Thinking of trading in my LGT for a Mazdaspeed 3

[lawl]

you're worried about repairs and reliability and you recommend GERMAN car?

 

coworker's 2007 volkswagen jetta. brand new with 5k miles. sunvisor lights, homelink wouldnt work from factory. sunvisor plopped down onto his lap while driving. hood pinched the windshield cleaner nozzle hose open so when he tried to clean his windshield he cleaned the engine bay instead.

 

 

"a real car" like BMW is going to rape your wallet on out of warranty repairs. mercedes is bottom of the barrel in terms of reliability, along with VW. driving feel i will give it to the germans but it seems servicing is important to you so...

[Throttlejockey]

I think you should buy this car. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class-SL65-AMG-David-Ortizs-Toy_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6338QQihZ020QQitemZ300142531486QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Meltdown07]

My girlfriend has a Mazda 3 w/ leather. I can confirm the poor leather quality. The car also is loud and of an overall cheaper quality than a Legacy.

 

I dont understand why people like the MS3. Its kind of ugly, has torque issues, FWD instead of AWD, its kind of ugly, bad leather, kind of a chick car, unrefined, kind of ugly, and I think I forgot to mention- kind of ugly.

 

Reliability is good though, as is resale. Just my opinion, to each his own.

[NOTATURBO]

My girlfriend has a Mazda 3 w/ leather. I can confirm the poor leather quality. The car also is loud and of an overall cheaper quality than a Legacy.

 

I dont understand why people like the MS3. Its kind of ugly, has torque issues, FWD instead of AWD, its kind of ugly, bad leather, kind of a chick car, unrefined, kind of ugly, and I think I forgot to mention- kind of ugly.

 

Reliability is good though, as is resale. Just my opinion, to each his own.

 

 

so you're saying that it's kinda ugly??

[Zed 2.0]

 

I drive the 05 legacy GT and have about 35,000 on it and think about selling it and getting a German car. I had many little problems with my Legacy so far and every time I bring it to the dealer, I have to bring it back another two times so the problem gets somewhat fixed.

 

 

Enjoy VW ownership if you don't like little problems with your Legacy. VAG products are the king of annoying, small and expensive problems. Trust me, I owned an A4 for 7 years and got so incredibly sick of putting up with its stupid glitches and unreliability.

[BOXRPWR]

Get the Speed3.....you'll love it! I do.

 

Incorrect info: I didn't have any "troubles" with my Speed3. The left rear shock blew out when I hit a mile-deep pothole. So it gave me a good reason to spend all of $300 bucks to get a set of Koni Yellow adjustable rear shocks.

 

Incorrect info: I didn't track my Speed3 once. I've tracked it 3 TIMES since January and I'm heading back to Willowsprings on Labor Day weekend!

 

Incorrect info: "The Speed3 has lots of torque steer." This is the first complaint that everyone who has NEVER DRIVEN the Speed3 mentions. Under 98% of conditions, including very spirited driving, the electronic and mechanical (equal-length half shafts) features tames the torque-steer. If you absolutely must insist on forcing the Speed3 to demonstrate torque steer, the rev it drop the clutch, spin the front tires and enjoy the excitement of not knowing for sure which way it wants to go. But that's it.

 

 

more later.....got to get ready for work!

[Bob N]

It seems lot's of people are convinced torque steer is a big issue but I've been reading and it seems that is not the case for most reviewer's. Look at this comment:

And after just five minutes in the car, any doubts we had about dubious traction levels under power or torque-steer problems dissolved instantly. As a top priority on the R&D team's list, engineers have not only reinforced the driveshaft, but have also fitted a specially tuned torque-sensing super limited-slip differential. And when called on to control overzealous right boots, Mazda's Dynamic Stability Control intervenes without interfering in the fun.

 

 

[jduk]

I recomend paying the extra money and getting a real car like BMW or even the Volkswagen which is one of the most basic and cheapest cars in Germany but still better than any Japanese or American car.

 

 

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2007130.pdf

[rjundi]

How does anyone know anything about the reliability of the MS3?

 

It has barely been out so their really is no data.

 

Sounds like bum luck on your LGT although consumer reports shows average for 05 LGT and much better than average for newer years. Ours has been more reliable than both our previous Civic's in their first 36k waranty period. One headlight went out so far(they nicely replace pair) on our LGT over two years, and yeah they changed the wipers

[digitator]

Don't get me wrong; I don't think the torque steer is a deal-killer,by any means, and boxrpwr is right in that under normal driving conditions, you won't even notice it 98% of the time.

