Wonder why Subaru doesn't put HIDs in their cars? Look here. (except the Sti)

[FameMax]

I recently emailed SOA about the possibility of HIDs in future models, I got an email back within 24hr that stated this...

 

"Dear Mr. Connolly:

 

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for taking the time to contact us. The most valued opinion of any business is that of its customers. Your comments are valuable to us in that they provide us with a clear picture of our products as seen by our customers. We also appreciate your compliments on your Legacy GT and your enthusiasm for Subaru products.

 

We appreciate your suggestions for improvements to our Legacy GT. We have taken the liberty of forwarding your suggestions to our Product Planning Department for their possible consideration on future Subaru vehicles. Input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and we appreciate your comments.

 

None of our Forester, Legacy, or Outback models are available with HID lighting. We have tried to stay away from this for several reasons. There are physiological disadvantages to HID auto headlamps that do not exist with glowing-filament lamps.

 

Probably the biggest issue is HID headlamps' significantly worse color rendering index (CRI), which is in the high-60s to low-70s range. Halogen headlamps' CRI tends to be around 90 to 97 or so. In laymans terms, this means that the human eye's color perception and differentiation is much, much better under halogen light (lower color temperature) than under the light produced by automotive HID headlamps.

 

There is research showing improved distance perception with headlights of *lower* color temperature, for any given intensity. Certainly any kind of shift towards the blue (as with HID headlamps) is a step in the wrong direction in inclement weather (fog, rain, snow, etc.).

 

Based on this and other factors, we have focused our efforts on halogen projector beam technology, which offers a sharp, precise beam pattern, and a strong spread of light without the drawbacks of a HID lamp. While HID is a 'status symbol', safety comes first!

 

If you have any further comments or should you need assistance in the future, please contact our Customer Dealer/Services Department by phone at 1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783) or by email through our Web site ' Contact Us' section. Thank you for your comments."

 

 

 

I can't say im happy with that, but I will admit that the stock bulbs with the projectors are very good.

[gt_ltd]

write back and ask why HID is available in the JDM Legacy then. also, they can always use 3000K (yellow) HID blubs (the color temperature used in OEM HID is around 4100K) if their reason is "safety comes first!"

 

[Gire]

Yes. Stock lighting is great, for non-HID.

So much improved over other cars that I've owned in the past.

 

It is a great canned response that you got. They push safety safety safety in their marketing campaigns and this is no different.

 

Others have made the popular switch to aftermarket HID and love it. I don't think anyone here has indicated that aftermarket HID's performed worse than the OE system.

 

 

Afterall, they are 'Mountain Cars" that we are driving here...

[FameMax]

Oh I have aftermarket HIDs, and I LOVE THEM, I agree it is a canned response, but nevertheless unique. I also asked why my 2002 Maxima had auto up and down on all the windows and my legacy doesn't, he didn't talk about that one.

[slamck]

In laymans terms, this means that the human eye's color perception and differentiation is much, much better under halogen light (lower color temperature) than under the light produced by automotive HID headlamps.

 

Their claim contradicts with my own experience and other articles I've read. Basically regular HID (without additional tint) at 4100K has almost the same color temperature as day light. And human eyes are accustom to seeing colors in day light.

 

There is research showing improved distance perception with headlights of *lower* color temperature, for any given intensity. Certainly any kind of shift towards the blue (as with HID headlamps) is a step in the wrong direction in inclement weather (fog, rain, snow, etc.).

This is why cars are equipped with fog light. What a poor excuse.

 

Based on this and other factors, we have focused our efforts on halogen projector beam technology, which offers a sharp, precise beam pattern, and a strong spread of light without the drawbacks of a HID lamp. While HID is a 'status symbol', safety comes first!

A well engineered HID will always be brighter, thus allows the driver sees farther, than the halogen counterpart. I consider seeing farther while driving at night to be an impartant safety feature.

[Beanboy]

Forester STI has HIDs as well.

[AWD_Rules3830]

i think the stock lighting if fine, much better than my last car ... exploder lol

[VirtualReality]

Did he say why STI has HID if "safety first"?

[IanKen]

IMHO the stock lighting is fine and HIDs are just bling.

[LzyKid4Life]

I agree with subaru...the lights are good the way they are...Hid's do wash out in any kind of wheather but a nice night...GO SUBARU

[matt]

IMHO the stock lighting is fine and HIDs are just bling.

 

I do have to admit HIDs look cool...right up until the car with them hits a little bump and they blind you. Factor in all the cars on the road with misaligned HIDs and they're at best a very selfish safety feature that overall decreases everyone's safety, similar to buying a large car or SUV just for the perceived safety.

 

I'm not convinced about even the safety/superior lighting benefits of HIDs for the driver using them either. I haven't driven any cars with HIDs at night, but from what I've read in some cars they're good and in others they're bad, just like regular lights. I've also seen it mentioned several times that HIDs are much worse than regular lights when it's snowing. Having headlights that aren't good in the snow would be especially bad on a Subaru, because such a high percentage of Subaru buyers bought their cars to drive in the snow (myself included).

[iyalla]

I do think that aftermarket HID technology hits all your points but a well designed factory projector system with instant auto leveling thats stops the HID flash on innocent drivers do work well.

 

Oh and yeah the projector headlights on the Legacy are awesome on their own even with the factory bulbs.

