Subaru adondoning manual transmissions?

[BigInALegacy]

That being said... if Subaru ditches the MT they're just stupid. I really can't see that being a smart move for them. You have to have the option available.

 

Although they did get rid of the wagon in the US, so I guess what they'll do in the end is anyone's guess!

[Guest]

Not sure how your right foot moves less in an MT vs AT. I'd say they have to move equally (both have a gas and brake pedal that both operate the same), just with the MT you have to clutch too. And also not sure what's lame about what I said? All seem to be valid points to me.

 

I'm not trying to start the AT vs MT debate, god knows this has been beat to death in here, and really it just depends what your using it for, and that's the bottom line no matter what anyone says. Whats best for one may not be best for the other.

 

I know how to drive both, I just chose the AT. It's what I preferred for what I was using the car for. Do I regret it, no. It's a commuter car with 15,000 miles already, and I love it so no qualms from me here.

 

The tidbit quicker it gets off the line is a non-issue to me. If I wanted a racecar, I'd have gotten an STi/Evo/Vette. And just the way one may say "well you can put money into the LGT and make it as fast as an STi..."... I would say: "you can put money into a 5EAT and make it as fast as a 5MT"

 

Your "valid" points and choice of slushbox Legacy directly contribute to demise of manual transmissions in this handicapped (driving skills wise) country and that's on topic of this thread.

 

IMHO the only justified use for AT (outside of being crippled) is off-roading. Other than that these are excuses for lack of skill/ or being lazy.

 

And yeah, engine braking and partial clutch reduce need for braking when driivng/crawling in traffic and thus eliminate constant right foot movemnet between gas and brake pedal.

[SLegacy99]

I sat in traffic yesterday. Doesn't bother me enough to give up the fun of driving MT.

[Richard B.]

wow...all i hear is blah blah blah...and a ton of misconceptions and assumptions.

 

how about an analogy?

 

ONLY real cooks use the camp fire? no the microwave, not the stove, not a convection oven...etc...

 

ever thought of convenience? your remote control for example for your tv. i love macro functions. oh wait...i love my 5eat as well.

 

there are many reason why some chose one over the other.

 

i think its funny how you guys think the stick is better at 60ft than the auto and is easier to launch. what are you smoking? please go back and look at the posted times you will find it's all over the place but practically the same.

 

what about the lack of boost when a manual shifts? and how the whole car lurches like mad? whats the point of taking your foot off the brake for all out drag racing? the auto? smooth transition.

 

the manual is faster?? nope...i will tell you why...the gearing is 100% different. the gearing on the 5eat is not built for the exact same rate of acceleration as the manual. why in the world you guys can't see this is beyond me. make them the EXACT same ratio from 1-5 and final and i promise you the manual guys will be crying.

 

fact...the 5eat is built better for cruising and has a faster top speed. thats right. due to the slower gears its cruising is much better. at 100 i am at 3500 rpms and at 80 t 2800. AND if you wanna talk fast? the manual is in fact slower than the auto.

 

 

fact...just as you guys upgrade the clutch and manual parts we can upgrade the auto as well. t/c upgrade and we can launch at 4k easy. we too can change gear ratios...etc...nothing is un-moddable.

 

what i notice too is the misconception about driving an auto. its hard to explain but you can drive it to shift the way you want. these days you can shift manually. blah blah blah.

 

face it. the manual is going to be extinct. the clutchless manual (NOT dsg, not smg not every other marketing name) its a clutchless manual. did i say clutchless manual? oooh. i did. it is in fact a manual. it will shift better than you. quicker than you. if you want a slower archaic version, so be it. don't cry when you street race and miss a shift. i personally would love a clutchless manual (sequential as noted by other laces). i could "row" my own or let it go. practically the same as i can do now with the 5 eat. anyways...the sequential will give the best of both worlds. imo subaru and every other auto maker will prolly just drop all the trannies for this kind. the way subaru is pretty stingy, it will be interesting.

 

btw...you think that 30 people complaining on this forum means anything to te mass market subaru sells to? you, and i, are nothing when compared to their over all sales volume. even in its limited niche. you think subaru will sell any gt's once an awd turbo tsx hits the market? please. most of us considered the tsx because of the price range. point...get over yourself. you are not gonna control a manufacturer from your whining. don't like it? they don't care. go buy something else. you think for one second they don't know what they are doing by canceling certain things that only a few people want? how many spec b's could they sell if they had a 6 speed auto as well? then the gt owners would be crying there is no 6speed auto just as much as the manual drivers wish they had the 6 speed manual. how about how many more autos they could have sold if a manual counterpart wasn't taking up space on the lot?

