h2o hybrid

[coxx]

because this kit is expensive: $2000 installed.

 

if it were cheaper, more people would do it.

that's BS IMO. It would easily pay for itself it it worked as well as you guys are saying

Cause i do believe this is something that you CANNOT patten in north America

 

"Patent" "Patten" was a General (or was that Patton? )

 

So what, patent/schmatent. If it's so awesome lets me em & sell em & get rich.

 

Sorry guys I dont believe a word of any of this. It's right up there with turbonator.

[AKLGT]

my buddy with the 98 LGT made his. I guess they are somewhat easy and you can do it for about $600. however, the ones my friend has and sells is obviously better made and has a lot more fail safes. I cannot speak to the technology or the chemistry behind it because I haven't really spent much time reading up on it. I didn't even know anything about this stuff until she mentioned it to me last week to set up some additional business accounts they have with me. She knows I'm a car person, so she was curious as to what I thought. I told her I'd reserve judgment til I saw some real world #'s. Then she showed me her logs. Oddly enough, my buddy with the 98 LGT called me this weekend (hadn't talked to him in a month) and he's telling me about this cool hydrogen system he built and installed on the car... blah blah. I thought that was interesting.... 2 people I know out of the blue call me in a matter of a week to 10 days talking to me about this. ??? Seems like it works pretty well. I'm going to keep watching and waiting.

[AKLGT]

that's BS IMO. It would easily pay for itself it it worked as well as you guys are saying

 

 

"Patent" "Patten" was a General (or was that Patton? )

 

So what, patent/schmatent. If it's so awesome lets me em & sell em & get rich.

 

Sorry guys I dont believe a word of any of this. It's right up there with turbonator.

how is that BS? it's the same reason why people say, oh if the VB mod wasn't as expensive I'd do it, even though $1000 is less than $8K to replace your whole damn 5EAT tranny.

 

Even if it were $500, people would still balk at the price. This is the US, where we all want everything for nothing.

[coxx]

I'll agree with you on this...

 

Even if it were $500, people would still balk at the price. This is the US, where we all want everything for nothing.

 

:lol::lol:

 

however, here in NY there's plenty of people willing to shell out $2k for this if it really worked. Same in Cali I'm sure.

 

If it was so great alot of these neo-hippie millionaires I work with would be all about it.

[mwiener2]

interesting. a good friend of mine has a business they are starting that sells these types of products. what they have found thus far after installing in 2 vehicles has been an incredible increase in fuel economy. From 14 mpg in their truck to 25 mpg. I say that's pretty significant. I have another friend of mine who installed one in his 98 Legacy GT that got about 22 mpg and now getting well over 40 mpg. So after seeing these installed and used on 2 personal friend's vehicles, I'm left to believe it does work and so far, working pretty damn well.

 

 

 

A company liek that asked me to sell their product. I asked for a free one to put on my car and test it. If it worked, I'd sell and install their product.

 

They refused, big suprise.

 

 

 

and that water for fuel.... Brown water... cute. In his video, he is createing a vaccum leak in a bottle of electrified water and baking soda.

 

Put one of these cars that's getting "54%" better mpg on a dyno. I bet it puts out half the power it used to. Half the power = half the gas = better mpg

[AKLGT]

I dunno. as I said, last week was the first I heard of it. the 2 people who are telling me how it works and how well it's worked are very good friends of mine and i've known them for 16 yrs. I don't think they'd lie to me about this. They are very excited. They have a business now but then after doing this, they are looking at expanding or adding (something completely different from their current tax business). I'm just waiting and watching....

[AKLGT]

well, even at my cost (they told me they would give me cost which is still spendy) to see how it did.

and I can guarantee I would know if it lost power or changed. not sure on the weight though... that could be an issue. especially at the drag strip! LOL and then try to explain that to the tech guy...oh ya, no that's not NOS. it's a hydrogen converting kit for fuel economy.

[coxx]

sorry AK & the other believers but this same product has come out aroudn this time of year for the past 3 years.

[mwiener2]

mythbusters even debunked most of them

[03LegacyWgn]

^^ hmm funny i missed that ep.

[leggtnut]

mythbusters even debunked most of them

 

they debunked the myth that you can run solely on this and not running as a hybrid system, from what I remember. Great episode though.

[mwiener2]

they couldn't even produce enough Hydrogen off the battery to do anything with, let alone fire a cylinder once.

[AKLGT]

sorry AK & the other believers but this same product has come out aroudn this time of year for the past 3 years.

perhaps, but i'm seeing more and more about this... not on just the interwebs and skeptics. I'd rather talk to people who have it and use it in real world applications that I personally know and have known for 16+ years over some program on CNN or other show/TV ad/Newspaper article.

 

I am curious if it would affect power though as I do track my car and that's very important to me.

