LawGT Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 No problem. Hope you enjoy them, if you get them. One other thing to note is that people have run these at different PSI. I like to run mine at 35F/37R. I have seen higher from others, but play around with them. I did notice some flat spotting if left at 32 PSI in freezing temps. Cheers, Mike Cracken, why do you have the PSI in the rear higher than the front? Just curious... Shouldn't it be the other way around? The manual allows for a 2PSI higher figure in the fronts vs. the rears, I believe to account for the weight of the engine and keep the rolling tire diamater front to back equal...thus keeping the AWD system (diffs and all) happy. I have mine at 36F and 34 R, sometimes going 37F 35 R.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcracken Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Cracken, why do you have the PSI in the rear higher than the front? Just curious... Shouldn't it be the other way around? ... http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/03/homer-doh.jpg One should not respond while taking large amounts of cold meds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Any linkys to that Road and Track test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/03/homer-doh.jpg One should not respond while taking large amounts of cold meds! Haha...I'm confused. Is it different for wagons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Any linkys to that Road and Track test? See post #40 in the "Compendium" "Random note, when I was waiting for the installation, I read the new road& track. They had a nice small comparo of 4 tires (including the 960) on a miata in the 225/45/17 size on 17 x 7 rims. The 960 was very close in performace to the all tires tested except some kuhmo race gumballs. impressive. EDIT: here is the link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4228" I'll try to paste it: Changing Tires on the Mazda MX-5 Miata We examine several options—including one that’s outlandishly fun. By Dennis Simanaitis and Jonathan Elfalan • Photos by Marc Urbano December 2006 This is a tire test we just had to do: There's an expanding array of tire categories, ultra-high-performance all-season, ultra-high-performance summer, maximum-performance summer, extreme-performance summer-and even competition rubber that's DOT-street-legal. One of our favorite sports cars, the Mazda MX-5, is well into its new generation. And there are scads of first- and second-generation Miatas running around that might profit from new rubber. Last, we're fortunate in having an open invitation from the good folks at The Tire Rack to use its South Bend, Indiana, test facility. Better yet-and bless 'em-they do all the tire changing. We get to do the driving. Our choices of tires, detailed in a chart nearby, arose in a natural way. The MX-5 Miata Sport has but one Original Equipment tire, and a very good one, the 205/45R-17 ultra-high-performance summer Michelin Pilot Preceda. This tire is our O.E. baseline against which the others are measured. In nearby results, it is the 100-percent entry in each test venue. Values less than 100 signify performance inferior to this baseline in that particular evaluation, those beyond 100 signify superior performance. Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position 225/45R-17 It used to be that all-season tires were real mom-and-pop compromises. But the Bridgestone Potenza Pole Positions are rightly categorized as ultra-high-performance all-seasons. True, compared with their summer counterparts, they gave away a bit of ultimate grip both wet and dry. They understeered a tad more around the skidpad. Not surprisingly, though, this predictability made these tires a touch quicker than our O.E. baseline through the slalom transitions. Although such tires are labeled "all-season," we see their real forte as "all-temperature." That is, their compound can withstand an August trip across west Texas yet retain its pliability in January North Dakota. Had our Indiana testing been delayed for six months, the Potenza Pole Positions would have handily out-performed their summer counterparts, even in the dry and especially so in colder wet conditions. Pirelli P Zero Nero 225/45R-17 The Pirelli P Zero exemplifies the max-performance summer tire, more or less residing between ultra-high-performance and extreme-performance summer categories. By the way, these categories (and others) are defined at The Tire Rack's most informative website, http://www.tirerack.com. The max-performance definition emphasizes both wet and dry, and the P Zeros proved themselves particularly capable in the wet. Curiously, they did this with relatively little drama. In fact, Hot-Shoe Jonathan Elfalan thought he was going quicker on another tire, but The Tire Rack's elaborate timing showed otherwise, section by section. The Pirelli's dry grip was also high without upsetting the Miata's inherent balance. "Very predictable, not at all peaky," reported Hot-Shoe. Nor did Old-Shoe Simanaitis disagree. Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R 225/45R-17 Our extreme-performance summer category was represented by the new Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R. The Tire Rack's definition of this category cites dry performance as its primary asset, even with a trade of some wet capability and comfort. The Uniform Tire Quality Grading's wear rating for the RE-01R was a relatively quick-wearing 140, compared with values beyond 200 for the Michelin and Pirelli-and 400 for its Pole Position all-season sibling. (These wear assessments, provided by tiremakers themselves, are all relative to a UTQG standard tire's 100. And stick around-you ain't seen nothin' yet.) Sure enough, around our real-world road route, the RE-01Rs encountered sharpish steps where the most comfortable all-seasons felt only ramps. Jonathan sensed more high-frequency vibration than with the other tires, and there was a bit more noise in our coastdown section. Not surprisingly, though, the RE-01Rs exhibited the best turn-in thus far. Again, as expected, the RE-01Rs didn't handle deeper water as well as the Pirellis. (Nowhere was it really deep; what's optimal for testing is enough water to cover road surface textures plus a tad, perhaps a few millimeters more.) In the dry, Jonathan felt he had more grip and could brake later with the RE-01Rs, though in the instrumented brake measurements these tires were a tad behind the Pirellis. What's more, when lap times were totaled up, much to our surprise, the extreme-performance RE-01Rs were within experimental error of the max-performance Pirellis-and of the O.E. Michelins. To the RE-01R's benefit, in later evaluations done by The Tire Rack guys (on 3 Series BMWs), the Bridgestones were identified as the top choice among four extreme-performance tires. In fact, around the skidpad one of the drivers exceeded 1.0g on the RE-01Rs. Kumho Ecsta V710 245/45R-17 Our Miata didn't quite see 1g-until we fitted the trick Kumho Ecsta V710s. DOT-street-legal though intended for competition, the oversize Kumhos gave us thrill rides around the (no longer real-world) road route, our fastest dry laps on the test circuit and consistent skidpad values approaching 1.1g. What a hoot! On the road route, the Kumhos picked up everything but women. (No surprise; their UTQG wear rating is 30.) They provided more than communication: Said Simanaitis, "Your job as driver is to separate what's relevant information from what's not." With 2_ of us aboard (Simanaitis being larger than the average bear), there was a bit of shaving of the rear tires' outer shoulders. This was no problem in our solo activities, even at speed. And, amazingly enough, the Kumhos even performed in the wet. Neither of us have any idea how these tires evacuate the water. But, as Old-Shoe observed, "It's an evident triumph of tread compound over tread design." Noted Hot-Shoe in the dry: "There's a phenomenal amount of grip everywhere, more than I can realize in my three test laps. At many places around the circuit, these tires make the Miata feel underpowered. Braking points are dramatically shorter." (Note too the instrumented braking: fully 15 percent better than baseline.) "I think I need a set of these tires for myself…" Jonathan concluded with a wistful smile. Our visit wouldn't have been complete without acknowledging a historically significant institution of higher learning located in South Bend. And Notre Dame colleagues at The Tire Rack introduced us to LaSalle Grill, a historically significant eatery in town. Although South Bend is nowhere near an ocean, Simanaitis sure enjoyed the soft-shell crabs, and Elfalan's grilled Atlantic salmon was great as well. Note, for our particular Miata, this is a "plus-zero" test. That is, we retain its O.E. 17 x 7-in. wheel size. We had several reasons for this: MX-5 Sport owners needn't lay out cash for new wheels. Yet the test already has plus-one implications for other Miatas running 16-in. rubber. And our chosen plus-zero size of 225/45R-17 is O.E. on a good many other cars as well. Alas, there's a downside too, one that's apparent in comparing tire dimensions. Our 225/45s are obviously wider than the O.E. 205/45s (nominally by 20 mm, about 0.8 in.). But they're also taller by about this same amount. And, as with any plus-concept, they're also a bit heavier. The 225/45s have no problems with clearance. And, in fact, we think they improve the looks of the MX-5. Rolling circumference of a 225/45 is about 3 percent greater than the O.E.'s (with concomitant changes in speeds in gears and speedometer error); but this is hardly noticeable. However, wiser heads warned us, their added height and weight wouldn't necessarily be optimal with the MX-5's suspension tuning, already calibrated for its unique O.E. Michelin 205/45s. In theory, for example, a lower-profile 225/40R-17 would be a better fit, being a scant 0.1 in. shorter than the O.E. 205/45's overall diameter of 24.2 in. However, no one chooses to make a 225/40R-17. So 225/45R-17s, they were. In selecting tires, we chose to examine varied categories in a decidedly apples-versus-oranges approach. In order of intended increasing performance, these include the new Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position as an ultra-high-performance all-season entry. The familiar Pirelli P Zero Nero is our max-performance summer entry. And the new Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R is our extreme-performance summer entry. Last, we tossed something outlandish into our apples-and-oranges mix: According to Miata competitors, the 245/45R-17 Kumho Ecsta V710 is a hot autocross favorite. We wondered what it would be like around The Tire Track's 5.6-mile road route and through its highly instrumented nominal 30 seconds of twisties-in the dry and especially in the wet. Here's what we learned about each tire, its intended category and its appropriateness as fitment to our MX-5. As is our custom in such articles, we've also included one of our R&T Tire Test Restaurant Reviews. Michelin Pilot Preceda- Our 205/45R-17 O.E. Baseline This is the only Michelin tire here, principally because the company didn't think our 225/45 plus-zero idea would yield substantially better performance. And they weren't far off in their reasoning. It's clear that Mazda has done a lot of sophisticated suspension tuning with this sole O.E. 205/45 in mind. True, there were measurable and repeatable differences among