specb LCA bushings

[whitetiger]

the revalving option is the only one id do if i was dead set on getting the bils.

[Underdog]

So you don't think its worth getting the chart? Don't you think it would be helpful for choosing out a spring? Or is it "close enough" since it's not a straight-up track/autox strut?

[whitetiger]

You can get it done if you want. It would certianly be good info for the board. Im sure it will be close enough.

[hammerhead]

it would be nice if the RB320's fit our cars. i had the tokico/pink set-up in my car. it was good for a DD and some spirited drive's. but, when autox at a PCA event , the car had 2 much body roll and understeer for me. i've since gone to BC Racing inverted coils. i am very happy with the autox end, but my ride is harsher. i do live in NYC and see some awefull roads. just mt 2 cents, i'm by no means a suspension guru.

[Underdog]

This is in another thread of mine in the maintenance section but I thought I'd cross-post it because we hit upon the RC kit here.

 

Okay, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this...

 

With the stock suspension and alignment I should have front camber of -15' (-0.25deg). My last alignment showed -0.2deg camber on both sides and 6.4deg/6.0deg caster (L/R respectively).

 

When I lower my car on Bilsteins and Swifts - all else being equal - should I expect an increase in static negative camber? If so, will I be able to reach an acceptable camber setting using the camber bolt on the strut? I would rather not get camber plates unless absolutely necessary.

 

Another concern I have is that the LCA is no longer in the "sweet spot" of it's camber curve, meaning that it will change camber in an undesirable manner when loaded in turns? I would imagine it would gain camber more quickly when loaded which would hurt turn-in and braking. Someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding something...

 

If that is the case, will the Whiteline roll-center kit be a good addition to my install? The limited literature I've seen indicates the kit is designed for "mildly lowered vehicles" which I would associate with Swifts. What I'm still trying to understand is whether the RC kit will change my static camber back towards the pre-lowered setting, or if it will only move the dynamic camber change back towards optimum.

 

The AVO caster bushing will also be going in so I can probably expect to see .5-1deg of additional caster.

[whitetiger]

The RC kit only affect dynamic measurements. when the car is sitting still. The alignment is what it is as measured. And the suspension arms move farther from the sweet spont. the alignment angles change more drastically. RC kit will keep the arms closer to the sweet spot to begin with so they dont more so far from center when the suspension is loaded or unloaded during manuvering.

[Underdog]

Cool so then to take advantage of the rest of the suspension work, it makes sense to keep the already disadvantaged McPherson Strut system in it's ideal geometry, especially at this price-point.

 

I'm going to suppose that the 1" drop of the Swifts will fall into realm of needing the RC correction. Does the rear mutli-link suffer from similar adverse dynamic effects due to lowering?

 

WT, in your experience, will I be able to keep reasonable alignment settings without camber plates or adjustable links?

[whitetiger]

Gernerally multilink and double wishbone, do a better job keeping the wheel in the proper place i wouldnt worry about dynamic changes with our rears as much as we should from our fronts. I go the rear lateral links only to adjust static camber for wide tire clearances. As for camber adjustments for the front, it all depends how low you go. as you lower the car, the front cambers in. After a certian point, you will not have enough adjustment to correct for it with out getting camber plates. I always think camber plates are worth it since i like having the ablity to adjust my settings better. You really wont be able to tell if you need more ajdustment range untill you get on a alignment rack.

[Underdog]

Okay, so roll-center kit yes and camber plates/adj. links maybe. I am only lowering about an inch so I'm gonna wing it. I just hope I don't have to drive with super dorifto camber for 2 weeks between the install and waiting for parts to get shipped.

[Rimfaxe]

subscribe- great discussion!

[GTTuner]

Super pro blue bushings FTW, I installed them on someone else's LGT and it really tightend up the steering with no perceptible effect on ride quality.

 

I positioned them for no caster change.

