Subaru adondoning manual transmissions?

[Gator GT]

A manual is better in inclement weather

 

I'll say no also. Smoother response on an auto will break traction less. Also the ability to start out in second with most autos is a good thing.

 

 

 

My co-worker has a 2007 G35-S and absolutely HATES that he can't start off in 2nd gear. That's a premium car limiting you on what you can do. Yes, he has the paddle shifters.

 

He doesn't admit this much, but he is envious of my B for 2 things:

1. I can start in ANY gear I want (obvious reprocussions for higher gears at low mph )

 

2. I have AWD.

 

he said he bought with his heart and not his mind when he chose the S version over the 35x.

 

I don't care if he bought with his spleen....he still admitted being envious of my B!

[Gator GT]

 

Look, seems like a young crowd here and I drove sticks for years. Get a little older, sit in traffic one time too many with a clutch and you will enjoy the luxury of a fine automatic tranny.

 

Assume nothing about age and correlation of sitting in traffic.

 

Since I've started driving at 17 (I'm 29 now), I've had 5 cars:

 

1. 84 GMC Sierra Classic loaded (V8 and an AT)

2. 93 Jeep Cherokee Sport bare (I-6 and MT)

3. 98 Legacy GT (H-4 and MT)

4. 00 Taco (I-4 and AT)

5. 07 LGT-B (H-4 and MT) <-- current

 

I lived in Metro DC after college and during that time I had the Jeep. I lived in I-495 Capital Beltway traffic (4 lanes wide each direction it looked worse than a parking lot at Disney World) with that MT...sure it sucked....but I still did not and do not regret having that during that time.

 

I now live an hour outside of Boston and visit the city every once in a while. Something is wrong if you go to Boston and DON'T sit in traffic . I still don't mind it the MT.

 

I hate the 'inactiveness' of the AT. period. And for the record, the AT in the Taco sucked. On slow, smoothly feathered starts, it launched harder than a bucking MT...and it was well taken care of (not beat on and maintained).

 

 

Granted, I don't have kids or a wife, so who knows what that will do to my attitude of the MT....but I doubt it'll be much. Maybe just a bit more of a hassle....or maybe none at all. Keep the kids buckled, let the wife listen to what she wants and call it good .

 

And NO PETS!

[Gator GT]

it's important to remember your personal priorities; Try answering the cell phone, while you input an address into your GPS, with your coffee between your legs

 

WRONG! Put that ish down! Drive the effin car! There is voicemail for a reason!

 

get your passenger to input into GPS or pull over!

 

and find your cupholder!

[ehsnils]

That obviously shows that SOA is considering abandoning the MT, not AT. This is a recurrent trend at SOA, as evidenced by their current offering of the 3.0R only w/ an AT, recent history of killing the MT LGT wagon, and distant history of offering the flagship SVX only w/ an AT. What good stuff Fuji Heavy Industries giveth, SOA takes away. Soon we'll all be driving Foresters, Outbacks, and Tribecas!

 

Just curious - is it possible for an US citizen to import a car from Canada - or is it the same problem there? Or are there legal problems arising?

 

 

At least - in later years the automatic gearboxes has gotten a lot better - but there are situations where you really would prefer a manual.

[Vimy101]

Even if the STI was still avail in manual. I thought the survey was going to be about ditching that crappy 5 spd and 4eat to go with a 6spd man and auto, not inquiring about ditching manuals all together.

 

The 5mt is a great match for the car, IMHO. It's strong and covers the torque band very nicely. In my 06, I hit 60 before redline in 2nd gear and 80 before redline in 3rd. 3rd gear is really a hoot. Friggin' car just dances.

[sactojesse]

Look, seems like a young crowd here and I drove sticks for years. Get a little older, sit in traffic one time too many with a clutch and you will enjoy the luxury of a fine automatic tranny.

I don't think age is necessarily a factor. I'm 38 and have only owned one AT car, a 1983 Mercedes 300D, which only came w/ a 4AT. I've owned nine MT cars, including 1970 VW Bug (4MT), 1965 VW Karmann-Ghia (4MT), 1969 VW Karmann-Ghia (4MT), 1972 VW Camper (4MT), 1960 Mercedes 220b fintail (4MT column shifter), 1986 Isuzu Impulse Turbo (5MT), 1994 Suzuki Sidekick 4-door 4x4 (5MT), 1998 Nissan Frontier King Cab 4x4 (5MT), and my 2005 LGT wagon (5MT). Come to think of it, all have been either RWD, 4WD, or AWD too. As far as commuting is concerned, I commuted 70 miles/day w/ that Suzuki Sidekick, but my current commute is fairly short.

