Jerboa113 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 correct me if I'm wrong.. but isnt the IS-F and the IS350 both AUTOMATIC ONLY? not only that but craptastic "thanks for your input but I'll shift when I'm ready to" automatic. At least if you're going to get an auto.. or if lexus is going to FORCE you to get an auto if you want the higher performance engine.. they should at least assume you know half of what the hell you are doing when it comes to shifting. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ^ you are right, sir. If you don't vote Trump, out, you're a bigot who hates america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddseth Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I think I might have heard that somewhere In all seriousness though, I know people hate on the SI drive system, but it seems to solve the emissions issues. They can sell it with 3 settings, like they do now. Setting 1: Limp mode, you might get beat by a kid on a bike, but you'll meet the standards, and the other two can be balls to the walls mode. I don't see what the big deal is. On a side note, I think that Subaru should be watching the release of the new skyline very closely. This is going to tell japanese manufacturers a lot about what they can and can't do in this market. That car is bad ass, but it is japanese. Will someone really pay $75K+ for a nissan? This should tell Subaru what to do with their cars. If that thing flops, they need to hold back on the Legacy Sti. If that thing sells, than they should stop being baby's and build a bad ass legacy pushing around 400HP that will beat an M3 price it at $45 (10 grand less than the M3). We can all hope that if the skyline does well, it may inspire both a 4-door super legacy and maybe a super-svx coupe! I know it is a pipe dream but there has been much excitement around the Skyline in that even at $70K+, it can still outperform all but the highest end supercars and is incredibly drivable because of its advanced 4WD. A good 4WD system can take a decent chassis and make it awesome. When I tracked my stock GT, the 4wd grip made up for the floating suspension and nose-heavy weight bias and I never lost control. It is much easier to drive up to the limit than my gf's 350z (I kind of hate that car, though) although the limit on the z is higher. The main point - subaru has the great 4wd system which can be the basis of a budget import performance car fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 well when you look at the way the cafe standards are setup, it comes from the entire FLEET. So to have 1 super car that guzzles gas means you have to have a million little yaris's running around. Honestly I'd rather see an automaker that makes good cars that are affordable rather than one super car (even tho I'd LOVE to check out one of those new skylines. ) From my understanding it works like a grading curve. If you have one over acheiver, everyone else theoretically suffers by limitations to meet a goal. Which is exactly why grading curves and therefore cafe standards by timetable is a terrible idea. ^ is a terrible idea? are a terrible idea? I no good be grammar at. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Subaru can be more fuel efficient. Look at Audi. The A6's 3.2L puts out more power than the LGT and it gets 19/27. Hell even the V8 gets better gas mileage than an auto LGT. And the 200 hp version of the A4 gets 20/31. And yes thats with Quattro. Audi knows what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieDriver Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ... Which is exactly why grading curves and therefore cafe standards by timetable is a terrible idea. ^ is a terrible idea? are a terrible idea? I no good be grammar at. Helpful hint: "curves" and "standards" are plural, so "are" is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 well when you look at the way the cafe standards are setup, it comes from the entire FLEET. So to have 1 super car that guzzles gas means you have to have a million little yaris's running around. You would not sell as many super cars as econoboxes. So as long a company sells enough of the economy ones, there would be room for a high powered gas guzzling cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddseth Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 well when you look at the way the cafe standards are setup, it comes from the entire FLEET. So to have 1 super car that guzzles gas means you have to have a million little yaris's running around. Honestly I'd rather see an automaker that makes good cars that are affordable rather than one super car (even tho I'd LOVE to check out one of those new skylines. ) From my understanding it works like a grading curve. If you have one over acheiver, everyone else theoretically suffers by limitations to meet a goal. Which is exactly why grading curves and therefore cafe standards by timetable is a terrible idea. ^ is a terrible idea? are a terrible idea? I no good be grammar at. Solved - bring the R1 and R2 to the US to compete with smart and all of those other keicar urban transport bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTlegacy06 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I don't think Subaru needs to go that "low" on the econobox scale and so soon. Mercedes did it with Smart but they could never sell it as a Mercedes since it would go against their luxury image, the same with Subaru bringing kei-cars to America would somewhat tarnish their "middle range" image alot. Personally I think they need a small coupe/hatch (size of a civic), AWD, 2.0L boxer and 5EAT standard. It would be the only one of its kind in that compact coupe realm but ofcourse it would just cannibalize Impreza sales so thats not happening. Thus they need to simply bring in Eco-trims to their whole line up, have the "base" trim for each model be even more efficient while still making higher level gt/sti/xt trims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 SOA sources in Alaska? Sounds reasonable - good place to do winter testing! So where do you think the "inside" people are during the winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Very interesting thread. My parent's next door neighbor works for SOA at the office in Portland. He's always spot on with the info. I normally promise not to post what he says but I think this is a good case. the original plan was for a 3.0l twin turbo a la 335i type engine that was scrapped in favor of a 3.6l single turbo. The engine would be for the Legacy but is strictly a study at this point and more than likely will not make production with the new emissions and mpg standards. The Forester STI is also under consideration and has been even going back to the previous model. It has no immediate plans for production. The 2010 model year legacy will get the 3.6l NA engine instead of the 3.0l. The diesel should make it here by mid 2010 calendar year. cwmiller's source seems to be correct. I wonder how much was lost in translation. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The 2010 model year legacy will get the 3.6l NA engine instead of the 3.0l. So do you know if its the 3.6R model? or if they are keeping the 2.5GT. Seems like little reason to have both, whereas the 3.0L vs. the 2.5L def. clear cut reasons to get one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So do you know if its the 3.6R model? or if they are keeping the 2.5GT. Seems like little reason to have both, whereas the 3.0L vs. the 2.5L def. clear cut reasons to get one or the other. you still don't seem to get it. The reasons why some buyers want the 2.5GT turbo vs the H6... will still be reasons why people want the turbo over the H6 later. It sounds like they may have considered turbocharging one of the H6s, but may be dropping it due to the BS over-regulation by the government. Heaven forbid the market be free to offer what people might want to buy, if a corporation like SOA can ever figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Heaven forbid the market be free to offer what people might want to buy, if a corporation like SOA can ever figure that out. I think actually you're the one who doesn't understand. SOA would love to offer tons of different engine options Im sure and cater to everyone's interests. However, its unwise to do this because they are a small company and its not profitable. So if they offer a high powered 3.6L Legacy I don't see the reason for them to offer 2.5GT if people aren't buying it. They have to be able to make money off of it and selling 10 GTs a month isn't going to net them a return on their investment, even if it makes you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So do you know if its the 3.6R model? or if they are keeping the 2.5GT. Seems like little reason to have both, whereas the 3.0L vs. the 2.5L def. clear cut reasons to get one or the other. I didn't ask all the questions i should have for fear of being cut off. this is speculation on my part but with what we've seen for 09 in the Canadian Legacy, I think that the US/Canadian Legacy and Outback will see a repositioning. I can see the 3.6l replacing the 2.5 GT. That would make for an NA base engine, NA more powerful option like most of the car's competitors, and then the spec.B or a possible STI Legacy would have a turbo engine. we as enthusiasts like turbos because we can tune them for considerably more power, but i have to wonder if a properly marketed and 3.6l would be a better competitive option for the everyday customer as it is more powerful than the stock turbo and runs on regular fuel. I could easily see base>more powerful option>halo model Impreza NA H4> mild boost H4> high boost H4 (just like now) Legacy NA H4> NA H6 > FI H6 (but more than likely high boost H4) Americans think 6 is better than 4. I know i was confused in 04 when i thought i wanted the H6 over the 2.5gt until I actually drove the two cars. It seemed silly at the time to offer two engines so close in power on paper. We all know the characteristics of the engines are night and day... but i can imagine that translation is lost on many potential customers as they peruse subaru.com. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Americans think 6 is better than 4. And the 6 cylinder is also the new 8 cylinder. Americans like 6 cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 SOA isn't even trying to sell the GT models... Ever heard of advertising? Not Subaru.. I don't see why Subaru can't figure out the emissions on a 3.6l turbo... BMW can do it for their twin turbo, Subaru can build the first boxer diesel on the planet... It's probably due to the emissions and gas mileage averages I can see this as becoming a much bigger issue with Subaru. Subaru is already fighting the fact all of its cars are AWD. The raised corporate fleet averages for fuel economy have to be scaring Subaru. Emissions are tightening up as well. More states are adopting the california emissions laws. I know my state and Washington will become california emissions states starting will all MY 09 Vehicles. Seattle is Subaru's single largest market. It makes it all the more important for Subaru to watch its emissions as the states with large Subaru sales fall one by one to California laws. I doubt Subaru can stomach the kind of fines some companies are willing to pay to just sell cars in California emissions states without regard to their emissions (DaimlerChrysler). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWP-LegacyGT Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Subaru should fear what I've done.... made my future purchase for the Evo. The new STI.... even after seeing it in person, not impressed. The Legacy STI is too little to late for Subaru. Most owners on this board already have cars "better" than what a STI offering would be so why dump the car, spend more and get something that most of us already have? The '09/'10 model year for the Legacy is going to be a watershed year for Subaru. On one side, you've got the posibllity of them pulling a rabbit out of their hat or them once again selling to a niche market of which they can't breakthrough the sales that they would like to see with the Legacy selling as well as the WRX. Also, who the heck cares about emissions? Sure that's great that Honda makes LEV's or ULEV's vehicles but low emissions is NOT what makes a Subaru a Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Also, who the heck cares about emissions? Sure that's great that Honda makes LEV's or ULEV's vehicles but low emissions is NOT what makes a Subaru a Subaru. I do. I live on a busy street that is polluted. Given that tailpipe emissions are hazardous to one's health it boggles my mind to hear people make the argument that emission control laws are stupid. You can get cancer just as easy as the next guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 /// The 2010 model year legacy will get the 3.6l NA engine instead of the 3.0l. The diesel should make it here by mid 2010 calendar year./// Get a shiny object, wave it in front of his eyes, and once he's fully hypnotized repeat this to him: SpecB 3.6 wagon SpecB 3.6 wagon etc until he's got it. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 ^ Talking to a wrong guy. The kid hates wagons (because he does not have balls to drive one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 ^ Talking to a wrong guy. The kid hates wagons (because he does not have balls to drive one). Ha. Wagons are ghetto. My hatch WRX is the closest I'll get to a wagon. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 My '99 Legacy is cooler than all your Wagons, WRXs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWP-LegacyGT Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I do. I live on a busy street that is polluted. Given that tailpipe emissions are hazardous to one's health it boggles my mind to hear people make the argument that emission control laws are stupid. You can get cancer just as easy as the next guy. Then get a Honda? I mean seriously why are we having this conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ha. Wagons are ghetto. Can't agree with this one. To each his/her on but in my view and experience, the wagons look better, and some would argue handle better, than the sedans (apples to apples). BOT - Subaru needs to bring back the Legacy Wagon and differentiate the Outback more clearly. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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