 

But I have driven a Speed3, and did notice it right away without dumping the clutch or driving like an idiot. Now, I was using a N/A Mazda3 as my comparison (which, like any FWD vehicle, will exhibit the same effect if you push it hard enough), so perhaps it isn't that the Speed3 is prone to torque steer, but that the driver has so much more power at his bidding, all directed at the front wheels.

 

If you're coming from an LGT, and really considering the Speed3, then find a dealer that will let you drive one. It will be a completely different feel from an AWD Legacy, but not neccessarily a bad one.

 

One note: if you live in an area that gets snow or ice, make sure you keep that in consideration. The stock tires on the Mazda3 (Goodyear RSA) and Speed3 (Bridgetone RE050) are horrible in winter conditions; I thought I was riding on ice skates that first winter.

[Morbidgorilla]

If you want a fast turbo 5 door why not just wait for the 08 WRX?

[PhilT]

If you want a fast turbo 5 door why not just wait for the 08 WRX?

 

:lol:

[rao]

If you like the MazdaSpeed 3 or a Kia Rio or whatever, buy it

[rabydanimal]

I don't care what you do to a FWD car. If it has over ~200 hp, it will torque steer. The more power, the worse it is. All the fancy differentials in the world can't get rid of it. I almost drove my buddy's Jetta 1.8t off the road when I went around a corner and goosed it.

 

FWD FTL.

[rudy]

The whole torque steer thing, the car will be hard to control....etc. is nonsense, IMO. I had a 300whp GTI (APR Stage III kit on race gas) w/ a quaife LSD and have nooooo problems at all on the drag strip, road course, or daily driving. You just modulate first then hammer it in 2nd. Once you're rolling a bit things are fine, and the wheel certainly wasn't some beast that was difficult to control.

 

The MS3 should be at least as good, if not better than my GTI. It has equal length driveshafts I believe, factory LSD, and they dialed the suspension geometry from the factory to account for the power.

 

Lots of power + FWD = beast on highway rolls. On 93 octane (~250whp) I could pull on an E46 M3 on a 40-140 roll thanks to a lighter weight car and less drivetrain loss. Probably with the MS3 given the weight, if basic mods (ECU and maybe a downpipe) can get you to about 270whp you should be able to see similar results. Not bad for a low 20k car that also has the utility of a wagon.

[a4b5]

I actually just sold my MS3 in favor of my '08 LGT. I had the MS3 for 4 months before deciding that it wasn't the car for me. Here's snippet of my take on the MS3 that I posted at thetruthaboutcars.com:

 

I purchased a Speed3 Grand Touring in March of this year. I truly thought I had found the ideal car for my needs: practical, somewhat economical, affordable, fun to drive, and not German (ask me about my 2004 Audi $4 … oops, I mean S4). After an initial month or so of pure bliss, reality started to hit. While fast and fun to drive, this is a hard car to live with on a day to day basis. Combine the stiff suspension with the 18″ wheels, a short wheel base and the pot holes that are everywhere in Minnesota and you get a punishing ride.

 

Given all of the above, it also becomes evident that the car is based on an economy platform with the rattles, tinny thunking noises, etc. Did I expect that? Somewhat. But it has proven to be a difficult adjustment coming from the Audi / VW world.

 

I know you can’t get it all at the price point that they have placed this car, and they’ve done a good job of maximizing the performance to dollar ratio, so I have to give Mazda credit for that. But it comes at the cost of just about everything else.

 

My wife probably put it best when describing her take on the car: “I feel like I’m driving my son’s car”. Keep in mind that my son is 3 years old…

 

Torque steer = non-existent. People that claim the car has it haven't driven one. They truly did get that under control.

 

The LGT certainly isn't perfect either, but it does have a better balance of being fun to drive but still being livable on a day to day basis.

[tommypenguin]

I think torque steer is overrated. I've had to deal with it, and both of my last 2 cars(prelude w/lsd and accord v6) handled very well in the mountains, I had both heavily modded. Torque steer didn't bother me enough on either car I would complain about it, and it normally only occurred when under WOT shifting in to first or second gear. On the highway or from a roll, never had a torque steer issue and I'm guessing you wouldn't with this car either especially with the technology they put to control the torque steer. I know this car handles well, my buddy has one, very fun car to drive. But it is a stiff ride even stock and i live in colorado where the potholes are fierce. He's bent a couple wheels in the last winter, and had to replace two blown out struts. Besides that, no issues with the car, but if you live in an area that has rough roads, you may want to reconsider. There's nothing like driving a stiff ride on a roughed up road on your daily commute to make you go crazy.

[a4b5]

There's nothing like driving a stiff ride on a roughed up road on your daily commute to make you go crazy.

Exactly why I only lasted 4 months in the car.

[jwho]

I agree that torque steer is overrated.

