LegGTLT Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I was pretty happy with the story the local news station ran here on this issue: http://www.kptv.com/video/16841657/index.html Wow... just wow. So these systems "work on 99.9% of motor vehicles" and show increases that allow "400 miles on a quarter tank"...... BUT, no one has any data to back it up? Jesus, these people are f'n scam artists to the max. TKLGT- I'm not saying your system won't work so please don't delete my post. I'm just saying a news station ran a story asking for the kind of data we're looking to see and the MANUFACTURERS of the damn thing can't even provide data. This is getting better/worse by the minute... Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 so please don't delete my post. TK321 abuse mod powers never! Dont talk that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikvcl Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Wow... just wow. So these systems "work on 99.9% of motor vehicles" and show increases that allow "400 miles on a quarter tank"...... BUT, no one has any data to back it up? Jesus, these people are f'n scam artists to the max. TKLGT- I'm not saying your system won't work so please don't delete my post. I'm just saying a news station ran a story asking for the kind of data we're looking to see and the MANUFACTURERS of the damn thing can't even provide data. This is getting better/worse by the minute... Exactly. They got folks like AKLGT to spend their hard-earned money to buy these units so that their own customers can do the testing that they should have done! This is the equivalent of Wyeth telling you that Advil "might" cure headaches: you should do the testing yourself. Would you buy it then? Then they spout off some B.S. about how it takes the system "30 days to break in". Huh? The real intent is twofold: 1. After spending $1200 + installation, most folks are too ashamed to admit that it doesn't work and will either lie (e.g. I got 900 miles to the gallon after installation) or "vanish" providing no further follow-up. 2. By the time 30 days has passed, you've got enough time invested that you're unlikely to return it and request a refund! (Maybe this is when the return policy expires?) Americans are so silly. They badmouth the pharmaceutical companies who spend anywhere between 500 million and 2 billion dollars researching and testing EACH DRUG and get FDA safety approvals. They'll go through the roof when when 3 people die from a drug that's saved millions of lives. Yet, Americans will, collectively, spend millions of dollars on "nutritional suplements", that have no testing or validated claims of efficacy. Americans will buy "colon cleansing" products even though colonoscopies prove that there is no "gunk" in your colon. They'll buy that bogus cold-remedy product "Airborne" developed buy a teacher! Are you kidding me? A teacher knows more about medicine and viruses than Glaxo-Smith-Kline, Bayer, etc.!? GMS Hydro 4000, water4gas and all these other bogus HHO products on the market today are the automotive equivalent of Airborne, colon cleansing, etc.: bogus scams meant to rip off the ignorant non-science-minded American. If there was a miracle cure for the common cold, don't you think that the pharmaceutical companies would be on that in a second? And don't even get me started on "Head-On"... There is no global conspiracy! The pharmaceutical companies, the car companies and the oil companies are not all independently engaged in a conspiracy to hide the truth from you. These companies want to make money and to sell products. Who do you trust, a company that invests billions of dollars in R&D (of its own money) to develop a life-saving cancer treatment, or a company that spends $10k to manufacture a sugar pill to sell at GNC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyFast Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 It cracks me up how everyone turns into a scientist and an expert when topics like this come up. Why is everyone so passionate about somebody else spending their own money to test a product? I myself quickly assume bull**** when companies make claims like 60% better gas mileage but I would love to find out that the product worked. I can't wait to see some real world data to see if this thing actually works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s car go Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 It cracks me up how everyone turns into a scientist and an expert when topics like this come up. Why is everyone so passionate about somebody else spending their own money to test a product? Dude, scientists and experts have come out and publicly labeled these products as scams. Watch the video I posted. If you're willing to dismiss the statements made by the university professor they interviewed, then I don't know what else you want to hear. Don't let your desire for this thing to work outweigh your common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyFast Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Dude, scientists and experts have come out and publicly labeled these products as scams. Watch the video I posted. If you're willing to dismiss the statements made by the university professor they interviewed, then I don't know what else you want to hear. Don't let your desire for this thing to work outweigh your common sense. Have scientists and experts labeled this particular product a scam? Common sense would tell me to wait for the (soon to be available) results of a real world test before I declare I know for a fact that this will work or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s car go Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Have scientists and experts labeled this particular product a scam? Common sense would tell me to wait for the (soon to be available) results of a real world test before I declare I know for a fact that this will work or not. I can't remember if the product discussed in the news story was mentioned by name, but it definitely sounded like the same one we're talking about here based on the price. Regardless, they all use the same concept, and that concept is what is being denounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyFast Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I can't remember if the product discussed in the news story was mentioned by name, but it definitely sounded like the same one we're talking about... ...and based on our limited understanding of the sciences involved we can declare unequivocally that this thing will not work. I'll wait for the data... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 ...and based on our limited understanding of the sciences involved we can declare unequivocally that this thing will not work. I'll wait for the data... I'm actually pretty curious to hear how the test comes out, but I can definitely say that the way that these companies SAY that the device works is unequivocally wrong. That is based on the laws of thermodynamics which have been well understood for a couple of centuries. We're not talking about String Theory here. Guys in castles were burning things and writing these fundamental understandings of how the universe works. If 400 years of data ain't enough, I'm not sure this test is going to help you. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyFast Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'm actually pretty curious to hear how the test comes out... ...If 400 years of data ain't enough, I'm not sure this test is going to help you. Holy Self Contradiction Batman! So if I understand you here, you are implying that by your knowledge of the age old sciences involved here, there is no way this thing will work... Yet your curious how the test results shake out? What is there to be curious about? All I'm saying is give it a rest. The product is being tested. We will know soon enough if the product works or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I KNOW it won't work as described. Any gains in MPG will be at a loss in HP. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'm stayin true to my word & keeping quiet about it till the results are in. "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'm stayin true to my word & keeping quiet about it till the results are in. Wise decision - I'm with you on that one! - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCloud Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 It turns out that there's a (small) body of technical literature about gasoline-hydrogen mixtures used in internal combustion engines, most of which literature is associated with emissions control. (Diesel/hydrogen combinations also have been studied for the same purpose.) Because of the different combustion properties of gasoline and H2, adding H2 at levels around 1% of the intake oxygen changes the flame-front speed in such a way as to improve combustion efficiency and reduce emissions. Improving combustion efficiency also can, of course, improve performance whether that's defined via mpg or power. How much is unclear, but apparently there is some potential here. Now, at this 1% ratio, a quart of water will produce enough H2 when electrolyzed to combine with about 10 gallons of gas. Sooo....as you'd expect, the marketing folks who are pushing these various devices aren't shy about hyperbole, wild, crazy hyperbole in some cases. Whether the improvements justify the cost can be calculated once the improvements are quantified. And I'm sure most anyone would agree that a single test using a single car, despite the driver's best efforts to control road conditions, is insufficient to fully quantify these improvements. (And this is further complicated by the fact that the particular test under discussion here seems to have failed in the 2.5T engine.) HPH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 todays local paper. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/1055936,2_1_AU15_GASSAVE_S1.article Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 todays local paper. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/1055936,2_1_AU15_GASSAVE_S1.article The sun times you call that a credible paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGTLT Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Better than the RC Times. Please PM joeleodee For All Site Questions. He is the acting Admin and can resolve anything related to LegacyGT.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 The sun times you call that a credible paper? it's in the Beacon News not the Sun Times Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Better than the RC Times. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Holy Self Contradiction Batman! So if I understand you here, you are implying that by your knowledge of the age old sciences involved here, there is no way this thing will work... Yet your curious how the test results shake out? What is there to be curious about? All I'm saying is give it a rest. The product is being tested. We will know soon enough if the product works or not. There's no contradiction at all in what I wrote. There is no way that the device works THE WAY THE MFRs CLAIM IT DOES. That doesn't mean that it might not work in a completely different way. A while back in this thread, I described a way in which it might work, as a kind of hybrid storing otherwise wasted kinetic energy and releasing it during higher load. YOU implied that the scientific understanding in this area is "limited." I was merely correcting that misunderstanding. And even if this test shows a positive result, that hardly constitutes a proof. It would just mean that there is something worth studying in a more controlled fashion. n=1 hardly even represents a feasibility trial. However, if there is no result from this test, it would certainly constitute a mighty STFU for the "believers" in this H2O hybrid idea and the vast conspiracy theories that come out of it. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyFast Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 YOU implied that the scientific understanding in this area is "limited." I was merely correcting that misunderstanding. I'm sorry. What I meant to imply was your understanding and the understanding of other individuals in an automotive forum is limited. If my assumption is incorrect, please inform me where you received your PhD in chemical engineering, and what laboratory you have been studying the affects of these reactions under different conditions. For the record I'm not saying (and have never said) that I think it will work, but sitting here arguing about it like we are a bunch of experts is an exercise in futility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 :lol:@ this thread all the arguing is pointless. I have my opinion which I stated earlier but I'm gonna at least give AK the chance to test it out. Then & only then after the results are in can anyone really make a comment on it. Otherwise it's like arguing over which team will win a ball game only talking as if one of the 2 is DEFINITELY going to win. "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 :lol:@ this thread all the arguing is pointless. I have my opinion which I stated earlier but I'm gonna at least give AK the chance to test it out. Then & only then after the results are in can anyone really make a comment on it. Otherwise it's like arguing over which team will win a ball game only talking as if one of the 2 is DEFINITELY going to win. + a gazillion. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 + a gazillion. :lol: I'm learning wisdom from you "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 it's in the Beacon News not the Sun Times a subsidiary Better than the RC Times. This thread has nothing to do with Flying, drinking or eating. Im Anthony Bourdain Jr. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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