GT-R Fanbois - Enjoy this Read

[ItalynStylion]

Each magazine seems to be biased to a different company or style of car, its strange. We need something that tells it like it is. There is no way there shoudl be a 9mph difference in the 1/4mile with a auto car

Lets start our own....who wants in?

[chenc544]

http://i30.tinypic.com/21o3tj5.jpg

 

 

The results clearly show they have a BMW bias. Who the efff cares about back seat room when purchasing any of these cars? Rebates was a category....seriously? And how exactly does one define the "gotta have it" factor?

 

Holy cow look at those categories, no wonder the GT-R and the 911 turbo lost to the M3. Those are not categories for comparison test of serious performance cars. Heck, I bet a Buick will do well against the GT-R and 911 turbo using those categories.

[05GT Guru]

Yeah they might aswell through a 1990 new yorker in there, it has cushions in the seats they are soo comfy, and it may loose on the track by a couple minutes each lap but it has a good amount of room in the back

[Gire]

Read the R&T story: GT-R vs 911 Turbo vs. Z06. The cars were comparable in performance except on the track (buttonwillow) where the GT-R SPANKED the other two by 5-6 seconds/lap. Mommy!

 

 

"Please Sir! May I have another!!"

[05GT Guru]

I like cheesecake, though it doesnt taste like cheese

[neelnug]

I agree about US magazines... their performance reviews are utter crap. Try reading CAR, EVO or other European magazines. The writing is far superior and they tell it how it is.

M3 > 911TT due to utility and features???????? What fools. Waste of paper.

EVERY 911 TT owner I know has 3+ cars. I don't need C&D, R&T etc. telling me that the 911 isn't a great double date car.

The GTR buyer will be affluent buyers who either have other options in their driveway or don't care about back seat space.

 

Last week I got a ride in a 750hp Acura NSX. It was amazing. Based on the review criteria above the NSX is crap because of the Meth injection and oil tank in the trunk take up too much space. The engine controller mounted on the firewall limited seat travel slightly and the stereo stinks.

[Gire]

^^^

Yes. Car and Driver would have compared this NSX to a Dodge Caliper SRT4 (or something equally as silly) and the Dodge would have smoked it in the ratings.

 

I'm just glad C&D is taking a beating over this article in the press and online.

 

 

 

Edit- I can't wait for C&D to review the new X6. Has anyone seen one of these monstrosities in real life yet? C&D will probably love it, and tell us that it's the best crossover ever conceived by man. It's bizarre and hideous all at the same time.

[Penguin]

Edit- I can't wait for C&D to review the new X6. Has anyone seen one of these monstrosities in real life yet? C&D will probably love it, and tell us that it's the best crossover ever conceived by man. It's bizarre and hideous all at the same time.

 

Yeah I'm not too hot on the new X6, it seems to have rather limited value as a practical or useful transportation device over say a 5 series sedan or wagon.

 

Now that new twin turbo 4.4L V8 with the exhaust/turbocharger arrangement in the valley of the two cylinder heads is supposed to be one honking steaming sonofabitch though. Stick that in a 5 series or 6 series, and let Mr. Dinan and a few others have their way with it....

[eqt2010]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/scoop-letter-from-car-and-driver-to-nissan-leaked-to-ttac/

[bdisco]

http://germancarscene.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-x6-16-12-07.jpg

 

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/05.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg

[ItalynStylion]

That X6 is ugly has hell but fast! It did 0-60 in 4.8 and low 13's for the 1/4. It's unreal...especially the styling.

[ItalynStylion]

and yes....the aztec is still the ugliest car on teh planet

[BDII]

Car and Driver are BMW snobs

 

 

+1

 

Car and Driver is the automotive version of FOX news.

 

all bullshit.

[Guest JessterCPA]

^^ Don;t forget about their Honda love either.

[jvento]

And not only did they say brake fade was the problem but. They said that streeing feel was not the same as the last two version of the M3 too.

[Penguin]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/scoop-letter-from-car-and-driver-to-nissan-leaked-to-ttac/

 

 

:lol:

[korpsepatrol]

ROFL

"The month after that, the Nissan Sentra will win against the Lotus Exige. Of course, we need to keep our journalistic integrity. So we'll use the base Exige vs. the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V. The little Lotus won't stand a chance. I mean have you seen the back seat in an Exige? No, you haven't, because there isn't one. The trunk? Tiny! Rear doors? Nada! The Nissan Sentra is obviously the superior car. A lot of automotive reporting outlets don't have the courage to compare an Exige to a Sentra, but we think it's time–once again– to put your money where our mouth is."

