RaceComp Engineering Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 u have a pm. myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 bump for more info. C'mon, there is so much knowledge here...throw me a frickin' bone. I need more input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 IC. I knew I must be missing something. Why make your newest thing for the older cars? Or have the Variant3s been around a long time too? V3's have been around for a while too....the main difference is that they have independent compression and rebound adjustments. Lots of tuning potential with them....so those are more intended for track cars. The EFDC thing is a fun toy....but it in all honesty it takes you maybe 2 minutes to adjust all 4 corners without it. And you'll only really be making adjustments when you're going from street to track or street to auto-x. What it comes down to is you don't NEED all those other in between settings when you have a GOOD damper. Most KW owners will tell you that they leave it in one place and it works great all of the time. I'd choose good solid valving with lots of suspension travel over an electronic dohickey any day. - Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 One last questoin if I may...Would you say the V2s or the T1s are stiffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 The T1s will vary depending on which spring set-up you be. W/ the 400/400, they will be almost identical to KW V2s. For you, I recommend the Tarmacs w 400/350. Still good performance and the great dampening of the KWs, but slightly less stiff springs in the rear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Interesting! I didn't realize I could order these in different rates. I've heard the T1s described as "stiffer" than the V2s. Perhaps this was the 400/400s? I do hate the horrible squat our cars have, so if I go 400/350, will there still be a lot of that? I know I can't be too picky here, just looking for input. Any is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Interesting! I didn't realize I could order these in different rates. I've heard the T1s described as "stiffer" than the V2s. Perhaps this was the 400/400s? I do hate the horrible squat our cars have, so if I go 400/350, will there still be a lot of that? I know I can't be too picky here, just looking for input. Any is appreciated! Well the 400/350's will certainly get rid of a lot of the squat as compared to stock. There won't be much left. I think for your situation the 400/350's will be great. But my advice would be to wait for the reviews of the T1's that will be popping up pretty soon and go from there. - Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Not sure what's the logic behind puting softer springs in the rear. Factory springs, STI springs, Bilsteins coilovers - all come with stiffer springs in the rear (vs. front) which supposedly suits the multilink rear suspension the car has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I was wondering about that too, hence my question about the squat. RCE- Thanks a ton for the info. so far! Any input to what Matt said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 My guess is softer springs in rear (vs. front) should shift things towards understeerish but of course it's not that simple, other factors are relevant, too (e.g. sways, damping). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I haven't been too aggressive on dry pavement with my Suby yet...My Acura had terrible understeer, so I lowered the front more than the rear to make it spin like a top. Does the LGT have understeer issues with the higher front end? I aim to make the car even once I am done, not lower in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I haven't been too aggressive on dry pavement with my Suby yet...My Acura had terrible understeer, so I lowered the front more than the rear to make it spin like a top. Does the LGT have understeer issues with the higher front end? I aim to make the car even once I am done, not lower in the back. Any input from Praedet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Also, I understand there are some sort of knuckle joints that will compensate for positive camber when cornering, but I can't find them. Anybody seen these, or better yet...anybody used them and have pics?! Any info. is greatly appreciated! I think you are referring to the Whiteline Roll-Center Adjustment Kit. It includes 2 ball joints and 2 outer tie-rods, and will restore the static linkage geometry. Supposedly designed for cars dropped 1"+. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 EDFC is nothing more than a motorized adjuster for the lazy people that doesnt bother opening the hood of the car and the trunk to turn the dial. Really, it's just a bling factor (if you ever get to read the manual, you aren't suppose to adjust the coilovers while the car is moving, because that will damage the shocks.. you're suppose to adjust them while the car is parked when the suspension isn't actively moving). In all, we really dont know what your neck can take in terms of comfort afterall, it's your body that will have to deal with the jolting. Perhaps you may want to think about just not modding the car in order to save your neck from pain. Don't aggrevate it more than you need to. You may end up toying with the fact of fun vs. health issues. A neck is a very important part of your body, where arteries and the such are vital to your brain. So if you get driving fatigue from neck cramps from your possible upgraded suspension, you may end up enduring a lot more during a longer road trips than just a 20 minute drive to work. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 If it's any indication, I can still spend a day snowboarding and only have slight discomfort. It's not too big of a deal. I ultimately just want the softest, most comfortable setup that will still perform. I'm so obsessed with performance that it is worth occasional discomfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I think you are referring to the Whiteline Roll-Center Adjustment Kit. It includes 2 ball joints and 2 outer tie-rods, and will restore the static linkage geometry. Supposedly designed for cars dropped 1"+. Yes! That's the one. Anybody used these? Any input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack ffr1846 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you have neck/back issues, you'll want to be able to make relatively easy suspension changes. I'm not a big fan of coilovers for the street as it's a lot of money for very little return. I would recommend first changing the shocks to some adjustable ones. Tire Rack shows Koni