[sactojesse]

Just curious - is it possible for an US citizen to import a car from Canada - or is it the same problem there? Or are there legal problems arising?

It depends on the car. The Canadian Legacies are made at the same SIA facility in Lafayette, IN, as the U.S. cars, so crash testing and emissions aren't an issue. The issue is that Canadian LGTs retail for significantly ($10k +) more than U.S. LGTs.

[stewartg]

The Subaru 5MT is possibly the worst manual I have ever had the displeasure of driving. I test drove a 06 LGT and spec.b, the clutch was no better than my 2000 Impreza RS. Too soft and mushy, poor engagement. The only thing worse is the 4ACT in my new 08 Impreza. The wife can't drive manual, so we had to get a auto (atleast she will never drive my 07 spec). In normal mode its dog slow and uninviting, put it into sport and the thing shifts up and down way more than needed, and it is never in the right gear. When you press the gas peddle it takes 3 - 4 seconds before it shifts and revs. So I always drive it in manual where I can still shift it smoother and get better gas mileage than in normal or sport, but I sometimes down shift if i want to get to 2nd or 4th because I forget what I am driving. This is my 5th Subaru but if this is what we have to look forward to with Subaru autos and no choice of manual I am not that brand loyal and would leave the brand in an instant.

 

Subaru doesn't allow you (or a passenger) to enter addresses into the nav while driving. They make cup holders for a reason. Use hands free if you constantly need to talk while driving. Shifting is such a no-brainer and simple act that a auto makes no sense for an enthusiast. For someone that does more than average commuting or transporting autos are a nice luxury, but even in traffic a manual is so second nature it is not a burden for the pleasure it provides.

 

The benefits of a manual transmission far out weight an auto IMHO. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I don't think less of auto drivers, but if Subaru no longer offered me a decent manual, I would no longer offer them my cash.

[DukeTrout]

When I drive a rental car in the US, my right hand and left foot get bored.

 

I like renting in Europe - you can choose MT in most vehicles. The BMW 320d that I rented last June had enough torque to break loose the rear tires if I goosed it too much. That's from a 2.0 liter. Nice.

 

I'd leave Subaru if they dropped manual transmissions. Once again, SOA product planners are asleep at the wheel. Most other manufacturers are re-introducing manual transmissions in their performance cars after abandoning them, and SOA is caught with their pants down going the wrong way. *shakes head*

[DukeTrout]

Oh, and there's no point in making it an AT vs. MT driver thing. There is absolutely no danger of AT going the way of the dodo. The reason MT drivers like myself get all worked up about this stuff isn't related at all to ego, it's related to preference. If Subaru went to only one color, let's say the new $hit bronze, would you still buy one? Pleeze.

[stewartg]

Oh, and there's no point in making it an AT vs. MT driver thing. There is absolutely no danger of AT going the way of the dodo. The reason MT drivers like myself get all worked up about this stuff isn't related at all to ego, it's related to preference. If Subaru went to only one color, let's say the new $hit bronze, would you still buy one? Pleeze.

Well said, noone is any less of a driver because they choose auto especially since the gap in performance is being reduced. It is purely preference and you would never see me driving a PZEV $hit bronze AT.

[chenc544]

I have a question for people that would not buy a car that comes in DSG only. Would you buy a car that utilizes a traditional clutch paddle but is fundamentally is a DSG? What I mean is if the DSG's manual mode would require the driver to control the clutch instead of simply selecting the gear. Do you believe that would maintain the fun/involvement factor that you crave from a manual transmission? Of course the DSG will still maintain the ability to go fully automatic as well. Basically, can you have the cake and eat it too...

[Guest]

I have a question for people that would not buy a car that comes in DSG only. Would you buy a car that utilizes a traditional clutch paddle but is fundamentally is a DSG? What I mean is if the DSG's manual mode would require the driver to control the clutch instead of simply selecting the gear. Do you believe that would maintain the fun/involvement factor that you crave from a manual transmission? Of course the DSG will still maintain the ability to go fully automatic as well. Basically, can you have the cake and eat it too...