[a.spider]

i've known them for 16 yrs. I don't think they'd lie to me about this.

 

It is not necessary for anyone to lie about this kind of nonsense. They only have to

be sufficiently scientifically illiterate *and* sufficiently credulous to believe it works.

From a physics and chemistry point of view this is complete nonsense, and it is not

even new nonsense since it has been around for decades. In many decades of time

not even one reproducible experiment has ever shown that thermodynamics could

be violated like these kinds of "free energy" devices routinely claim. Odds are that

your fiends are merely parroting the original claims, since this literally can't work

anymore than tugging on your own shoelaces can lift you off of the ground. This is

why "anecdotal evidence" is universally rejected by the scientific community.

 

It is only economical to utilize hydrogen as fuel in this fashion when generating the

hydrogen is cheaper than using fossil fuel. Generating hydrogen by using a gasoline

engine running an alternator requires more fossil fuel than not generating hydrogen

and the energy that you get back from burning the hydrogen is less than the energy

of the fossil fuel used to generate that hydrogen to begin with. Every joule of energy

that you get by burning hydrogen requires about 3 joules or more worth of gasoline

to generate that amount of hydrogen.

[s car go]

^^ The voice of reason.

[SBT]

^^ The voice of reason.

 

accompanying golf "clap".

SBT

[AKLGT]

It is not necessary for anyone to lie about this kind of nonsense. They only have to

be sufficiently scientifically illiterate *and* sufficiently credulous to believe it works.

From a physics and chemistry point of view this is complete nonsense, and it is not

even new nonsense since it has been around for decades. In many decades of time

not even one reproducible experiment has ever shown that thermodynamics could

be violated like these kinds of "free energy" devices routinely claim. Odds are that

your fiends are merely parroting the original claims, since this literally can't work

anymore than tugging on your own shoelaces can lift you off of the ground. This is

why "anecdotal evidence" is universally rejected by the scientific community.

 

It is only economical to utilize hydrogen as fuel in this fashion when generating the

hydrogen is cheaper than using fossil fuel. Generating hydrogen by using a gasoline

engine running an alternator requires more fossil fuel than not generating hydrogen

and the energy that you get back from burning the hydrogen is less than the energy

of the fossil fuel used to generate that hydrogen to begin with. Every joule of energy

that you get by burning hydrogen requires about 3 joules or more worth of gasoline

to generate that amount of hydrogen.

well then, please explain with your voice of reason as to why they are experiencing so much better fuel economy with only adding this system? I would like to know. It's one thing to ignore a couple mpg gains, but we're talking 40-50% gains, if not more in some cases. These are real world numbers. So real, that I may go ahead and do this on the new car, just to see. They believe this product really does what it claims that they will be willing to do this at next to nothing. My only concern is the fact that I depend on this car for not only my transportation, but my business and also as my track car going to 4-6 events per month until Sept. THAT is what I'm more or less concerned about than anything else. I feel I get pretty decent fuel economy in the STI now, but if I can see 40-50% increase in fuel economy with this system while experiencing NO power or torque loss, I do not see how there's anything to lose??

 

And why would my good friend who even BUILT HIS OWN be telling me he's getting almost double his fuel economy than before? he has absolutely nothing to gain other than my smart ass comments of how fugly his funky system looks. LOL.

[s car go]

And why would my good friend who even BUILT HIS OWN be telling me he's getting almost double his fuel economy than before? he has absolutely nothing to gain other than my smart ass comments of how fugly his funky system looks. LOL.

 

Nothing to gain? You're blindly advocating a product that has been proven not to work by the laws of thermodynamics. Posts like yours are the reason this scam gets perpetuated and people like your friend get to make money off of people that don't know any better.

 

Not that this was his intention, of course. Nobody's denying that your friend believes that it works (although I would hope he's done at least some research before starting his business), we're just saying that it doesn't work.

[tmillard]

I just want to float this out there:

If this worked, don't you think the car companies would be all over it? There are 35 MPG CAFE regulations in the works, Toyota has the hybrid market sown, yet no car manufacturer is using this 'technology'? You have to be kidding me.

IF it worked you don't think Honda, GM, Chrysler, Ford, et al. would be on it? EVERY company is out there trying to be 'green' and offer better mileage. If this worked wouldn't it make sense that the technology would be common place? I would shell out $2k right now for 50% better fuel economy, not just because of the gas prices but I would prefer my car to be more efficient.

 

This all being said, AKLGT why don't you you have your friends prove the tech? Take some photos of the equipment and then some photos of the MPG computer and have them explain how it is working?

 

Not trying to be an a**hole but I just don't believe any of this stuff works and wish the myth would just die.

[coxx]

I just want to float this out there:

If this worked, don't you think the car companies would be all over it?

