HAMMER DOWN Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I own a lot of autos. They suck, I buy what I could buy back then. I also replace the auto in every car or truck I own. They just don't hold up to my driving, about 40k a yr. A auto shit the bed, you out $2k +. Clutch goes, I'm out only $800 or so. That's why I'll will only own a MT for now on. The common folk what make the world go round. Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 ^ POW3R SOURCE aND P3RSONAL APPLICATION FTMFW, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Negative. DSG is an automatic transmission by each and every definition. Yes, and it is equally correct (or not) to say that our "all wheel drive" cars are in fact "four wheel drive," and vice versa. And that's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I own a lot of autos. They suck, I buy what I could buy back then. I also replace the auto in every car or truck I own. They just don't hold up to my driving, about 40k a yr. A auto shit the bed, you out $2k +. Clutch goes, I'm out only $800 or so. That's why I'll will only own a MT for now on. NOW you tell me! I have 172,000 miles on my 1997 LSi (purchased in '98 w/0k, now driven by my mother-in-law) and 179,000 on my 2000 GT Ltd (purchased in '03 w/30k, now driven by my oldest son), both ATs. I drive 30-40k per year. All my tranny's are original (wish I could say the same for my valves...). I'll have to be sure I get a MT after I break in my new 3.0R. I'd hate to have a tranny fail prematurely... BTW, when you do the clutch on your new Scooby, you might want to think about replacing the thrust bearing and possibly the main bearing on the tranny. The thrust bearing is what the clutch plate rides on when disengaged from the pressure plate and wears our from the frequent use. The main bearing on the tranny absorbs the brunt of the force generated when converting rotational force into forward momentum from "exuberant" shifting. This bearing also wears and is one of the reasons MTs start to get sloppy with age. I'm not sure about Scooby MTs, but they might also have a pilot bearing, which is a smaller bearing pressed into the block of the motor that also helps support the main shaft of the MT to keep it from wobbling and putting excessive force on the main bearing. MTs are usually cheaper to maintain, just remember, if you use it to help slow you down, you are using it as a large break pad. I don't know about you, but it takes me about an hour to replace the pads and rotors on a Scooby. I'm guessing it would be a little longer for a clutch and would probably cost more that the $200 it costs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vet Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Of course it's not like traditional hydraulic transmission. The principle of DSG operation is not manual, hence by definition it can't be called manual. The fact someone calls it manual is irrelevant, semantics of word "manual" is fairly clear. As there is a few variants in manual transmission designs, there are many more in automatic transmissions designs: traditional, CVT, DSG. I would agree that DSG can't be called manual; however, I certainly wouldn't call it AT either. Maybe it is just a semantics point. Are you saying everything must be one or the other (AT or MT)? I would suggest DSG combines aspects of both but is distinct from either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I would agree that DSG can't be called manual; however, I certainly wouldn't call it AT either. Maybe it is just a semantics point. Are you saying everything must be one or the other (AT or MT)? I would suggest DSG combines aspects of both but is distinct from either. Yeah, IMHO it's one or the other, notwithstanding mechanical similarities of DSG (or other related designs like SMG, Selespeed, etc) to typicial manual. In other words manual or automatic describes if the gear movement is done by hand power or not. I.e. no electric/electornics involved (unless say gear shifiting mechanism was electric but "dumb"). Also manually operated clutch is a requirement for fully manual transmission. If there was design where gears are changed by hand by clutch is operated somehow automatically, I'd agree such a design could be called "semi-manual" (or "semi-automatic"). Or, from software engineer perspective, if there is no software involved anywhere it's manual! DSG, CVT, hydraulic AT are just different designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER DOWN Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 NOW you tell me! I have 172,000 miles on my 1997 LSi (purchased in '98 w/0k, now driven by my mother-in-law) and 179,000 on my 2000 GT Ltd (purchased in '03 w/30k, now driven by my oldest son), both ATs. I drive 30-40k per year. All my tranny's are original (wish I could say the same for my valves...). I'll have to be sure I get a MT after I break in my new 3.0R. I'd hate to have a tranny fail prematurely... They was all GM's. The motors would run forever, The trannys are another story. For ex. 95 GMC 4x2, I sold it with 225k with a 4L80E out of 2001 GMC. That seem to hold every good. But before that the truck came with 4L60E. I went though 3 of them. Before I put the 1 ton tranny in. I never had good luck with auto. When it was time to buy new. I now my next vehicle was going to be MT. I don't really care what poeple drive A/T or MT. As long has the owners are happy with thier choose, because at the end of the day that's what really matters. And if a car maker don't or stop making what I want. I'll go somewhere that does. Or just put a in MT myself. Mike Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigInALegacy Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I don't really care what poeple drive A/T or MT. As long has the owners are happy with thier choose, because at the end of the day that's what really matters. Amen to that! You know, this thread has gone through a few variations of topic of discussion which is all well... but you know: Truth of the matter is, if people really think this is going to happen and are pissed about... why not write a letter to Subaru. A closed mouth doesn't get fed, and I doubt the SOA reps read these forums. It can't hurt the cause any right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Truth of the matter is, if people really think this is going to happen and are pissed about... why not write a letter to Subaru. A closed mouth doesn't get fed, and I doubt the SOA reps read these forums. It can't hurt the cause any right? Couldn't agree with you more. Personally, I think it would be a mistake to drop the MT from the lineup. Think about it; put together a screamer (think SpecB or STi) and have it reviewed by everyone who now publish reports on how they can't believe how fast this thing is.....and sell a boat load of them with ATs to people who don't want / can't drive the MT. Most people don't understand the difference enough to know todays ATs are usually a tad slower off the line....many don't care. If Road and Track or Car and Driver (both of which I believe referred to the GT's as "getaway Subies") say they are performance monsters, people will buy them as family cars that they can have fun with after dropping the kids off at daycare. How many Vipers does Dodge have to sell before they are perceived as understanding extreme performance? How many Challengers? How many ZR1 Vettes