our tire options, but the differences were subtle-and not always in the direction we expected. For instance, the O.E. Michelin outbraked the wider all-season tires in the dry and the extreme-performance summer tires in the wet (neither, a surprise). But they also posted better dry skidpad results than anything but the gumball Kumhos. And, as a measure of overall balance, within experimental error they matched the wider summer tires in dry lapping as well. It's worth noting, by the way, that a wider tire doesn't necessarily put down a larger footprint. In fact, its wider contact patch will be commensurately shorter in the longitudinal direction. Footprint area depends primarily on load and inflation pressure; tire construction is a secondary factor, one that's essentially equal for tires of similar category. Suppose, for example, that a tire is supporting 700 lb. of car mass and is inflated to 35 psi. Think about the latter unit: per square inch. Hence the footprint will be 20 sq. in. (700 lb./35 psi). A wider tire's contact patch might be 5 in. wide x 4 in. long; a narrower one, maybe 4 x 5. So how do wider tires "improve performance"? Their wider contact patch is better aligned to resist side loads, and to us sporty types, cornering performance is crucial. (By contrast, optimal drag-racing tires are proportionally tall, not wide.) But we stray from the point. Around The Tire Rack's 5.6-mile real-world road route, the Michelin Pilot Preceda O.E.s were generally more comfortable than the other tires. They were immune to high-speed nibble, exhibited less jiggle on frost-heaved macadam and jumped around less on a freeway exit ramp evidently chosen by Tire Rack specialists for its badly broken concrete. Differences were easier to discern when compared with the max- and extreme-performance tires, less so with the all-seasons. In fact, the all-season Bridgestones felt the most plush, least step-like, in response to patched surfaces. Our wet evaluations around The Tire Rack's instrumented circuit came before the dry testing (in the interest of tire preservation, of course). But, wet or dry, the Michelins provided our O.E. baseline for characteristics such as turn-in, brake feel, grip, predictability and, should things truly get out of hand, forgiveness. And a very high baseline it was. RESULTS TIRE Braking Slalom Skidpad LapsDry Wet Dry Wet Dry Wet Dry Wet MichelinPilot, O.E.100100100100100100100100BridgestoneAll-Season97101101101989999100PirelliP Zero Nero10610810310699102100103BridgestoneRE-01R1049710299999910099KumhoECSTA115100106101104102105101 A SELECTION OF MAZDA MX-5 MIATA RUBBERTirePerformance CategorySizeWeight, lb. 1Diameter, in.UTQG 2Michelin Pilot PrecedaUltra-high Performance Summer, O.E.205/45R-1720.624.2240 AA ABridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole PositionUltra-high Performance All-Season225/45R-1725.425.0400 AA APirelli P Zero NeroMax Performance Summer225/45R-1722.425.0220 AA ABridgestone Potenza RE-01RExtreme Performance Summer225/45R-1725.825.0140 AKumho Ecsta V710Competition245/45R-1724.825.430 C A1 Tire only. 2 Uniform Tire Quality Grading: Treadwear Temperature Traction, relative to UTQG Standard Tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Stupid text wrap! The graph with the results won't display properly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcracken Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 No, I did a mystipe and the fronts should be higher then the rears. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 ^^ haha. cool. I go back and forth between liking 36/34 or 37/35... depends on the weather, I guess. Soemtimes the 37's feel a bit too harsh , but other times it does not... mystery.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJim Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Well, today starts the snow and sleet in North Delaware/SE PA and I gotta tell you, I'm pretty impressed with the way that things are shaping up with regards to these tires. If given the opportunity to do so (no obstacles, moving or otherwise), I tend to drive on the edge in the snow and the 960's, while showing some signs of slip when driving like a complete jackass were rock solid otherwise. Racing through some patches of snow and slush were no problem, relatively quick corners in the packed snow were no problem, braking (thank God) was no problem. In some ways I'm a tad disappointed as some of my winter driving excitement is now gone. - Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcracken Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 ^^ haha. cool. I go back and forth between liking 36/34 or 37/35... depends on the weather, I guess. Soemtimes the 37's feel a bit too harsh , but other times it does not... mystery.. What is also a mystery, I was driving around thinking the tires felt soft, but the psi checked out at 37/35. I don't want to push the psi any higher because I'm mostly a grocery getter these days. Although, my daughter (sitting in her Recaro booster seat) loves it when I take corners fast. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 In some ways I'm a tad disappointed as some of my winter driving excitement is now gone. - Jim If by excitement you mean the "OH SH!T im going to crash!" feeling of teh re92s on breakaway, I dont miss it at all Update on my usage: Ive prob driven 500kms or so since I got the tires and have had a chance to "get to know them" a bit better. Its still freezing here and the tires are gripping nicely. Ive taken a few hard corners and the tires ate them up. Braking is better as well. Today we are getting a huge dump of snow, so finally ill get to test them in teh white stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Got like 3 feet of snow last night So I finally got a chance to test the tires in a variety of snow conditions. On my street which was uncleared there was a good foot or two of snow, the car ate it up, I mean I was driving slow and being careful but the car felt very much in control and the tires gripped well. On the bigger streets where there was less snow and it was more packed the car felt good as well. I didnt notice the rear sliding out like it used to in the re92s in the winter, yet I was able to get a bit of controllable drift if I wanted it. Changing lanes where there was different levels of snow was no issue either, this used to be a bit sketchy with the re92s. Overall I am very impressed, while Im sure dedicated snows would be amazing, these tires are great in snow as long as you still drive carefully (which you should be anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Although, my daughter (sitting in her Recaro booster seat) loves it when I take corners fast. Cheers, Mike lol Recaro booster seat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJim Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 If by excitement you mean the "OH SH!T im going to crash!" feeling of teh re92s on breakaway, I dont miss it at all Yeah, that's it! It's not good, but you've got to admit that it's exciting! To keep somewhat on topic: Went tearing around the city a few times, once with pretty bad roads and again when the roads were better. Once again, these tires have proven that they're everything I'd hoped that they would be. - Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deimos Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Yeah, that's it! It's not good, but you've got to admit that it's exciting! To keep somewhat on topic: Went tearing around the city a few times, once with pretty bad roads and again when the roads were better. Once again, these tires have proven that they're everything I'd hoped that they would be. - Jim Yeah going around a long corner today, I stupidly hit the brakes and the rear kicked out a little bit (I keep forgetting about this dynamic), but was easily recovered, this same manouver would have had me in a ditch with the re92s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsquish Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Well I have to agree with the good points of these in the snow!! A blizzard hit us on Tues and Wed and when I was finally allowed out to play (by the GF that is) what fun! I went over to check on my mom and I drove through deep enough snow that I was the snow plow. The car had no problems, especially as I passed a Grand Am that was stuck?? On plowed roads it still handles very well when you want it to, and yet you can drift it when you want. Once I figured out how to drive this car in the white stuff, I absolutely love this car and tires!!! ________ WASHINGTON MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Just got a great quote. (4) 225/45/17 RE960 $620.94 out the door. Plus 10% off manufacturer rebate of just tires (2/18-3/31) http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/opencms/opencms/offers/index.html Final price should be about $565. I'll be selling my gently use RE92A's cheap if anyone wants them. Pick up prefered, no damage...8/32 left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJim Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Nice! I don't think you'll be disappointed. These really are pretty nice tires. - Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 guessing that for those who went with the 225 width don't mind and/or notice the extra 2lbs. per tire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianspi Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 ...I was driving around thinking the tires felt soft, but the psi checked out at 37/35... If you checked them after driving, your running way to low..like 32/29. 37/35 should be a good cold pressure, not hot. See: http://www.tirerack.com/tires-techpage-1/147.shtml enough zip ties and duct tape will fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawGT Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 guessing that for those who went with the 225 width don't mind and/or notice the extra 2lbs. per tire? I have not noticed it...but then again, I'm not sure what I should be looking for. $565 is a great deal. I got mine for about $600 including tax (in IL 8.25 %) installation etc, and after "selling" discount tires my old re92's for $100. You will like the tires and notice the improvement. Also, depending on your tastes, at F36 and R34 the 225's still ride much better than the stock re92's comfortwise. Others like the ride a bit firmer, and bump them to F38 R36, or even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsquish Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I went with the 225's after talking with Tire Rack for a while. Since I switched from the 92's I'm not sure what 205 would feel like, but I do like the 225's. I think (and yeah, we all know what happends when we think) I notice the extra 2lbs, but if it makes the ride better, I can live with it since I'm driving a "Brady wagon grocery getter". ________ Chargeback Insurance Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Thanks for the tip on Firestone Rebate. I just put a deposit for 4 new RE960's for my 2004 WRX. I cannot wait to shed its Nokian NRW's(old school WR's) that are mushy. It will be interesting to compare the NRW's(only one storm this year) vs RE960's if any more snow comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Somebody had pics of 225/45/17 RE960's on stock rims. I searched around...couldn't find them. Anyone have them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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