DukeTrout Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 ^ As I said, the USDM Spec.B has the same set up as the JDM LGT. The USDM LGT is something different. You have to take into consideration the markets in which the respective products are offered. North Americans put far more miles on their cars than Japanese. Less kidney punching FTW from SOA's perspective I'm guessing. If you are looking to reporduce the JDM Spec.B set up, why not just order the OEM parts? Not exactly. The JDM LGT still has stiffer/lower springs than the USDM spec.B. That is very apparent from the stock ride height for both vehicles. Since the USDM spec.B has a heavier tranny and rear drive train, it should sit lower on the same springs. Instead, it sits at least a half inch higher, = different springs. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks for the write up. Valuable info for many of us. Yet somehow you've managed to make my decision even harder! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I plan on starting with HD's and swifts with a JDM RSB only. If that is too stiff I will go to HD's/Pinks and reevaluate the swaybar(s). There's nothing magic about springs so I think it makes sense to choose a decent strut and then experiment with springs until you find a good match. If the swifts and pinks are too stiff then maybe I'll go to stock spec.B springs, the extra stiffness of the HD's may make the ride a little rougher over broken pavement but it should feel a lot more planted in the straights and sweepers. I just wouldn't want the stock ride height... The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickdrift Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 There's nothing magic about springs so I think it makes sense to choose a decent strut and then experiment with springs until you find a good match. Ding Ding Ding... Suspension damping is no mystery. My true concerns for choosing a spring for the specB I'm getting soon are a drop that will be aesthetically pleasing to my eye (with equal or less gap at the front) and that the new springs not be too stiff for the factory specB dampers to perform properly. It seems the general consensus has been that the pinks are perfect for specB struts, especially being designed specifically for these struts. My only problem with the pinks is the ridiculous price. I feel that they tend to be about $200 overpriced. The Swifts seem to have only a 50% approval rate around this forum, some people saying the specB struts are a bit underdamped. Perhaps this is because of their linear rate, as opposed to that of the progressive rate pinks which have near identical spring rates. I was excited to hear about the RalliTek’s, but because they were designed around the LGT struts, as I feared, they make Bilstein equipped cars sit higher in the front, not want I want asthetically. I’m *pretty* sure I have searched and have not found specs on the cobbs. But they’re probably also designed around the LGT’s and would not look the way I wanted either. Right now it still seems the swifts may be the route I go. Everyones input here has been really informative and thanks again to the OP for his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsimon Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 If I recall correctly, RalliTEK actually had their springs built based on the spring rates of the pinks. Both the RalliTEK and the pink springs are progressive in the back, linear in front. As far as the specific rates selected, Sean and Co. will have to provide that info. -DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallitek.com Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Here is a slideshow showing both cars. (SpecB and LGT). (Click on pic to see comments): [ame=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralliteksubaru/sets/72157603597936697/show/]RalliTEK Springs Legacy Sdn@@AMEPARAM@@offsite=true&lang=en-us&page_show_url=%2Fphotos%2Fralliteksubaru%2Fsets%2F72157603597936697%2Fshow%2F&page_show_back_url=%2Fphotos%2Fralliteksubaru%2Fsets%2F72157603597936697%2F&set_id=72157603597936697&jump_to=@@AMEPARAM@@en-us@@AMEPARAM@@%2Fphotos%2Fralliteksubaru%2Fsets%2F72157603597936697%2Fshow%2F&page_show_back_url=%2Fphotos%2Fralliteksubaru%2Fsets%2F72157603597936697%2F&set_id=72157603597936697&jump_to=[/ame] Sean S. www.RalliTEK.com http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w151/RalliTEK/Ad_Banner_05_sprgs.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 The Swifts seem to have only a 50% approval rate around this forum, some people saying the specB struts are a bit underdamped. This is one of the reasons I wanted to go with the HD's. Supposedly valved to be stiffer (I've heard 20% but I think that is a meaningless number) and Racecomp says that they're a good match to either spring. Getting all 4 struts for under $500 shipped... that helped my decision as well. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsimon Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 ^ What a bargain!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsimon Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Here is a slideshow showing both cars. Looks good Sean. Paul's car looks much nicer with that drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 ^ I was driving around in snow that at the bottom of my OEM Spec. on New Year's eve testing the Contiextremes almost to their max on some hills and destroying my gas mileage on my way to the donut shop. FWIW & IMHO, the Legacy comes from rallying and looks "less nice" when one of its essential capabilities is compromised. I'd get a BMW or a G37 coupe if I wanted a strictly road/fair weather car. Heck, even a Miata. Then there's the issue of the suspension angles also being compromised when lowered. Everyone here knows there's a lot more that goes into an OEM design (especially a premium one as found on the OEM Spec.B) than simply slapping on a set or two of springs. Okay, try a different set or three of dampers too. While you're at it, why not try a brace of sways? Bushings, anyone? Camber? Castor? I don't want to be a stick in the mud but when you mess with one component, especially on the Spec.B, the designed OEM orchestration and harmony becomes unbalanced and perhaps even discordant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas569 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Ya, I know. I appreciate how much expertise and experience it takes to make a car yet alone a high performance one. "To each his own" but someone has to stick up for the OEM engineers who crafted the Spec.B suspension which is one of the very best GT set ups available. Why should someone stick up for the Subaru design team? Because they're good. Very good. Messing around with springs and dampers on a LGT has more potential than the Spec.