for GM? M5s for BMW? etc, etc. Heck, the Nissan Skyline has never even been imported (intro is this year in the Infinity) into the States, but everyone who follows motor sport, knows about it. They may not be the top sellers, but it's all about reputation. Let the public know you understand and are capable of producing extreme performance and that reputation can be leveraged across the entire line (start to offer "sport dressed" grocery getters and people will feel good about their family sedans, but only if there is the "big brother" out there, beating up the bad guys). I can't tell you how many kids thought my old 2000 GT was turbo'ed, because of the WRX stigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Amen to that! You know, this thread has gone through a few variations of topic of discussion which is all well... but you know: Truth of the matter is, if people really think this is going to happen and are pissed about... why not write a letter to Subaru. A closed mouth doesn't get fed, and I doubt the SOA reps read these forums. It can't hurt the cause any right?This thread was started in response to a survey some MT owners (myself included) filled out and sent to Subaru, in which we told them no MT, no Subaru. So in a sense our letters are out, it is just a healthy discussion around the topic. SOA has no interest in this or any car forum, which is very evident in their poor decisions the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigInALegacy Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I do realize that.... but SOME mt owners got surveys. I was just saying that the rest of the people who didn't could write. And even if you did get a survey, I don't think an additional letter would hurt. Hell, write them an email and save yourself .37 or whatever it costs now! At least then you're being proactive in your fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I can't tell you how many kids thought my old 2000 GT was turbo'ed, because of the WRX stigma. Oh people ask me all the time if my Subaru is the WRX. Kind of flattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruperts Trooper Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Yeah, IMHO it's one or the other, notwithstanding mechanical similarities of DSG (or other related designs like SMG, Selespeed, etc) to typicial manual. In other words manual or automatic describes if the gear movement is done by hand power or not. I.e. no electric/electornics involved (unless say gear shifiting mechanism was electric but "dumb"). Also manually operated clutch is a requirement for fully manual transmission. If there was design where gears are changed by hand by clutch is operated somehow automatically, I'd agree such a design could be called "semi-manual" (or "semi-automatic"). Or, from software engineer perspective, if there is no software involved anywhere it's manual! DSG, CVT, hydraulic AT are just different designs. In legal terms, on the east side of the pond, there are manuals or automatics - to be defined as an automatic there must be no clutch pedal and gear ratios selected without driver intervention. Fancy electronics or hydraulics which emulate a manual gearbox are good selling points but they're still automatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 If there was design where gears are changed by hand by clutch is operated somehow automatically, I'd agree such a design could be called "semi-manual" (or "semi-automatic"). VW and Porsche offered an "auto-stick" semi-automatic transmission on certain models in the late 1960s and early 1970s, including the Beetle, Karmann-Ghia, and 911. Essentially, it was a modified manual transmission with a vacuum controlled automatic clutch. You still had to shift gears, but there was no clutch pedal. When you were off the gas, the carburetor throttle plate was closed and the automatic clutch disengaged, allowing you to shift gears or stop the vehicle. Because the automatic clutch was vacuum controlled, you couldn't speed shift it and resultant acceleration was tepid even in the auto-stick 911. These notoriously finicky units were often swapped out by their owners in favor of traditional manual transmissions. A previous owner of my 1969 VW Karmann-Ghia had done the same thing, i.e., welded in a clutch cable tube, installed a manual transmission, and put in a three pedal cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmfspecb Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I think SOA doesn't love me anymore. I never get the surveys I hear about on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegGt2000 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Hummmm, The reason I purchased my subee was because it had a manual trany and was AWD... I pull mine behind our motorhome so an auto doesn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I would not have purchased my Legacy GT if it were not an MT. If there isn't a higher-performance Legacy out by '09, I'll probably be leaving the brand anyway, although thusfar I've been impressed with the reliability of my car, and generally satisfied with my purchase. In short, I like Subaru, and would hate to see them drop manual transmission offerings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TambourineMan Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I wish Subaru would make an AT optional (even if it had to be special ordered) for for their high performance models. I would like the power but to still be able to steer and drink my Dunkin' on my stop and go commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigInALegacy Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 My theory: it's easier to get road love in the Automatic! :dm: :dm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I wish Subaru would make an AT optional (even if it had to be special ordered) for for their high performance models. I would like the power but to still be able to steer and drink my Dunkin' on my stop and go commute. They're already holding back the best engines and now you want to make it even more complicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 They're already holding back the best engines and now you want to make it even more complicated? when you think about it, the current 5eat is joint with the nissan right? the g35 is just a hair more expensive than the gt. i see a pricing trend going on to keep things as low as it is now. does nissan even have a 6speed auto? if not, i would bet that when they do the legacy will also. with nissan raising power continually i suspect the tranny will be decent for stock much like the current 5 eat is. no one can blame subaru for supplying what they advertised. you throw an extra 100hp that isn't supposed to be there and see what happens. they have engineers and bean counters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 ^ "Jatco Transmissions" is a spin off of Nissan and provide trannies for numerous OEMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 ^ "Jatco Transmissions" is a spin off of Nissan and provide trannies for numerous OEMs. the ONLY think from nisaan with a 6 speed auto is some weird ass over seas taxi something or the other. i'd say...when nissan gets a 6 speed auto so will subaru. i will also say that with a broader powerband a 6 speed isn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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