inserts: http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Subaru&autoModel=Legacy+Sedan+2.5+GT&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=Limited&brand=all I've run tokiko adjustables in the past (a CRX, actually) with great results. You can stiffen them up when you want to flog the car a bit and then when you get tired of being banged around, soften them back up. In addition, if you autocross or track the car, you can still run in a stock class. You can do sway bars, but think about what you're looking to do. In our cars, we're typically looking for more oversteer. Bigger rear bar and call it a day. The front is just going to bring the understeer back. Sways will usually bump you up a class for AX or track. About $600 for the konis and a mild upgrade of the rear bar. You'll be far happier and not be screwing around with coilover adjustments every weekend. If you do decide to go coilovers, corner weigh the car stock, install the coilovers and corner weigh it again to get your initial adjustments right. jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I was wondering about that too, hence my question about the squat. RCE- Thanks a ton for the info. so far! Any input to what Matt said? The joy of this is that if someone gets 400/400 and wants it softer, they can swap the rear out for the 350's. With that said, yes the 350 rear option might be your ticket. Add some front camber and you could fight off that understeer. But for the op its key to remember that its easy to overthink your suspension and also your driving. That last part is key. Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 So I had to drive my wife's 6 today because I was getting her cracked windshield replaced. Her stock car rides more comfortably than my LGT and corners significantly better. Less "floaty" feel on corners, tighter, and much smoother. I'm willing to spend what it takes to get that. I don't understand why there isn't a soft coilover out there. I gather the V2s will be stiffer than stock, so I may need to proceed cautiously. It sounds like just a JDM rear sway is a good bet. I can't remember who I asked this question of, but I never got an answer. Why can a BMW, for example, ride more comfortably and corner MUCH better than my LGT? What is it I have to do to achieve that balance? This doesn't seem that complicated. Do I need a heavier vehicle? Is that why the LGT feels "floaty", because it is lightweight? Do I need at least 8" wheels? Will a JDM rear sway perform magic? (don't answer that ) Perhaps a better question is, does a BMW (ride and performance I want) have better sways, bushings, springs, shocks, chassis rigidity, wheels, tires, and more ...and that is why it has what I want? Should I just get started on doing all these things, or go buy a 1 series? Please excuse all the questions, I'm trying not to be annoying. I saw a thread on coilovers that went up to $5K and have been trying to find it. Anyone seen it? Is this the answer to my prayers. Should I buck up and get really expensive coilovers? Are the V2s beneath my standards? Am I too demanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 evening bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Honestly man..........you need to buy a BMW. I spent 3 months last year working a a pro driver for BMW North America taking press and media for hot laps at 6 tracks in the USA. I have ALOT of time in the latest and greatest made by the mark in question. To get that feel, or even come close to it. ...you need to find someone who has the Bilstein HD struts and drive it. I think that is more what you are looking for than a coilover. One thing the BMW's have that your Subaru doesnt have is wheel travel. So rather than confuse you,...STOP thinking about coilovers and buy another car. As someone who has had 10 Suburu's since 2000, most have been modded with most of whats available on the market, and considering your back and kneck issues,...stop thinking coilovers and get a softer car. But be aware...you can not have you cake and eat it too. You wont find a set up that is a CANYON CARVER yet as comfortable as a 550 Sport. You can throw tons of money at your Subaru, it wont be a BMW. THAT does NOT mean a well set up Subaru cant DEMOLISH a BMW.....because that happens all the time, but not done in the same comfort as a BMW. Thats my opinion, not that of RCE, but my personal opinion. I say that after looking at your post and your wants and needs. There HAS to be some trade off. Myles Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 ^ lot's of truth there. The smoothest yet with respectable handling choice is USDM Spec.B Bilsteins with stock springs or (JDM GT Rev.C Bilsteins - same thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 ^ lot's of truth there. The smoothest yet with respectable handling choice is USDM Spec.B Bilsteins with stock springs or (JDM GT Rev.C Bilsteins - same thing). WORD. But even with that "ticket" ............most ops dont take the advice. Not giving the OP here a hard time, but I have seen this a gazillion times and people dont listen to others who have stepped in poo and realized over and over......that poo stinks. Mw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whobaru Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 Not giving the OP here a hard time, but I have seen this a gazillion times and people dont listen to others who have stepped in poo and realized over and over......that poo stinks.:lol: Thanks for your input gentleman! Much appreciated. I prematurely assumed the more expensive coilover option must be a more well-rounded way to do things. However, after an EXTREMELY well-written and informative PM from XenonK (in all his wisdom and grammatic ability), I've discovered that longer traveling suspension like the stock setup is indeed what I am looking for. Sorry to all that took the time to give me great information on coilovers...I mean that. I truly appreciate everyone's input regardless and can now pass on what I have learned to other members. I think I may now do some Bilstein HDs with either stock springs or Pinks. What do you guys think of that? Honestly? I searched but couldn't find the difference in rates between the stock springs and Pinks. Anyone know it off-hand? Anyhoo, thanks again to everyone, I will continue to search and now learn more about different strut/spring combos. Any recommended combos like the Pinks with Bilstein? Is this a good combo? Do Bilsteins get along better with stock springs? Thanks again! Kagen aka ilikecheese aka kagenmateer aka whobaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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