HansGT Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Car is at a different dealership today with the latest TSB.....we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QTwo Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Is the only difference between the TSB's info for the dealer? No part numbers have changed, have they? I am still trying to get them to replace mine. I had brought it in to another dealer, who gave me the same line as the first, "running as intended and per spec." Did Subie design the car to have the fans wailing away on a 35 degree morning? Doesn't make much sense and I am at the end of my rope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Is the only difference between the TSB's info for the dealer? No part numbers have changed, have they? I am still trying to get them to replace mine. I had brought it in to another dealer, who gave me the same line as the first, "running as intended and per spec." Did Subie design the car to have the fans wailing away on a 35 degree morning? Doesn't make much sense and I am at the end of my rope. See post #223 The latest TSB includes the warrenty info with labor description, labor operation, fail codes and labor time. yeah, both mine were on this morning. 40 degrees. thats happened other mornings, yet i go out at lunch time....no fans. now mind you neither time do i have the heat, defrost or AC on. WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdt Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 ^^^me too. Well sort of. My driver side fan has been running the last 5 mornings within a minute of driving the car. Last night it was ok and this morning, the fan did not run. I wonder if this is and intermittant problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Dealer called about 1/2 hour ago. New relay and new ECM ordered. To be replaced mid next week. Hope this fixes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I'm having the problem where the fans goes on after about 5 minutes of driving and stays on until I shut the car off, so I just called the dealer and it's going in on Monday to get fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I'm having the problem where the fans goes on after about 5 minutes of driving and stays on until I shut the car off, so I just called the dealer and it's going in on Monday to get fixed. good luck. bring a copy of the bulliten. if your driving hard the fan could come on after 5 minutes. take a good listen when you start up your car....walk around to the front to see if both fans are running. if you have this upon cold start up then you pretty much have the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 How much would it be to fix if the vehicle is no longer under warrenty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 How much would it be to fix if the vehicle is no longer under warrenty? Cheapest way to purchase the ECM is online. The dealer will hose you. I think they run about $575 and up. The relay is only about $15. If you think you have the problem but are not sure...I'd try the relay first to see if it solves it. If it continues...ECM is toast. Note: ECM should be covered for 80,000 miles. Part of Federal law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomH Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Took it to Glanzman Subaru and they called an hour after I took it in and they guy said that they need to replace the relay and ECM and they ordered the parts....Good thing to be under warranty still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Cheapest way to purchase the ECM is online. The dealer will hose you. I think they run about $575 and up. The relay is only about $15. If you think you have the problem but are not sure...I'd try the relay first to see if it solves it. If it continues...ECM is toast. Note: ECM should be covered for 80,000 miles. Part of Federal law. I thought that warrenty ran out at 36,000mi... my 05 OBXT has 53k on her.... the dealer also said that the surgeing ~2k rpm isn't covered (the ECU fix) I'm pretty sure i have the fan problem... because it'll be... pretty cold out, i drive 5 minutes to the store, and both fans are running full blast, i let it sit... over 10 minutes.. just wondering if it'll shut off... no dice, still running full blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I thought that warrenty ran out at 36,000mi... my 05 OBXT has 53k on her.... the dealer also said that the surgeing ~2k rpm isn't covered (the ECU fix) post #22....Jon [in CT] "I wondered the same thing. Why didn't Subaru initiate a service campaign to replace those defective relays before they fried more ECUs? The ECUs in the US are covered by an 8yr/80,000mi Federal Emissions Extended Defect Warranty." post #154...Vimy 101 "I asked the service guy at Subaru of Schaumburg the same thing and got the same answer. I questioned him about why they were waiting for a cheap part to fail that also takes the big money ECU with it and he said don't worry because the ECU was waranteed for 8 yrs 80k miles by law. I still don't get it unless the number crunchers did their thing and came to the conclusion that just replacing failures when they arise makes the most economic sense for them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Google is your friend...check this out... http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt EMISSIONS WARRANTIES FOR 1995 AND NEWER CARS & TRUCKS Federally required emission control warranties protect you, the vehicle owner, from the cost of repairs for certain emission related failures that result from manufacturer defects in materials and workmanship or that cause your vehicle to exceed federal emission standards. Manufacturers have been required by federal law to provide emission control coverage for vehicles since 1972. There are two federal emission control warranties discussed in this fact sheet: (A) "Performance Warranty" and (B) "Design and Defect Warranty". This fact sheet explains each warranty in detail, provides you with a list of some of the parts covered under these warranties, explains the procedures for making an emissions warranty claim, and answers some of the most commonly asked questions about emissions warranties. Finally, we will give you some tips on how to prevent future emission-related failures and maintain the longevity of your vehicle's engine. B. DESIGN AND DEFECT WARRANTY The Design and Defect Warranty covers repair of emission related parts which become defective during the warranty period. The Design and Defect warranty for model year 1995 and newer light-duty cars and trucks is outlined below: Design and Defect Warranty Coverage for 1995 and newer light-duty vehicles: * Emission control and emission related parts are covered for the first 2 years or 24,000 miles of vehicle use; and * Specified major emission control components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use. According to federal law, an emission control or emission related part, or a specified major emission control component, that fails because of a defect in materials or workmanship, must be repaired or replaced by the vehicle manufacturer free of charge as long as the vehicle has not exceeded the warranty time or mileage limitations for the failed part. What Are Specified Major Emission Control Components? There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995 and newer vehicles: * Catalytic converters. * The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU). * The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD). Sounds like you should only have to pay for the relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 post #22....Jon [in CT] "I wondered the same thing. Why didn't Subaru initiate a service