 

 

DSG is sequential automatic transmission by design. It's not manual, or should I say, conventional tranismission by any stretch of imagination.

[Jack ffr1846]

Oh, and there's no point in making it an AT vs. MT driver thing. There is absolutely no danger of AT going the way of the dodo. The reason MT drivers like myself get all worked up about this stuff isn't related at all to ego, it's related to preference. If Subaru went to only one color, let's say the new $hit bronze, would you still buy one? Pleeze.

 

 

I'm very much looking forward to the survey. Although some of these cars were not on my final list, not having a manual tranny immediately took them off my list. I can afford any of these cars and chose my LGT 5mt.

 

Maserati Quattroporte

Infiniti G35X

Lexus is250 AWD

 

 

The dealer had my #1 and #2 color choice on the lot (white, blue) and my "ok" choice of color (silver) plus an 07 leftover in blue all with autos and at a better price. I made the deal and gave them the latitude to get any color because I really don't care (my son picked the color of my last car and wife the previous). I got the "deep bronze" that they had to go to a dealer 100 miles away to make the trade. If they could not have found a manual, I would have kept my Mazda 6i with it's 5 speed and waited and bought something else with a manual.

 

I do understand that I am in a small minority in the US, not only preferring a manual, but demanding one. I also prefer no sunroof, but was out of luck since subaru considers the LGT a lux car, unless I decide to have it cut out at a body shop at a later time.

 

I can honestly say that if the LGT was $1k more for a MT vs an AT, I would have paid the extra. My plow/tow vehicle has an automatic, but all my other cars are manuals.

 

People who prefer an automatic for whatever reason are not less or to be looked down at or unskilled. It's a preference. Heck....my wife is the total opposite. HER car MUST be an auto or she won't consider buying it.

 

jack

[chenc544]

 

DSG is sequential automatic transmission by design. It's not manual, or should I say, conventional tranismission by any stretch of imagination.

 

I'm talking about a hypothetical DSG, not a modification of current DSG. I don't want to get into if this is possible, simply if a DSG type transmission with driver controllable clutch will satisfy the fun/control factor.

[sactojesse]

People who prefer an automatic for whatever reason are not less or to be looked down at or unskilled. It's a preference. Heck....my wife is the total opposite. HER car MUST be an auto or she won't consider buying it.

That's not always the case. Despite having learned to drive 20 years ago on an MT VW Bus, my wife currently drives an AT because she lacks the skill to properly drive a MT vehicle. I've seen her try and it's not pretty.

[chenc544]

Let me rephrase the question, maybe this will get my question across better. What if you have a traditional manual transmission in every way, single clutch, H-gate, clutch paddle for the driver the whole 9 yard. But the clutch is also attached to an actuator that can automatically do the clutch work for you in automatic mode. I believe Toyota did this a while ago with the MR2 SMG, minus the clutch paddle for the driver. Anyway, it wasn't very good, but we know it's possible. Let's just say someone perfected it. So in manual mode from the driver's POV you will not be able to tell it apart from a traditional manual transmission. Would this transmission satisfy the fun/control allure of the traditional box?

[Guest]

I'm talking about a hypothetical DSG, not a modification of current DSG. I don't want to get into if this is possible, simply if a DSG type transmission with driver controllable clutch will satisfy the fun/control factor.

 

It's very hypothetical. Don't see if anything like DSG could be made non-sequential.

 

Even if it, the answer is still no. I have no need or desire for auto mode at all. Why would I want added cost, weight and complexity.

[Guest]

That's not always the case. Despite having learned to drive 20 years ago on an MT VW Bus, my wife currently drives an AT because she lacks the skill to properly drive a MT vehicle. I've seen her try and it's not pretty.

 

That's something I find hard to believe. If one has IQ above 70, two hands and two legs he/she can drive manual. Maybe not perfectly, but decently enough and would improve over time. I think, because there is easy way out (autos) people like your wife do not really want to learn. No disrespect meant, but how otherwise explain that everyone who needs to drive in Europe somehow can master the skill?

[tytek]

 

DSG is sequential automatic transmission by design. It's not manual, or should I say, conventional transmission by any stretch of imagination.

 

Cracker please...

 

A DSG (Audi) is an fully automated manual. It shares its architecture, but has two output shafts with 3 gear set per shaft. Having both shafts spin at the same time, the shifts are quicker. It has nothing to do with a design of an auto - not TC, no valve body etc.