 

then why doesnt everyone have it & why arent the makers holding out for billions in profits?

this comes out every summer when people start griping about fuel prices.

 

if it were viable, the venture capitalists would be all over it. Thats the simple truth

glad we agree bro

[erikvcl]

how is that BS? it's the same reason why people say, oh if the VB mod wasn't as expensive I'd do it, even though $1000 is less than $8K to replace your whole damn 5EAT tranny.

 

Even if it were $500, people would still balk at the price. This is the US, where we all want everything for nothing.

 

I don't know about wanting everything for nothing, but we sure want things that will work. If water4gas actually worked, don't you think the car makers would be using it right now to help them meet (ridiculous) CAFE standards? Don't you think they'd be researching that instead of hybrid technology? Wouldn't BMW and GM be researching and implementing water4gas instead of pouring billions into hydrogen fuel-cell research?

 

Of course car makers are out to make money. Everyone is. Aren't you? If this simple device would help them improve MPG ratings (which customers seem obsessed with these days), don't you think they'd definitely include it? Some car buyers only look at the MPG ratings and fail to look at the rest of the car -- that's the problem Subaru has right now.

 

The truth is that the product is a scam and the company is preying on Americans' general lack of scientific knowledge.

 

A quick read of the company's website shows their ignorance. They claim that hydrogen is "compressed" into water. Uh no. Hydrogen in water is chemically bonded to oxygen. It takes energy to break this bond.

 

A sure-fire way to find if a scientific-sounding website is a scam is to look at the claims. They claim that your "engine is being damaged by unburned fuels now" and is "poorly designed". There's lots of other claims including the fact that their system will help "improve shifts". Give me a break. There is no scientific evidence on their website at all: No dyno graph, no scientific MPG numbers, and no scientific studies quoted.

 

This is snake oil, folks. My guess is that even if the system did produce some hydrogen, it's produced so slowly that it wouldn't have a significant effect on your engine -- and that's the point. Anyone who claims benefits is doing so to avoid looking like a "fool": nobody wants to get ripped off.

[AKLGT]

Nothing to gain? You're blindly advocating a product that has been proven not to work by the laws of thermodynamics. Posts like yours are the reason this scam gets perpetuated and people like your friend get to make money off of people that don't know any better.

 

Not that this was his intention, of course. Nobody's denying that your friend believes that it works (although I would hope he's done at least some research before starting his business), we're just saying that it doesn't work.

I'm not advocating anything. I'm simply asking why this seems to work in real world applications than sitting at a computer and having a virtual argument. Am I pushing this and trying to sell these products? NO. I am, however, seriously considering having one of these systems installed on my 08 STI to see if it really does work. Then, BS aside, I can say with or without a doubt if it's BS or not.

 

2 completely different people I've known for 16 yrs are telling me it works on THEIR OWN VEHICLES, they don't even talk to each other. I can't help but listen and be curious. Come on, we all know just because we don't "think" something will work doesn't mean it won't. My concerns if I do have a system installed on the car is how it will affect my tuning and mapping as well as power. I track my car and I track it quite a bit. I'm not just your average commuter going from point A to point B.

 

No one else wants to try this and see if it really works, that's up to them. However, these are people I know and trust so I'm more willing to listen and give it a try. If you don't, than that's up to you.

 

BTW, my friend has had HER business for 20 yrs. They aren't about to blindly put their reputation on the line for some kind of gimmick. They are investing a lot of money in this product. Besides, I'm the one looking to fork over the money and invest to see if/how this works, not you. So keep your money in your pocket while I spend mine. If it doesn't you can all say, oh I knew it was a hoax, but if they are right, then I'll be enjoying a much better fuel efficient track car. The way I see it, it's a win win scenario. If it turns out nothing happens and it's a hunk of aluminum junk, well, I just write it off. I'm hoping it works and will work on my car (because I don't know if it even will).

 

When I started my business almost 2 yrs ago people told me it was stupid, I would go out of business and my product line was too small, no market for it, etc. Well, now, I'm the largest distributor in AK and laughing all the way to the bank. Guess because of my entrepreneur spirit, I'm more willing to try new things, especially if I can see with my own eyes that there potentially may be benefit. If I'm wrong, well, I'll be the one out the money, not you.

[SBT]

^^ Again, golf clap, followed by enthusiastic cheering. Keep us posted - there's a lot of us entrepeneurs on here...

SBT

[tmillard]

When I started my business almost 2 yrs ago people told me it was stupid, I would go out of business and my product line was too small, no market for it, etc. Well, now, I'm the largest distributor in AK and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

 

Whats business you in?

 

When you do the conversion let us all know how it works and show us a step by step of it happening. I am curious to see this thing.

 

I am someone who wants to believe but feels that it is just not possible.

[03LegacyWgn]

i agree plz keep us posted