campaign to replace those defective relays before they fried more ECUs? The ECUs in the US are covered by an 8yr/80,000mi Federal Emissions Extended Defect Warranty." post #154...Vimy 101 "I asked the service guy at Subaru of Schaumburg the same thing and got the same answer. I questioned him about why they were waiting for a cheap part to fail that also takes the big money ECU with it and he said don't worry because the ECU was waranteed for 8 yrs 80k miles by law. I still don't get it unless the number crunchers did their thing and came to the conclusion that just replacing failures when they arise makes the most economic sense for them." ^ A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. - Narrator, Fight Club, Finch, 1999. (Aside - I think that this particular line came very, very close to Palahniuk's original. It's one of my favorites.) <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Anyone with an ECM replacment have issue loading maps from their AP? Thought I remember some time ago someone reporting their AP didn't read the new ECM. They needed to send it back to Cobb or update the software or something. Dunno. My AP is from mid '05. Who know's when it was made...came with v1.10 maps. My new ECM will be 22611AJ17D. Problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSaladino Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 after about 2 months of this annoying fan nonsense, i finally found this thread. read all the posts etc, printed out a copy of the newest TSB, and went down to the dealer in Chattanooga, TN. This dealer, Kelly Subaru, are the biggest bunch of jackasses i've ever seen.... ANYWAY, after about 30 minutes of my explaining the problem and asking about any TSBs, the service manager finally calls a Subie tech to come up and talk to me. I tell him the exact same thing that i told the service manager, and guess what! The mechanic happens to know that yes, there is a TSB calling for a new relay and ECM. I'm standing there going, AWESOME!! then they call down to find out if it's covered under warranty. they come back with the answer of, No, and quote me $840 USD JUST FOR THE ECM! needless to say, i'm pretty annoyed with the whole thing, and I need some help. Thinking of going to another dealer, but i dont want to run into the same old song and dance. Suggestions?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Is your car not under warranty? Warranty should cover all of this. Call SOA directly if you need to. X --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 No, and quote me $840 USD JUST FOR THE ECM! needless to say, i'm pretty annoyed with the whole thing, and I need some help. Thinking of going to another dealer, but i dont want to run into the same old song and dance. Suggestions?? HELLO...read my post #238. There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995 and newer vehicles: * Catalytic converters. * The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU). * The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD). They are trying to pull a fast one. BTW the ECM is only $524.98 at http://www.1stsubaruparts.com. (part# 22611AJ17JD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_phil Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 So finally my fan has decided to stay on all the time. I made an appointment with the folks at Richard Lucas Subaru. The lady says they have the parts in stock. I bring the car in, the service adviser has no clue of the TSB (and I forgot to bring my copy), and says something along the lines: "well, your ecu was reprogrammed last time you were here, so there shouldn't be a problem with it". Whatever, they take the car and work on it. An hour and a half later ther car is back, but not fixed. "The relay is on order", I am told. "No new ECU for you", that's the exact quote. Well, I guess that they could not perform the entire diagostics routine withour replacing the relay, so they didn't even get to the point of checking the ecu. Which means at least two more trips for me. But, that's not the best part. I get home and open the relay box to see what's up. And HERE IT IS - looks like they could not get the relay out and they busted it. And, according to this thread it's not even the correct relay? http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7d6t4/Legacy/relay.jpg Oh, and while I'm waiting for the car, I bring up the issue of windshield wipers and '... how about you replace them under warranty?'. The guy tells me in a very confident manner that they are only covered up to 12k miles. He is immediately backed up by his manager and another service writer. References to this forum do not help, so I go to the showroom and get a 2007 brochure which says 'wear items warrantied for 36/36'. "It's a 2007, and yours is 2005" is the reply I get. So I call the 800 number, and they tell me to tell the service manager to call their contact at SOA, and of course the whole thing gets straightened out, but I get no apology and no admission of guilt. Well, nothing ever went right the first time with this place, but I am not giving them any more chances. Looks like its Town Motors or Liberty Subary. Oh well, makes me even more glad that I chose the DIY route years ago. Rant off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 You sould also send that picture of your destroyed relay, as well as a reminder of this full tale, to SoA, and stress not only the dealership's lack of knowledge about warranty repairs, but also that no apology was offered. I'd also make it a point to complain to the GM of the dealership. That's just poor service - I'd say it borders on stupidity/incompetence. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 wow. another crappy dealer. go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 just-phil: Yeah, I think that's the 'other' main fan relay, not the one that needs to be replaced. It is a bit confusing that the fuse box lists two relays with the same name. Looks to me like they need to replace BOTH for you now: since they eff'd up the wrong one. I just replaced mine to be safe. Part was $20.69 at my dealership with tax - they always jack the prices way up there, but I didn't worry about it this time. I happened to see my tech (not the service advisor) when I picked it up, and he did know about the TSB and was concerned for my ECU - but I told him I was not having any fan problems yet. Took 2 minutes to replace myself. I never understand why dealerships sometimes seems to resist warranty work - they get paid by SoA for the labor / parts don't they? And service advisors are often worse than worthless; they can actually be detrimental, due to poor communication of your problem to the tech! I understand that you probably can't have the techs themselves dealing with the customers, but I really wish that service advisors were more technically competent, and took the trouble to educate themselves about all the pertinent recall / TSB information. Not just talking Subaru here - this phenomenom seems to transcend all OEM's. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 does anyone know the part number for the new relay? for an 05 OBXT (i don't think there's any diff.) i know 22611AJ17D is the new ecm (i'll get the dealer to warrenty that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 does anyone know the part number for the new relay? for an 05 OBXT (i don't think there's any diff.) i know 22611AJ17D is the new ecm (i'll get the dealer to warrenty that) 82501AG120....found in this thread on the actual TSB. (don't for get the bulliten says the issue is only found with the 2.5 Turbo MT..not sure if this fits you or not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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