[mike85]

does any one know if the bushings in the specb LCA are stiffer than normal rubber bushings? i searched but couldn't find any thing. K.O.P. site says the bushings are stiffer.

 

thanks

 

Just got off the phone with Ryan of FredBeansParts:

 

Although Subaru parts computer has different parts numbers, the Spec B and Legacy GT Front LCA rear bushings appear to be exactly the same: same diameter, same appearance, exactly the same weight (Ryan weighed them on a scale) -- they apparently even have the exact same number stamped on them. (The Spec B ones are more expensive however!)

 

So I'm still looking for something in between the stock Legacy GT ones and the Fulcrum Superpro urethane ones.

 

(I find the Superpro bushings a bit too hard -- feel is great, but just a bit too "harsh" for my tastes. It's most noticeable over bigger bumps -- potholes for example can feel and sound particularly harsh, almost like a metal-on-metal crash where the OEMs would "soak up" potholes a lot more gently...)

 

(BTW, in addition to the Superpro LCA bushings, I'm running Bilstein HDs under stock Spec B tophats, with Swift springs and Swift swaybars on my Legacy GT Ltd Wagon...)

[spartan]

Look into the 08 sti bushings or the group n bushings that are listed the other LCA thread.

[mike85]

Look into the 08 sti bushings or the group n bushings that are listed the other LCA thread.

 

Yeah, thanks. I know the 08 STi front LCA's front bushings are interchangeable with Legacys, but aren't the rear ones (aka the squishy tennis ball-like ones) different? All the STi diagrams I've seen (in the online parts catalogs) show a totally different LCA design...

 

Rallispek has Group N bushings that supposedly fit, but when I talked to Dave there, he thought that the Group N ones are of pretty hard rubber, probably as hard as any of the Whiteline/Superpro urethane ones...

[ifbiker]

Group N bushings aren't as hard as poly bushings. They appear to be made from the same mold as the stock and STi bushings. I have seen all three and the markings are the same. I installed the Group N bushings in the summer and have been really pleased, they don't make any noise, increase steering feel and very minimal amount of NVH. It was one of those things I noticed when I first installed them but couldn't discern it now.

[Blue GT]

Yeah, thanks. I know the 08 STi front LCA's front bushings are interchangeable with Legacys, but aren't the rear ones (aka the squishy tennis ball-like ones) different? All the STi diagrams I've seen (in the online parts catalogs) show a totally different LCA design...

 

Rallispek has Group N bushings that supposedly fit, but when I talked to Dave there, he thought that the Group N ones are of pretty hard rubber, probably as hard as any of the Whiteline/Superpro urethane ones...

 

I have the 08sti Front LCA rear bushings on my 05 LGT and they fit, they are stiffer than stock bushings but not as still as the hard rubber group N bushings or poly ones.

And as the above poster stated, hard rubber group N bushings aren't going to be jarring like the poly ones.

Stiffness scale: Poly>Group N> 08STI> spec B/Stock And my info on the spec b/ stock is not first hand, just what I read above. However i can tell you there is a difference in the STI bushing and the stock LGT, smaller holes = stiffer design.

[ifbiker]

Mike85 The "tennis ball" bushing from the 08/09 STi is the same bushing dimensionally as the LGT bushing. The rubber is more stiff on the STi and the Group N is stiffer. I installed the Group N on my car because rubber won't make noise and will fit because the same mold was used on all three versions.

[mike85]

Mike85 The "tennis ball" bushing from the 08/09 STi is the same bushing dimensionally as the LGT bushing. The rubber is more stiff on the STi and the Group N is stiffer. I installed the Group N on my car because rubber won't make noise and will fit because the same mold was used on all three versions.

 

ifbiker,

 

Found your past posts -- Excellent info, much appreciated!.

 

Just to clarify, in your front LCAs you're running the Group N rear bushings with 08 STi front bushings, correct?

 

But you're saying that the rear bushings ("tennis balls") from an 08/09 STi will also fit? (If so, how come you chose Group N instead of 08 STi ones for the rear? Did you want harder bushings in rear for some reason? 'Cuz the Group Ns are more expensive aren't they? Just curious...)