 

Sounds like you want to change cars and get the MS3, which is ok! I recently just traded in a perfect 2003 Acura RSX-S with really no issues for a Spec B because I got a little tired of the small size and was bored of it. I think the MS3 is a great car. I'm loving my Spec B so far and no, I don't expect it to be as trouble free as my Acura being that this is a turbo motor. My wife has an RDX which is also turbo w/ AWD so I'll be curious to see which car holds up better.

 

Anyways, I always get a kick out of reading Acura, Suby, and other what I would call "reliable" brand folks complaining about reliability and how this and that is failing and breaking... I just think to myself, well, at least you never had two VW passats that both left you stranded multiple times as well as shutting down completely while you're drive down a parking garage ramp and on the road at 50mph!!! I would love "limp" mode in these scenarios instead of "dead" mode.

[MannyLegacy]

Hey Glad to see that you decided to stay with the Leggy.

 

 

Now if you could only convince BOXRPWR (Kevin) to come back from his MS3.

[fishbone]

I drive the 05 legacy GT and have about 35,000 on it and think about selling it and getting a German car.

Then import it from Europe, don't buy one from here that's been built in the US or Mexico. Otherwise, well, I won't repeat ad-nauseam all the reliability issues quoted here.

recomend paying the extra money and getting a real car like BMW or even the Volkswagen which is one of the most basic and cheapest cars in Germany but still better than any Japanese or American car.

Think again. A friend of mine from back in Romania (that's Europe, for the world map challenged) works at a VW dealership. While he told me that the Euro-built v-dubs are more reliable, they don't come close to the japs. Almost no German brand does, for that matter. He confirms that in recent years the German built quality has taken a backseat to profits. Just now they're starting to address the issue.

 

BTW, he drives a Skoda Octavia. Nice car.

 

I don't care what you do to a FWD car. If it has over ~200 hp, it will torque steer. The more power, the worse it is. All the fancy differentials in the world can't get rid of it. I almost drove my buddy's Jetta 1.8t off the road when I went around a corner and goosed it.

FWD FTL.

Although I agree that FWD FTL, the new Altima, for example, has no torque steer to be noticed, although the V6 has 270hp on the front wheels. The previous gens, holy crap, it was as if they had an army of monkeys under the hood tugging at the damn steering wheel cover. I should know, I've owned once. So torque steer can be minimized by good design, which doesn't always mean doing it artifficially with electronics. So torque steer is not such a definite issue with lots of power on the front wheels. Traction? Now that's a whole 'nother issue

[AKLGT]

i took a MS3 out for a 36 mile test drive up and down winding hills and roads. you feel very little torque steer, but the feel of the car is quite different than our AWD turbo's. you feel like you are pulling the car along vs pushing the car. it was fun and enjoyable no doubt, and for the price and what you get, it's a great deal as far as bang for buck. would i recommend one over a wrx IF you did now want or need AWD? yes. however, having said that, the entire time i test drove the car, i was thinking what if this had awd and 300+ hp??? STI HATCH here i come!!!

 

would i trade my LGT in for a MS3 though, no way! it was fun, but completely different car all together.

[hogmeat]

I had a modded GTP with about 320HP - all to the fronts. S/C too - so instant boost and full power. Even though my LGT has less "power" the thrill of having full time continuous AWD when you really need it most (a hard launch!!) and it makes me never ever even look back.

Torque steer wasn't super bad on that, but it was there. for me, traction was a killer. I mean, squeel and scream the tires all you want - your still not going anywhere!

[NOTATURBO]

I think torque steer is overrated. I've had to deal with it, and both of my last 2 cars(prelude w/lsd and accord v6) handled very well in the mountains, I had both heavily modded. Torque steer didn't bother me enough on either car I would complain about it, and it normally only occurred when under WOT shifting in to first or second gear. On the highway or from a roll, never had a torque steer issue and I'm guessing you wouldn't with this car either especially with the technology they put to control the torque steer. I know this car handles well, my buddy has one, very fun car to drive. But it is a stiff ride even stock and i live in colorado where the potholes are fierce. He's bent a couple wheels in the last winter, and had to replace two blown out struts. Besides that, no issues with the car, but if you live in an area that has rough roads, you may want to reconsider. There's nothing like driving a stiff ride on a roughed up road on your daily commute to make you go crazy.

 

you had no torque steer on your lude and accord v6 because neither car had torque to begin with

[Guest JessterCPA]

at least you never had two VW passats that both left you stranded multiple times as well as shutting down completely while you're drive down a parking garage ramp and on the road at 50mph!!!

 

VW FTL. My 2001 Jetta left me stranded in a parking garage on vacation. Nothing like trying to get your car flatbedded to the local dealer at 8pm while your dinner reservations at the town's best restaurant with the wife go wasted.