mwiener2 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Make sure you idle for some time when using it. I know you have a different system but this would be interesting to see what it does when idling. an excess of hydrogen builds up and explodes which is another reason why you don't see "technology" like this on production cars. If you are creating a significant amount of hydrogen (not likely) it's EXPLOSIVE!!!! My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Just like the Hindenburg, right? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 This started out as a question/seeking input about whether something (water to gas (WTG) conversion) would work. Since that OP, we've heard about thermodynamics, physics, chemistry, price of oil, oil barons, OPEC and the BIG 3's collusion with foreign oil interests, presidencies and nominations for president being won/lost based on an individual's connection to oil, media hype (or lack thereof) and at least two dozen other bits of information. As AKLGT has stated, she's buying into one of these WTG processes to see if it works, how well it works if it does, and what kind of impact it would have on her turbo'd Legacy GT sedan in daily driving and during some spirited track work. She has asked, and I certainly support her request, to be given a chance to guage the merits of the WTG conversion, and answer the questions above. There's no room for name calling, jumping on other members, and/or piling on just because you can. If you want to do that, head over to Nasioc's OT forum or some other equally free-for-all site, or even go OT here, just move that behavior off this thread. That's my perspective, so if you want to discuss this via PM, please feel free to do so. Now BOT - AKLGT - keep us posted and for other venturesome souls who are trying this out themselves, let us know your results as well. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 why dodge the question? i'm not sure i follow. what question are you talking about? i don't need to prove why this doesn't work, who the hell does that benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 there are plenty of people who say this works, and plenty to say it doesn't; but the burden of proof doesn't land on me here. i'm glad we have someone among us that will try it & report on it here; but to be honest, i'm still not buying the "science" behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 there are plenty of people who say this works, and plenty to say it doesn't; but the burden of proof doesn't land on me here. i'm glad we have someone among us that will try it & report on it here; but to be honest, i'm still not buying the "science" behind it I agree. Though some of it does make sense, I'm not fully convince the reasons why or the "science" behind is actually why they claim it works. Until I see some real results, all I can do is guess and hypothesize like the rest of everyone else. Let's tone it down in here, I'd hate to lock this thread because I think we can have some good discussions during this experiment. This is for all of our benefit, not just to serve my curiosity and yours. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Electrolysis creates hydrogen gas and oxygen gas. A spark will cause the gases to recombine, forming water (and releasing energy (heat and light) in the process). But as others have noted, the amount of energy you get from the recombination is less than the amount of energy required to turn H2O into H2 and O2 gas, so this is a losing proposition. The only way this could possibly be helpful is if it somehow changes the chemistry of the "air + fuel = exhaust" process such that "air + fuel + H2 gas + O2 gas" somehow releases more energy than the combined energy of "air + fuel" and "H2 + O2" in separate reactions. Can you see why that's hard to believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 from the videos I've seen of this in action, it looks more like boiling water than it does "HHO" coming out of solution. Also based on how the wiring looks... Coils of wire attached to the battery (think electric resistance heat)... that goes more with boiling too My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCloud Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 ^ But it's not really boiling -- the bubbles are the two gases that are being created. The water's not necessarily hot. My earlier comments about the O2 acting as an additional oxidant in the (gasoline) fuel's combustion, as with NOS, are similar to what NSFW is suggesting, although the H2 is included there. Any way you cut it, the additional energy associated with the (2H2+O2->2H2O) combustion won't do the trick, because that reaction liberates less energy than the (O2+gasoline->exhaust reaction) -- meaning that oxidizing hydrogen is a waste of oxygen, in an internal combustion engine. So there must be some other mechanism involved. And the volumes of either or both gas, compared to the volume of the air/gasoline mixture normally used in the combustion process, are a huge question. How big is the distilled water reservoir, and how often does it need refilling? All of this points back to the most important question: how is this gadget supposed to work? Until we know that, we can't assess whether it's feasible. And the purported real-world testing is not really going to prove much, unless the mechanism is explained. As we've seen with various illusionists, from H. Houdini to D. Copperfield to C. Angel, illusion is compelling and easy to believe. But I don't want to "believe." I can go to church for that. I want to know. HPH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmillard Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Not to be a double poster but: I want to say I am very impressed with the amount of scientific knowledge on this post. I am not a 'science guy' so most of this stuff floats over my head, but I am impressed with the fact that people remember this stuff from high school/college. I have my own opinion of the technology from the fact that it has not been commonly adopted and by the lawsuits the companies sometimes face for false