 

obviously there are pros and cons to either. we choose what fits our life at that time. don't go turning this into some choice war. i don't make fun of you for wearing a seiko right? so why can't everyone quit trying to act better than the other over a tranny option? we chose what we have for a reason. what ever reason that is, does it matter to you? i could easily say you are a loser for wearing nike and not ecco. does it matter?

[Richard B.]

Your "valid" points and choice of slushbox Legacy directly contribute to demise of manual transmissions in this handicapped (driving skills wise) country and that's on topic of this thread.

 

IMHO the only justified use for AT (outside of being crippled) is off-roading. Other than that these are excuses for lack of skill/ or being lazy.

 

And yeah, engine braking and partial clutch reduce need for braking when driivng/crawling in traffic and thus eliminate constant right foot movemnet between gas and brake pedal.

 

ignorance...driving "skills" is not based upon a transmission.

 

in case you didn't know. the manufacture puts the constant movement in the auto on purpose. it's not a side effect.

 

btw, what's it like on a hill? i never roll back and i will left foot brake if it's some moron right on my bumper.

 

please, for the love of mankind, think before your open your fingers.

[Richard B.]

I sat in traffic yesterday. Doesn't bother me enough to give up the fun of driving MT.

 

cool.

 

 

i was doing 90 at 545 am and it didn't make me want to drop the auto.

 

the brake pad otoh suck balls when slowing too fast at that speed. thinking about pad upgrade for my overdue 15k service.

[Richard B.]

here...please read this...

 

 

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/gearbox/tech_gear_manual.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

 

check the first paragraph and read why it says europe started all of this.

[BigInALegacy]

Whoa... hey Richard.. everyone, just breath and relax!

 

No need to turn into a screaming match! I say again, the LGT is great in MT or AT, I drove both and it just depends what you want out of it.

 

I never even knew the MT sales were suffering that much, honestly I though 5EAT's were the minority.

 

Hey, if you call me lazy because given the choice of having to shift for an hour at 6:30 EVERY morning or not, I chose not to... then I guess I'm lazy and I can live with that. I have to do it and not you, and I'm more than happy with my AT! I'm glad you love you MT too!

 

And I don't see how trading moving your left foot in an MT makes up for not having to move your right in an AT... your basically saying to use the clutch as a brake in a direct trade-off if I'm reading right. But again to each their own, and we both love our cars so that's all that matters!

 

Subaru should listen to their customers.. we buy the cars! Don't ditch the MT though... my next one will probably be an MT if they don't go screw it up!

[Richard B.]

Whoa... hey Richard.. everyone, just breath and relax!

 

No need to turn into a screaming match! I say again, the LGT is great in MT or AT, I drove both and it just depends what you want out of it.

 

I never even knew the MT sales were suffering that much, honestly I though 5EAT's were the minority.

 

Hey, if you call me lazy because given the choice of having to shift for an hour at 6:30 EVERY morning or not, I chose not to... then I guess I'm lazy and I can live with that. I have to do it and not you, and I'm more than happy with my AT! I'm glad you love you MT too!

 

And I don't see how trading moving your left foot in an MT makes up for not having to move your right in an AT... your basically saying to use the clutch as a brake in a direct trade-off if I'm reading right. But again to each their own, and we both love our cars so that's all that matters!

 

Subaru should listen to their customers.. we buy the cars! Don't ditch the MT though... my next one will probably be an MT if they don't go screw it up!

 

i am faaar from angry. just want people to think for a sec on what they are arguing about and why.

 

dude. i have a 5eat as well. doesn't bother me who drives what. ok, i lied. i want a sequential.

[rudy]

face it. the manual is going to be extinct. the clutchless manual (NOT dsg, not smg not every other marketing name) its a clutchless manual. did i say clutchless manual? oooh. i did. it is in fact a manual.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but once again, DSG is a dual-clutch transmission. So, I agree with you that's it's a manual, but it's not clutchless. That's the reason why it's as efficient as a conventional manual (still uses a clutch) but faster shifting than a conventional manual because it queues up the next shift before it happens. It's basically in 2 gears simultaneously, the one that is driving the car and the other that it anticipates shifting into.

 

Conventional automatics, with torque converters, even if similarly geared will be slower due to increased powerloss through the system. They're good for consistency and being able to brake-boost a launch, but that's about it.

[krzyss]

"clutchless" in this context means no clutch pedal, usually. It says nothing about the clutch presence in the drivetrain.

 

Krzys

 

PS In regard of MT future with Subaru. They already killed Legacy wagon. They can simplify their option list by removing manual. It fits nicely their recent moves. The word "option" or "optional" must be forbidden at SOA HQ.

As far as I can tell our family will have at least one MT and one AT car.

[johnAWD]

My only input to this thread is that if Subaru abandons manual trannys, I'll abandon Subaru.

[Guest]

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but once again, DSG is a dual-clutch transmission. So, I agree with you that's it's a manual, but it's not clutchless.