 

By the way did anyway notice that not one GM, FORD or Chrysler car under 30k comes with projector headlights... And they say they're trying to compete?

[WizzD]

IMHO the stock lighting is fine and HIDs are just bling.

 

 

i agree

[wukindada]

Very happy with my stock lamps with silverstars:)

 

Are they as good as the S4's HID's......NO.....but not enough diff. to justify the 1,500 either;)

[Deer Killer]

When you email subaru, you are sending your email directly to a BS artist.

[wukindada]

:lol:

[iyalla]

When you email subaru, you are sending your email directly to a BS artist.

 

They're dealing with a public that buys the Turbonator. Do you blame them. I bet they crack up too

 

When the email comes in > "Oh oh oh let me answer this one I've got a good one hee hee"

[TSiWRX]

I typically agree with brother Deer Killer's assessment of SoA's e-mail replies, but for once, I find myself actually *_almost_* in-agreement with what this particular one has to say.

 

Technologically, HIDs in their present state, even at lower color-temperatures, still pose many technical problems that actually, while making us "feel" like we're "seeing better," are actually causing us to truly "see worse." This not only happens in inclimate weather, but even in fair-weather "ideal" conditions.

 

For what it's worth, I think that what the tech has replied with above is *_somewhat_* accurate (although several points can be debated and even disproven, there are others which are absolutely and positively correct), much of what is said is framed in a very marketing-oriented manner. Indeed, if Subaru felt so strongly against HIDs, then why incorporate them at all in ANY vehicle in their lineup, world-wide?

 

My personal belief is that HIDs in their current state (even with various "active" leveling and/or directional guidance systems) of technical advancement does produce many advantages to night-time driving, but at the same time, they create just as many disadvantages under many varying conditions. However, they are definitely the next step in terms of better illumination, and I have faith that over the next few years, they will become optimized - and that incandescent lighting has perhaps reached the end of its road.

 

HIDs, for now, are not the end-all and be-all that many make them out to be. Such absolute statements are pretty much marketing ploys, subjective renderings, or wishful thinking.

 

But they'll get there, some day soon.

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Lame excuse. STI gets HID's for bling because Subaru doesn't care or value STI drivers' vision?

 

OMG

 

Regardless though, HID's are an improvement on the halogens and conversions (as TSI above will defend) are even better than my Xtec H7 PnP kit. (which is true) HOWEVER, that being said, there will always be people that just don't want to dick with installing HID's and think "us guys" with HID's are just young punks who like "bling".

[crash]

IMHO the stock lighting is fine and HIDs are just bling.

+1

 

And that is the least "canned" response I've EVER seen from the SOA email help.

[AWDxBOOST]

i can see better with the HIDs....or am i just thinking i can see better? haha, no i see better

[slamck]

Are they as good as the S4's HID's......NO.....but not enough diff. to justify the 1,500 either;)

 

$1,500 is misleading. Most manufacturers charge a few hundreds for HID option. My friend got his HID option for $500 when he bought his A4 couple years ago.

[2Simpletons]

Uh, I do see better with HIDs. Period. My eyes don't lie. The road sign I couldn't read xx yards down the road, which I can can now see with HIDs tell me I can see better. That email is BS.

 

Why does Walmart have HID lighting? For the bling?

[TSiWRX]

^ Your eyes are lying - Our senses lie to us all the time.

 

The foreground flooding caused by HIDs, even "proper"/OEM HIDs, will cause your pupils to constrict. This in and of itself will worsen your overall vision, not even mentioning night vision.

 

The far-away signs "pop" out due to the distinct color-difference you are seeing between what you're used to seeing from either other vehicles or from your own past experience with halogens (in this sense, as one climbs the color temperature range, one can actually notice road-signs to "pop" even more, despite a truly rapidly worsening actual visual picture) - and/or can further be due to what's actually incorrect/non-optimized beam pattern straying above what would otherwise be a perfect horizontal cut-off line.

 

Close-up, HID dispersal patterns cause the entire foreground to be flooded with bright light. While this is great for seeing every crack and crevice in the roadway and curbs, it again wreaks havoc on your distance night-vision (imagine driving your LGT with the dash illumination cranked up to "day" levels - one notch above Ill6). Similarly, this intense foreground causes a lot of back-scatter and glare during inclimate weather conditions, particularly if there's a layer of precipitation on the roadway.

 

Our senses deceive us all the time - be it visual, aural, olfactory. Many times, what we perceive to be better isn't necessarily so.

 

As brother PDX-LegacyGT ( who knows me waaaaaayyyy too well, ROFL! ) will point out to you I've often commented on both the goods and the bads of HIDs, and truly, while I believe that in the very near future, they will outperform standard halogens in nearly every way possible, as they stand today, they still have a lot of catching up to do, and are not nearly as super-awesome-great as everyone perceives them to be.

 

[vet]

I haven't heard of even one other manufacturer not wanting to incorporate HID because of "safety" concerns. If there was truly legitimate evidence against using HID I think at least some other manufacturers would be in Subaru's camp.

 

Regardless of Subaru's position many features simply become "necessary" because everyone else is using them. If Subaru wants to compete with the big boys and move up the ladder they need to provide similar features even if they are just bling. For example you can make plenty arguments that a 6spd in the Legacy is not necessary and actually has some drawbacks but all the competitors have them.