 

If my understanding of all you've written is correct, I think I should get 08 STi versions of both front and rear FR LCA bushings -- then they'll be harder than OEM but not as hard as Group N or poly, front and rear will match in hardness, and they'll be cheaper than going all Group N... (You don't happen to have part #s for the 08 STi bushings do you?)

[ifbiker]

08/09 STi "tennis ball" bushings will also fit. I used Group N for two reasons. It seemed to me the "tennis ball" bushing allows for more LCA movement than the front bushing so I went with a highest durometer rubber option. I also didn't want to replace the bushing a second time so I wanted to put the most "durable" option in. I would have installed Group N front LCA bushings but price was the constraint and the STi bushings are solid compared the the stock LGT bushings which have cut outs in them. The "tennis ball" STi part number is 20204AG011 and the front bushing is either 20204AG030 or I see there is an alternate number 20204AG040.

[mike85]

Ordered the 08/09 STI front & rear bushings from Fred Bean's (20204AG011 & 20204AG030) -- they arrived a couple days ago.

 

Ryan at Fred Bean's had warned me that the STI rear bushings looked identical to the stock Legacy GT ones -- he wasn't kidding!

 

I'm hoping that the STI ones use a harder durometer (stiffer) rubber but it's hard to tell (they don't feel that different to my uncalibrated fingernails...). Appearance-wise, I can see no difference at all -- the rubber is the same shape, cut-outs and all.

 

There is definitely a difference in price though: $26.51ea for the STI versions vs. $8.26ea for the stock ones. I'm hoping that I didn't just pay 3x as much for the identical parts... (OTOH, they're still cheaper than the SuperPro urethanes and the Group N ones sold by Rallispec [~$55 each].)

 

Not sure when I'll have chance to install these, but I'll post my impressions after I've had a chance to drive around on 'em.

 

Anyone interested in the SuperPro urethane ones I'll be taking off?

[ifbiker]

The bushings come out of the same mold which means they fit as Subaru intended. The Group N bushings are subtly different, and there is a difference between STi and LGT too but it is hard to tell. Did you notcie how the front bushings are completely filled with rubber? LGT has cut outs in them allowing for more compliance.

[N.sane]

Interested in hearing the results, mike85.

[spartan]

Here is a conversation that I had with Fred Beans earlier today:

 

Ryan Tomol: Hello, How can I help you?

You: I am looking to get a price on the rear bushing of the front lower control arm for an 08+ sti.

Ryan Tomol: oem?

You: Yes please.

Ryan Tomol: $27 per bushing sir

You: Great, could you provide me with the part number so that I may order a pair?

Ryan Tomol: 20204ag011

You: Thanks, I have a few questions. These will be going on an 05 Legacy GT. I have read a few posts on legacygt.com stating that the 08+ sti bushing is the same bushing as comes stock on the LGT, but it is of a stiffer material. Do you see any truth to this, looking at the application of this part number I find it hard to believe.

Ryan Tomol: I checked this out for a customer of mine out in Cali actually as he wanted to upgrade to something a bit stiffer, but not go all out with ones like the whiteline

Ryan Tomol: the mold # was identical on both

Ryan Tomol: I saw no difference in weight, or feel of them at least with grip and weighing them on our scale and trying to manually squeeze them

Ryan Tomol: to me it looked like the same part # wrapped in a different packaged stamped with a new part #

Ryan Tomol: based on my observation at least, I saw nothing differentiating them other than the part # on the package

 

Looking at the applications of that part nubmer they included the forester, n/a impreza, wrx, outback, spec b and the sti.

[AZP Installs]

I have the AVO ones in my car, if I were doing it again I'd get the Whiteline ones or the Whiteline Racing ones. I may swap them out at some point anyway.

 

-mike

[N.sane]

^Something wrong with the AVO?