 

That paragraph from the http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/scoop-letter-from-car-and-driver-to-nissan-leaked-to-ttac/

is hilarious.

[Guest JessterCPA]

True genius.

[slimjoe]

Hmm, so if we pull out all the BS categories, then it looks something like:

 

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8739/bmwnissanporschenobsbj9.jpg

[tytek]

Not sure why BMW got 19pts for performance... on par with the GTR, being the slowest car of the bunch??!! Is RWD that much better?

[IwannaSportSedan]

GT-R is heavily RWD biased AWD, so I doubt RWD is that much better.

 

BMW is C&D's pimp.

 

'nuff said.

 

BTW, what does "flexibility" quantify, in the second row, second column of the condensed results that SlimJoe posted? I am sure it is from the original article, I just wonder what that measures... and why the Porsche was less flexible than the BMW or Nissan.

 

The entire third row looks like complete subjectivity.

 

without criteria, who knows how C&D mangled these results in favor of their biases.

[05GT Guru]

I prefer RWD in sports cars, im sure alot of the people on this forum will disagree because subaru is the AWD master, there is a place for AWD but for me its not on a sports car.

[chenc544]

GT-R is heavily RWD biased AWD, so I doubt RWD is that much better.

 

IIRC, the normal split on the GT-R is 2/98, extremely rear biased. It goes up to 50/50 when needed.

[05GT Guru]

I also dont like when it adjusts for you like that, its hard to predict whats gonna happen when sliding when that shit goes off. I would rather have 50/50 all the time or RWD all the time, i like being in total control of whats goin on in the car, the less electronically controlled things the better. ABS who needs it, electronic suspension not needed on a sports car, more power to one wheel when it starts to spin retarded. On a sports car give me stiff suspension al lthe time, brakes that lock up when i want them too and the same power to the wheels at all times

[IwannaSportSedan]

Torque biasing differentials, and speed differential and yaw rate sensors don't do too bad. But I do understand, and somewhat share your skepticism on electronic nannies.

 

I tend to draw the line at enhancement vs detraction. An electronic system that makes the mechanicals more responsive to what I want tend to be good, electronic systems that second guess and intervene to countermand my inputs are not so good.

 

Keep in mind that is is shifting power from RWD to AWD, not from FWD to AWD.

 

Where I do agree with you is where pure unassisted engineering is good. a mechanical torque biasing rear-diff is a very nice thing. Electronic brake-managed torque distribution (braking one wheel to send torque to the other wheel) is not so great.

 

The thing is, a good sports car should be designed well enough to have such smooth behavior, and high limits, and light weight that it doesn't need overly stiff springs, overly hard dampers, easily binding brakes, or jerky handling transitions that unsettle traction.

 

compromised engineering, and high vehicle weight requires heavier wheels and tires, which imparts more energy into the suspension and brakes, harder springs, harder dampers, stiffer anti-roll bars, and everything else. One compromise begets a LOT more compromises.

 

Then all of the sudden, when you have a heavy car, that requires an OVERLY stiff suspension with harsh transitions, heavy unsprung components including over-kill brakes, then you have to have more power. Then the more power overcomes traction too easily, so you add AWD... that adds complexity and weight.

 

Then, to make a heavy-handed car handle better, it requires physics management computers and software to intervene on the throttle, brakes, stability control, AWD torque management, anti-lock braking, adjustable damping, and everything else, to try to make a heavy car handle like a lighter car.

 

Then with all that advancement, designers factor in electronic management as a given, and let other engineering and design factors slide under the premise that the electronic systems will cover for it. Not to mention the driving technique problems that get covered up with electronic systems intervening. A driver that has respect for, and intimate knowledge of the limitations of the car itself is a faster, more confident driver up to those limits. Does one really know the limits of a car with stability control, or learn to overcome ham-fisted techniques that stability control might cover up?

 

Add lightness. Colin Chapman was right. Lightness solves a lot of other problems.

 

The GT-R is amazing, but it is big, and it is heavy. Imagine all that development into a small, lightweight, simpler car. Less power would get the same results, and the handling would be better, without assistance.

 

I'd rather drive a Cayman (even without PASM and Porsche's nannies), or something more pure, and lighter. I'd probably like an Exige, too, but I am not sure I would fit. There is a limit to how small and light things can get, before it becomes impractical on the other end.

 

That, and I know I need to "add lightness" to myself, as well.