing that happens when you ask someone what ride height do you want......most want their car lower than it really should be. This is the suspension devil at work as the lower you set things the worse the ride quality gets and the more it bottoms out. RIOT set his almost stock ride height and man does it ride very good and handles very well. We try to send the T1's out with a super conservative drop. But I know most adjust them lower.

 

Fact is this: in this car the rear NEEDS to be firm to prevent it from bottoming out. So when you back into this process, you cant have the rear FIRM and the front super soft. The front to rear frequency is already

"just ok" for a production car. This is due to the shock rear and strut front and the motion ratio of the rear mutli link. So in reality this car REALLY excells with a FIRM rear( that didnt sound right). So a 450 front and 500 rear would ROCK on a Legacy. But for comfort its a TALL order to get it perfect for all people , all roads, all the time. In essence a short coming of Subaru....BUT..they NEVER intended for the car to be lowered. So not really a short coming. Thing is the car "looks" great lowered but handling suffers if the rates arent firm.

 

sorry I rambled.

 

Myles

[BT4]

Well thanks for explaining the travel thing. I sort of suspected this from watching all the rally setups. I have had enough lowered cars to be tired of the look. Now instead of the one night stand approach, I am looking for a dependable suspension that I can marry. Not one that nags me all the way to work !!