 

Negative. DSG is an automatic transmission by each and every definition.

[vet]

Negative. DSG is an automatic transmission by each and every definition.

 

Doesn't an AT need a torque converter?

[Guest]

Doesn't an AT need a torque converter?

 

Conventional AT sure. Some CVT designs do not require torque converter.

 

Manual transmission is one that cannot be operated in automatic fashion by design (not the case with DSG). Likewise, changing gears is performed by a physical linkage operated by hand.

 

man·u·al (măn'yū-əl) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif

adj.

1. 1. 
      
   2. Of or relating to the hands: manual skill.
      
   3. Done by, used by, or operated with the hands.
      
   4. Employing human rather than mechanical energy: manual labor.

[*] Of, relating to, or resembling a small reference book.

[vet]

Conventional AT sure. Some CVT designs do not require torque converter.

 

Manual transmission is one that cannot be operated in automatic fashion by design (not the case with DSG). Likewise, changing gears is performed by a physical linkage operated by hand.

 

man·u·al (măn'yū-əl) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif

adj.

1. 1. 
      
   2. Of or relating to the hands: manual skill.
      
   3. Done by, used by, or operated with the hands.
      
   4. Employing human rather than mechanical energy: manual labor.

[*] Of, relating to, or resembling a small reference book.

 

That's all great but it doesn't prove that DSG is an automatic as you stated. DSG is usually referred to as an automated manual but it's certainly not anything like a traditional AT.

[Vimy101]

Mt FTMFW

[Richard B.]

Mt FTMFW

 

 

what evah.

 

manual transmissions are for the common folk.

[Vimy101]

AT iS COMMON.

 

MT FTMFW!

 

"Good evening, sir. What's you pleasure?"

[Richard B.]

AT iS COMMON.

 

MT FTMFW!

 

"Good evening, sir. What's you pleasure?"

 

 

i'm sorry. my butler tells me your transmission is of the poor.

 

 

hahaha...guess the reference.

[SLegacy99]

i'm sorry. my butler tells me your transmission is of the poor.

 

 

hahaha...guess the reference.

 

Actually my transmission saves me money. My AT Leggy only got 28 mpg hwy, but MT gets 32 hwy. Woot woot. It pays to be competent.

[Vimy101]

i'm sorry. my butler tells me your transmission is of the poor.

 

 

hahaha...guess the reference.

 

No want to guess bz no desire to know.

 

MT FTMFW.

[bama16]

oh no..i agree, autos have a place in all our hearts. but the correlation of my hand and the desired outcome from the vehicle is too much for me to chance to the computer and what it thinks is best in a certain situation. i know this car isn't fast...dynos have shown a whoppin what...180whp from these 3500lb cars....i have a 2300lb 240z that pumps out over 400rwhp...it's pretty freakin quick too.

[Guest]

That's all great but it doesn't prove that DSG is an automatic as you stated. DSG is usually referred to as an automated manual but it's certainly not anything like a traditional AT.

 

Of course it's not like traditional hydraulic transmission. The principle of DSG operation is not manual, hence by definition it can't be called manual. The fact someone calls it manual is irrelevant, semantics of word "manual" is fairly clear.

 

As there is a few variants in manual transmission designs, there are many more in automatic transmissions designs: traditional, CVT, DSG.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Even Audi refers to DSG as "Automatic Direct Shift Gearbox":

 

http://www.audi.co.nz/search/search_article.asp?artid=-1674102347&artkeyword=dsg

 

Automatic direct shift gearbox (DSG)

 

 

http://www.audi.co.nz/liveupdater/ImageLibrary/Glossary-dsg.jpg The revolutionary direct shift gearbox (DSG) combines the advantages of a conventional six-speed manual-shift gearbox with the qualities possessed by a modern automatic transmission. The driver enjoys immense agility and driving pleasure with, at the same time, smooth, dynamic acceleration with no interruption to the power flow.

 

The technical basis of the direct shift gearbox (DSG) is a double clutch. This consists of two wet plate-type clutches with hydraulically regulated contact pressure. One of the two clutches engages the odd-numbered, the other the even-numbered gears. This principle enables gear shifts to be made without interrupting the power flow and keeps the shift times extremely short. While the first clutch is transmitting the power, the second clutch is ready to engage the next gear, which is preselected. When the driver makes the gear shift, the first clutch is released and the second engages, so that the gear shift takes place in a fraction of a second.

 

The driver can operate the DSG manually or allow changes to take place automatically. In the automatic mode there is a choice between the well-balanced, comfortable standard shift settings and a program with greater sports emphasis. Manual shifts are made either at the gear lever or at shift paddles behind the steering wheel.

[Vimy101]

^ MT FTanthropormophicMFW