Cooling Fan Relay Issue now a recall campaign

[meier motor sports]

why would i be joking? i would asume if the relay could damage one part of the ecm why could it not damage other areas? but thanks for the answer rob

[lawl]

I took it in for service

 

they did the relay only, despite my request that the ecm be ordered.

 

it's a tad quieter but still noisier than i think it should be.

 

i did a cold startup (it sat for a night) and immediately opened the hood. the driver side radiator fan is on and stays on forever, but the passenger side is not on during the cold startup.

 

they said ECM didnt need to be replaced the first time. Are they right? I bought the car used so i dont know what it should sound like.

 

basically i need to know if the ECM needs to be replaced now.

[meier motor sports]

if the fan stays on with the engine off then you have an issue. make sure your hvac is off. noise fans are not part of the recall

[Kingfisher]

I had a rim crack (3/4 of the way around) on me for no reason going down the highway on Friday so I dropped the car off for that and the relay problem on Saturday morning and they immediately put me in a rental. They told me it would be 3 weeks atleast. There was another LGT ahead of mine at the dealer that's been there several weeks already. The rental is a total piece, so I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if they'll put me in some kind of loaner like a Forrester or something. I'm not picky, just give me something with a Subaru badge, because the rental a Subaru is not. I'm hoping they're wrong, but their estimates right now, appear to be correct.

[eb50]

what did u hit that make ur rim crack? ive never heard of that

[Kingfisher]

what did u hit that make ur rim crack? ive never heard of that

 

I drove it down the highway. Seriously. The wife and I were just cruising down the highway and luckily we were slowing down to exit and BAM! I thought I had a blowout so I pulled off the road to change the tire only to discover that the rim had cracked. We didn't hit anything, there was nothing in the road or anything, it just went. We even turned around and went back once we had the spare on and ran the route again to make sure there wasn't something there and the road was totally clear.

 

Now SOA is trying to balk and say I hit something when the tire and rim are basically fine, it's not bent on one side or anything. It has the crack on the inside race, and two little one inch scuffs on the inside rim where I'm guessing it drug something on the undercarriage as the wheel crumpled. The tire appeared to be fine, not a mark on it.

 

It looks almost like the crack in this thread, only the crack doesn't veer towards the inside of the wheel well, it pretty much stays towards the far inside of the rim up against the spokes. That and my rim doesn't have the bent lip... because I didn't hit anything.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23642

[croll326]

ECM's ARE ON BACK ORDER!!! WTF?!

[croll326]

ECM on back order. Does that mean SOA will pay for a rental for more than one day?

[lawl]

ECM on back order. Does that mean SOA will pay for a rental for more than one day?

 

i brought it in yesterday. They ordered it today and they said the part will get there on monday.

 

although I waived the need for rental (for friday) because i have the daily driver already.

 

I was hoping to get compensated in other ways but no dice.

[Kingfisher]

In my case, they TOLD me to get a rental. "We've got an account with Enterprise", no questions. They told me the ECM would be 3 weeks. Then he calls today and said it was in transit and would probably arrive today, so apparently they're not backed up as far as they had previously thought. The rim should be arriving around the same time. Who is going to pay for the rim when it gets here is still up for debate, or atleast they think it's still up for debate.

[bemani]

Anyone got reimbursed by Subaru for fixing it out of warranty yet?

I'm going to go buy the relay and see if Subaru will pay for it. Dealer wants me to leave the car the whole day when the tech can swap the relay under 5 minutes. Wouldn't believe me when I say I don't need the ECU checked. Why would I lie about something like that on my own car

[Fat Charlie]

It's not about swapping the relay. The labor op has two steps- 1 is to swap the relay and 2 is to check that the fan circuit on the ECM is operating properly. If they only do it halfway, the recall hasn't been performed. If you buy your own relay after the recall came out, there's no way in hell you're going to get reimbursed for it and the recall will still have to be performed.

[bemani]

I know, but, I already checked the ECU myself. Cold start, no fan.

If they claim that the recall is done by only changing the relay w/ my consent, I don't see what the problem is. If my ECU turned out to be fried, I'm the one that's screwed, as I missed my chance to get it replaced.

 

Anyway, just swapped the relay and tested it. Took like 5 minutes. Saved myself a lot of driving and waiting.