advertising. http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2008/06/21/5945216-sun.html Maybe Americans are not as stupid as the politicians (when talking about schools) like to make us sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leggtnut Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Holy sh*t dude I didn't think grown people still believed in conspiracies. I thought it was just college kids, fringe leftists and academics. You haven't been to the San Francisco area then. I would say that 90% of people out here belive that it is all a conspiracy. And yes, we do grow a good amount of the wold's supply of corn, at least up till this year at least, and corn is a horible use for ethonal. it takes more energy to create the ethonal. There are better weeds than a crop. There is a weed that has almost as much sugar as sugar kane. That is where you get more ethonal than energy spent. Also, from what I have been reading, the big reasons that we had become dependent on OPEC was to bring the US more into the world market back in the day. That was why Oil was traded in the US dollar. Great when the dollar was strong. But hey, what the hell do I know. I am not expert. Ben (2014 Outback SAP w/ eyesite, 2014 Tribeca Limited, 2006 LGT limited sedan) Subaru Ambassador PNW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 i hope your $1800 was worth it.... http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmillard Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Coxx, are you an energy analyst? Just wondering because you mentioned your job a few times. This is out of curiousity and nothing else, as you see I think we agree for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Coxx, are you an energy analyst? Just wondering because you mentioned your job a few times. This is out of curiousity and nothing else, as you see I think we agree for the most part. I'm affiliated with the business "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 http://www.mnforsustain.org/images/wolf_pack_snow.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dogsledding!!! That's so eco friendly and will be perfect when the northern half of the US freezes over liek in the day after tomorrow My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dogsledding!!! That's so eco friendly and will be perfect when the northern half of the US freezes over liek in the day after tomorrow http://forum.ariakon.com/uploads/VeritechSquad/3BE_picard.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacyB430 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 good luck! Interested to see the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 sheesh, people! It's not like I can run the experiment in 1 freaking day and have real factual data! Good lord! First off, I have to run the first sets of real data and that's just getting the every day to day logs. This is going to take some time since I'll be splitting my driving b/w 2 different cars. I'm going to try to drive the LGT all week which will be city driving. This weekend we are going for a long drive out to Homer and back, so I should be able to log some hwy miles. Relax a little bit! You guys are going to give yourselves strokes or something! Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Cleaned up, please stop the bickering and name calling folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leggtnut Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 thanks praedet Ben (2014 Outback SAP w/ eyesite, 2014 Tribeca Limited, 2006 LGT limited sedan) Subaru Ambassador PNW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 http://www.mnforsustain.org/images/wolf_pack_snow.jpg http://media.expedia.com/media/content/expcorp/graphics/blog/monkey.jpg Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKLGT Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Well I spoke to our resident SOA Subie God this afternoon at the dealership. He is very excited about this project as he also is in the process of building a few units for his fleet of cars as well (this is THE Subie God tech while my usual tech is more like a lesser Subie God to Jerry.) He will be helping me install the Hydro 4000 kit onto the LGT, however between both of my techs they plan to do a lot of data logging with this system as well as keeping an eye on the AFR. We may need to do some tuning, however the two of them began speaking in a language that was beyond my normal comprehension so I did my best to follow along.... Jerry (Resident Subie God) explained to me as best he could (so I could at least follow along) how the break down of the molecules work and how he was planning to set up a similar type system in his Forester. I wish I could explain everything in the way he explained it to me because it made a lot of sense. I had to dig deep deep down to my college Chem classes to at least follow along. The kits should arrive sometime later this week we hope, if not early next. Once I have it in hand, I shall take a lot of pics of the thing as well as try to figure out how and where to install the tank. I'm currently working on my first tank of gas that is mostly city and mostly hard on the throttle. I'll also be taking her out to the track tomorrow afternoon (weather permitting) for a few baseline runs. The only downside, is I'm still running the gutted OEM UP and won't be able to swap it out with a catted UP until Thurs eve. So my times will be a little off, however doubtful they will be far off. Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 no one is denying the fact that this will make some hydrogen... it's the amount that is the issue My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leggtnut Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 I was at my deliership on saturday and was asking our master tech, service manager, former subaru master tech/service manager now sales manager. All want to be updated with what you find AKLGT. They could even become a dealer if it works well enough and feel it wouldn't do too much to cause trouble. Ben (2014 Outback SAP w/ eyesite, 2014 Tribeca Limited, 2006 LGT limited sedan) Subaru Ambassador PNW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.