 

Stop spreading misinformation.

[SLegacy99]

Look, seems like a young crowd here and I drove sticks for years. Get a little older, sit in traffic one time too many with a clutch and you will enjoy the luxury of a fine automatic tranny.

 

Umm my sister lives in NYC and she drives a stick...and my dad is 57 and he still is rowing his own gears your wimp.

[Vimy101]

The Subaru 5MT is possibly the worst manual I have ever had the displeasure of driving.

 

Funny how that is not my impression at all. Strong and completely covers the power band though a taller 5th woiuld be good for high speed econo cruising. However, I do get to ~28 mpg on long cruises no doubt thanks to the larger diameter wheels. Clutch engagement is super smooth and positive. It putts along nicely in rush hour traffic and has neck snapping strong engagement on hard launches and WOT gear changing. The short throw shifter can be notchy but once you learn it what it likes it's just fine.

 

I will admit that when I first got the Spec. that the clutch was a bit of a mystery because it's engagement point was so incredibly smooth at low rpms. But now that I'm used to it, it's as easy or easier to modulate than any clutch I've ever operated.

 

"Displeasure of driving."

[sactojesse]

That's something I find hard to believe. If one has IQ above 70, two hands and two legs he/she can drive manual. Maybe not perfectly, but decently enough and would improve over time. I think, because there is easy way out (autos) people like your wife do not really want to learn. No disrespect meant, but how otherwise explain that everyone who needs to drive in Europe somehow can master the skill?

I was joking. My wife rides the clutch so hard I won't let her drive my cars! She knows how to drive stick but just sucks at it. Gulp, that could be interpreted the wrong way.

[SLegacy99]

I was joking. My wife rides the clutch so hard I won't let her drive my cars! She knows how to drive stick but just sucks at it. Gulp, that could be interpreted the wrong way.

 

I can agree with this. My buddy knows the concepts behind driving a manual he just can't execute it.

[stewartg]

For many the choice of Auto or Manual IS driver skill, yes, I don't think anyone can dispute that. I still believe everyone should learn to drive on a manual because you never know when the skill may be needed. Last time I moved the only uhaul available was a manual. What if you are too impaired to drive and want someone else to drive but no one knows manual and so you have to have the extra expense of two cab rides? There are many situations where the skills to operate a manual transmission car could be required. I taught my wife to drive a manual, she can drive a Honda SI 6 speed no problem, but can't get the spec.b to second gear.

 

For others it is a luxury option. If I drove a cab or shuttle or had any other job that required me to drive 30K+ miles a year, I would probably opt for a auto.

 

Yet still, too many drivers are too distracted to drive a manual. They shouldn't even be on the road in the first place, but thats life. They don't need any more distraction, they cause enough accidents as it is.

 

For others, they may prefer a manual but their significant other only drives an auto.

 

Then there is the minority of enthusiasts that meet one or all of the above scenarios, or just plain out prefer a auto and the minor hit in performance, and control is acceptable. Or they drag or whatever.

 

Whatever the reason someone chooses auto trans, it is still their choice and should not be frowned upon. For many manual is still the preference and that option should always remain available.

 

Subaru just does not know how to make a decent auto with sport shift, I would hate to see their attempts at making a dsg style transmission. I like not being able to take my foot off the gas between shifts, but even in manual mode I could shift a lot faster and smoother than my Impreza does. A manual shift in sport mode takes about 2 seconds and is almost always accompanied by jerking.

 

From the reviews of the GT-R it seems to be the best implementation of a DSG to date, but as is very evident in the Evo X the SST does not give the driver the same control and performance as a manual. I would be happy having a dead clutch pedal with a DSG just to make me feel like I am doing something, but I am sure before long I would be missing the control that clutch pedal gave me.

 

I have yet to see any spec.B owner state that they wish their car was available in a auto transmission. Maybe those guys are buying 5EAT GT's? It is wrong for Subaru to assume however that the slow spec.B sales are because it is not available in auto. I don't see the 3.0R flying off of the lots either. As has been proven on this forum most people do not perceive the spec.B or 3.0R to be worth the extra money, even though a 3.0R costs less than a GT with VCD and Nav.

 

The option of a 6MT and 6EAT across the model lineup is the direction they should be headed. Or in place of a 6EAT a DSG style tranny would be appreciated. If a spec.b came with a DSG I would test drive it, but would be unlikely to make a purchase.