[Kingfisher]

I got some clarification on the ECU swap from my dealer today. I went to pick my car up (which was there all week) and the black LGT which has been there for almost 3 weeks was still there. Apparently my LGT because of the build date or whatever, takes a different ECU revision than the black on they had there. His is on backorder, mine is not.

 

The rim saga continues. I needed the car back and SOA was still stonewalling so I paid for the replacement. Meanwhile the original is in the garage and I should be posting pictures some time tomorrow. The discussion with SOA is ongoing and is far from over. I talked to their customer service line today, then they followed up with the dealer. I know what the dealer told them (because I talked to them when I picked up the car). The dealer told them they'd never seen anything like it, and were dumbfounded. I'm hoping that works in my favor.

[Tuned200]

my ecm came in in less than a week

[Vimy101]

I got some clarification on the ECU swap from my dealer today. I went to pick my car up (which was there all week) and the black LGT which has been there for almost 3 weeks was still there. Apparently my LGT because of the build date or whatever, takes a different ECU revision than the black on they had there. His is on backorder, mine is not.

 

Hmmm.... so there are differences between various LGT ECUs.

[Opie]

I know, but, I already checked the ECU myself. Cold start, no fan.

If they claim that the recall is done by only changing the relay w/ my consent, I don't see what the problem is. If my ECU turned out to be fried, I'm the one that's screwed, as I missed my chance to get it replaced.

 

Anyway, just swapped the relay and tested it. Took like 5 minutes. Saved myself a lot of driving and waiting.

 

Another thing to consider is that you will pay retail for the relay, Subaru pays a predetermined price. Regardless of what you pay for the relay, Subaru will only reimburse you the price they predetermined.

[Fat Charlie]

Hmmm.... so there are differences between various LGT ECUs.

 

It's not a spec thing, it's a model year and whether you've got an OB or Legacy thing:

Model

scription

Number

2005MY Outback 2.5L M/T Turbo

ECM

22611AJ65E

2005MY Legacy Sedan / Wagon 2.5L M/T Turbo

ECM

22611AJ17E

2006MY Outback 2.5L M/T Turbo

ECM

22611AK47B

2006MY Legacy Wagon 2.5L M/T Turbo

ECM

22611AK45B

[SubiGT]

It's not a spec thing, it's a model year and whether you've got an OB or Legacy thing:

Just curious, and hopefully won't be flamed, but why the difference between Legacy and OB ECU's?

 

Also, you list an 06 Legacy turbo mt wagon..........

[Fat Charlie]

I get that question a lot. I just shrug and say they're different part numbers for different applications. Maybe some tuner might know how they're different. Anyone?

 

Mmmmmm... Turbo MT wagons.

[CarlJNgmail.com]

So update on my Outback's relay problem that started 3 weeks ago:

 

This is a bit ranty so I'll bulletize it:

Bear with me, this is a bit long...

 

1) 3 weeks ago, driver side fan starts running, not all the time but randomly. Sometimes it would come on when the engine was cold, sometimes not, just most certainly working incorrect. Also somewhere in here the ACC started not blowing properly. Like I would set it to 71, then it would barely blow and I'd be sweating. Then I would shut the car off and immediately restart it, and the fans would rush to max.

 

2) Dealer orders relay and computer under impression that the fan was on all the time.

 

3) Take vehicle to dealer last friday and have the relay replaced, they start the vehicle, pull it out, wash it, give me the keys and say that the only needed to replace the relay. ACC problem not addressed. So I drive the vehicle down the road about 3 miles, fan back on, and won't quit running. Turn around, go back to dealer and service manager who was good up to this point with me says verbatim what the TSB states. He was pretty much a robot repeating the same thing over and over again as I try to tell him the problem. He then says, well maybe the "problem hasn't fully manifested itself." So knowing I won't get anywhere with him anymore, and after he tried to explain how cooling systems and computer work to an engineer (me, who pretty much focused on thermal fluids and wanted to be an automotive engineer through college) I left.

 

4) Call SOA the next day since it was 4:30PT already and gave them the full problem statement. They give me a case number and told me to make a new appointment and to follow up afterwards. They also called the dealership immediately and notified them of the case. Dealership called me to make an appointment.