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteGDB Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I guess I'm sticking up for Subaru Techinca international engineers then, because I'm riding on pinks:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickdrift Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The last time it snowed where I'm at was in 1999. It wasn’t a whole lot. People were making dirty snowmen. Vimy, I understand your appreciation of the fine engineering accomplishments made with the design of our cars. However, I would argue what we get here in the states is a compromised version of that. This is the scenario I imagine; the original version of our cars appeared in the Japanese market. When they thought it could make them more money by marketing it here they modified the original designs by giving us softer struts, softer and taller springs for our crappy American roads. My guess is this same thinking is also why we have the awesome switch on top of the steering column that the carwash keep switching on ever time I go there, among other less aesthetically pleasing changes. One could probably argue that by installing the pinks and Bilsteins on their cars that they are returning their cars to the way the engineers originally intended. As far as what looks good and what doesn’t, obviously that’s completely subjective. I prefer only to lessen the gap between the top of the tire and the fender lip. I don’t like the look of slammed cars, I think they look too “kiddie”. I live in a predominately “hick” town and I see trucks with wayyy too big tires all the time, I am tired of it. As a result, the appearance of a lifted Legacy (read: stock height) just doesn’t appeal to me either. I guess people will just continue to have there own tastes and opinions… oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I am thankful for the engineering/scientific process. It allows us to form an educated hypothesis, implement, evaluate and improve. While there are many variables, there is nothing magical about suspension design. The compromise of an OEM setup might not be what every person wants and it is well within the intelligent individuals capability to modify a suspension to their satisfaction. I don't think many here would condone just slapping parts on a car and it's bothersome to see it referred to in that way. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Ya, I know. I appreciate how much expertise and experience it takes to make a car yet alone a high performance one. "To each his own" but someone has to stick up for the OEM engineers who crafted the Spec.B suspension which is one of the very best GT set ups available. Why should someone stick up for the Subaru design team? Because they're good. Very good. Messing around with springs and dampers on a LGT has more potential than the Spec.B. I used to live in the Midwest. In Chicago, with the potholes, I'd probably be looking for more cushiony shocks than stock! But in Oregon, we don't really have much in the way of potholes. We have ruts instead (caused by people running studded tires from November - April; me included) which ask for a more planted suspension, not a looser one. So we have good roads, overall, and lots of rain. AWD is still a very valuable asset here, and many more twisty roads to put it to good use on. I'm an engineer, and I used to work in design. I agree that Subaru's engineers have done great work with these cars. However, one important aspect that they have to deal with is expense. They don't work for Lexus. So often what is the best component to use for the design is compromised by the bean-counters, vis-a-vie the departure of aluminum hoods on Legacies. Would you criticize someone with a steel hood for getting a lighter hood because it might mess up the dynamics of the car, and because it wasn't what the engineers intended? Of course not. The engineers have to live within the constraints of what is mass-produceable and cost-effective. If an individual owner wants to upgrade components beyond what Subaru (especially SOA) was willing to spend on, why criticize it? PS - Does SOA even employ any engineers to think about the changes they make from the JDM models? Maybe for the safety and emissions compliance stuff, but it's more likely that the suspension differences for our vehicles are decided by accountants and lawyers, not engineers. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 ^ The thing is the the Spec.B spanked its peers in that comparison test. Chaulk one up for the engineers. Was it a good business (accounting) decision? Only time will tell. A hood is sprung weight. Suspension is unsprung. Huge difference. Regardless, N. Americans put big miles on their cars and US drivers rack up huge freeway miles and spend most of their time there. I am constantly impressed by how well the OEM Spec.B suspension handles everything that is thrown at it. Pretty damn difficult to get a great handling car on twisties and backroads that also gives an excellent ride on the freeway. Subaru has come as close as anyone ever has, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsimon Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Threw a bigger RSB on the 06 GT today. The GT had more pronounced understeer after installing the lowering springs (which Sean expected due to the lower suspension lessening the actuation of the sway). Went from a JDM RSB (hollow) to a RalliTEK RSB (solid). Brought the car's handling back to a much more neutral attitude. All is well in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 How long did it take for your rallitek springs in front to settle down....as in mine look just as high but the backs looked slightly dropped 20 minutes after install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovesnh1 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Sirsimon, Thanks for the great review of the RalliTEK springs on the stock LGT in the beginning of this thread. I have a stock 08 LGT 5MT, and have been waffling on which spring to purchase for my first suspension modification. The contenders are the RalliTEK springs, and the Eibach Pro Kit. I will also be grabbing up a Whiteline roll-center and bump steer kit in addition to the spring kit that I choose. Through numerous search's it seems that everyone who has put the RalliTEK product on their LGT or LGT spec b seems to really like the mix of performance and comfort of the RalliTEK product. However the Service Manager at my subie dealership recommended the Eibach Pro Kit over the RalliTEK, Cobb, STi Pinks, Tein, iON, or Swift offerings. I don't think he's biased as I will be purchasing the springs in the aftermarket instead of thru the him. After hearing his recommendation I have searched a ton on the board with little luck finding good info on the Pro Kit with the exception of one user who has it, and those were pics. Can you or anyone offer an opinion about how the RalliTEK springs are working now that they have been on the stock LGT for a while? Has anyone heard anything good or bad about the Eibach pro kit used on our cars? Thanks for all the great info, have a good one! Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawlwawl06 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 ^+1 thanks a bunch for the review! You have convinced me to go with the Rallitek springs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Anybody with the rallitek springs feel like the steering is horrible afterwards? I feel like there is quite a bit more slack (as in super lazy response) and a little less feel...or maybe now I am just noticing it. Guess I should check to see if the front tires are a little down on PSI too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Did you get an alignment yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I did, but it pulls to the right due to the toe-in all messed up on the drivers side rear tire (seized lower link). I am going to replace that, have that last tire aligned and see if it helps any. Might be time for AVO steering bushings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootyc Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Very helpful review! You convinced me to go with Ralitek.. ride height looks perfect to me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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