 

5) Today, April 12. Take car to dealership. After sitting for an hour they bring the keys back to me an say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the vehicle, the fan comes on at 193 degrees and shuts off when it cools below 193 degrees (something started to tell me upstairs that that didn't sound quite right for my problem). Again the ACC isn't annotated or addressed. So understanding that his computer tells him that my car is normal, I try to get him to troubleshoot the vehicle and figure out why then I have a car without normal operation. After he again is repeating the TSB verbatim, and is constantly condescending to me about how he wouldn't know since I drive the vehicle and he doesn't...IMPORTANT POINT, nobody has yet to drive the vehicle and try to diagnose my problem...I call him out on being condescending. So he argues about that with me and tells me that he has been awarded the best customer service manager on the west coast (for which he proudly wears a ring). So I, now experiencing some of the worst customer service I had ever seen, tell him that I'm from the East coast and had never seen such poor customer service. So some more arguing (note, calm, no screaming) he tries to tell me that I couldn't possibly know how my car is exactly supposed to operate...yeah exactly what you tell and engineer that hates to be wrong...Well I told him exactly why I know why my car operates as such and he tells me that maybe I should try another dealer since we aren't getting anywhere with this.

 

6) Call SOA immediately to tell them this litany before they contacted the dealer. They annotated it and my customer service rep who was done for the day is calling the dealer tomorrow morning and will follow up with me then.

 

7) When I get home, the hampster in my head started running a little faster because now I had figured out why what the service manager was telling me was wrong. 193 is way to low for a subfan to come on, that sounds about right for the main fan to kick on. So I read the service sheet I signed with the problem writeup (still lacking the mysterious unexplained ACC problem) and see the same words I had read and signed, that the problem was with the right fan. Right looked right to me because when I stand over the hood of my car and work on it, the broken fan was on the right side. Yeah you guessed it, after telling them drivers side and saying numerous times it was the same problem as the recall, they tested the wrong fan. In fact, at no time did they perform a thorough check on the drivers side fan, and as usual when I called the service manager he just ad nauseam repeated the TSB and answered no questions.

 

8) Called SOA and had them annotate this finding so that the dealer won't spin it tomorrow.

 

Sorry, I know that was long...

 

Any thoughts? Any known problems with not correcting the ecm problem immediately, because I have no time to take it to the dealer next week, don't want to take it to that dealer anyways, and am making a cross country trip back to Pittsburgh next Sunday.

[Lie495s14]

So there are 2 fans ? which one is being recalled ?

 

I had my car in for fan relay recall, but still, once the fan turns on, it will stay on. Although i'm not sure which fan it is, should i bring it back to dealer ? or is it normal for fan to stay on all time once it is on?

 

How i noticed the problem? If i pull hard in 1st and 2nd gear, the fan will come on, and stay on.

[Fat Charlie]

 

The recall is posted at the beginning of this thread. Read it. There's nothing wrong with the fans, but with the fan control circuit in the ECM. Your issue is with fans, but not as a part of this recall.

[Lie495s14]

 

The recall is posted at the beginning of this thread. Read it. There's nothing wrong with the fans, but with the fan control circuit in the ECM. Your issue is with fans, but not as a part of this recall.

of curse the fans are working, otherwise i wouldn't be complaining. i took my car in today for fan relay recall, but seems it didn't fix the problem i was having. Anyway, since you're suggesting me to go somewhereles to disguess this problem because it's not fan relay related, i'll start a new thread.

[CarlJNgmail.com]

The story continues...so this might help:

 

Took the car back to Pittsburgh and a real helpful dealer look at it. Shop foreman said there was nothing wrong with the car but was nice enough to take me in the garage and explain what he thought I was seeing. Turns out that my subfan was never the problem (ok no flaming please, I'm still a noob to the suby, or twin fans for that matter) the main fan (driver side) was the one coming on. Still something was wrong so I had the foreman drive the car with me inside and confirmed that the fan was staying on after an easy 10 minute drive and there was a problem.

 

So now, 4 weeks later they're going to replace the computer in the car

but we're not convinced that will solve the problem completely. Possible other causes:

1)The main fan relay heats up and gets stuck or;

2)There is a short in the main fan that caused the problem the whole time

 

So if your in Pittsburgh, Day Subaru with Dave the service manager was really really good.