Wonder why Subaru doesn't put HIDs in their cars? Look here. (except the Sti)

[LittleBlueGT]

TSi+WRX where do you come up with the time to write these posts? They are true, but you sound like a lighting encyclopedia!

[TSiWRX]

^ I'm by far no "lighting encyclopedia." As a matter of fact, I consider my knowledge-base in this area to be very superficial. However, I do like to help when/if my humble abilities allow.

 

I've just been interested in automotive lighting ever since I've loved cars, and this is probably an overlap with one of my other long-time/continuing hobbies, flashlights (yes, I know, I'm a nerd). Not too, too long ago, I actually received an award from the SAE with regard to glare reduction, but that was aborted when I chose a different career than what I'd planned for. See, I told ya I was a nerd!

 

And for a while now, I've been a basic-science researcher with either direct or strong ties to ophthalmology and visual science.

 

How all this directly ties-in to HIDs was my initial pursuit back in the late 90s to get my then nearing 10-year-old DSM to cast better light at night.... Ever since my first set of "blue bulbs," I was hooked on trying to ACTUALLY be able to see better at night.

 

Right now, I'm just waiting on my colleagues to perfect a 20/20 IR implant for the ultimate in night-time driving convenience and safety. :D As of the last time I checked in on them, they were up to 20/200. Not bad for night-time vision, but heck, I want to see better than I'm seeing now, without my glasses!

 

----

 

As for time?

 

I type a HELL of a lot faster than I write.

 

Smokin' !

[gt_ltd]

tantal and winky:

 

it seems to me that both of you "disapprove" (if i may say) current HIDs because of the color temperature used, instead of the technology itself. if that's the case, what do you have to say about 3000K HID vs halogen?

[LittleBlueGT]

If I were to go with HIDs they would be JDM ones, not aftermarket ones no matter how good the cut-off looks.

 

The aftermarket HIDs don't project as much light far down the road as JDM ones do. They do make the foreground much brighter, which, if you want good highway vision, makes the background harder to see.

[TSiWRX]

tantal and winky:

 

it seems to me that both of you "disapprove" (if i may say) current HIDs because of the color temperature used, instead of the technology itself. if that's the case, what do you have to say about 3000K HID vs halogen?

 

^ I don't necessarily disapprove of the color-temperature....again, the way I humbly see it (no pun intended), the higher color temperatures (still staying below 5000K, of course) can help drivers in many city and other bright ambient-lighting situations to better delineate the short stretch of roadway that they would have to contend with.

 

Actually, that's where I most appreciated the true-retrofit on my last DSM - in the city.

 

With 3000K "yellow" HIDs, the problem still remains that with even many OEM systems, they cast too much light in the foreground - to a degree that even, IMveryHO, neutralizes their "color" benefit in inclimate weather conditions. This is a case where the result is very counter-intuitive, as we tend to think that dark-spots normally associated with halogens are a "bad" thing, where they, perversely, may help us somewhat in preserving our distance night-vision as well as can help mitigate the foreground lighting intensity that's found when engaging proper "fogs" (here, we're talking about "vs" incandescents) in incilmate weather.

 

Honestly, if my driving habits and needs were different from what they are today, I would have either converted to a proper optics-included HID retrofit or, seeing as how nicely our incandescent housings can project HID light, at least have accomplished a plug-and-play "improper"/kit retrofit. It's just that for how and where I drive, objectively reviewed, the stock halogens actually offer more benefit and better performance.

 

No doubt, though, one day soon, continued development of HIDs will truly take them above and beyond their current state - they will truly become active instead of reactive when it comes to things like aim and height adjustments, they will be able to "throw" with a darker foreground but better downfield pattern, they will better approximate good "night" lighting.

 

[GTsleeper]

Allen.......u working today or what man? i cant read fast enough to keep up with all u have typed today & not just on this site:lol: :lol:

[LegGTLT]

I just spent 20 mins catching up myself!!! You got time for one more thread TSi?

[gt_ltd]

With 3000K "yellow" HIDs, the problem still remains that with even many OEM systems, they cast too much light in the foreground - to a degree that even, IMveryHO, neutralizes their "color" benefit in inclimate weather conditions.

 

if I understand correctly, you are saying that some OEM HID systems put out way too much light in the short distance right in front of the driver?

[2Simpletons]

Yea, that's right, people who are familiar with the technology are FOS just because you you choose to believe what you want. Enlighten us further, o great know-it-all.

 

It can't possibly be true that you are a victim of good advertising and what's popular, can it? Nah, no way.

 

 

aside: I work in the lighting industry in technology development, and I can say that you are the one who's FOS, not TSI+WRX. That doesn't mean that you don't mistakenly perceive an improvement with HID's; just that there actually is not an improvement. Color rendering is a very important concept, and if you have ever noticed that certain objects look strangely colored under a fluorescent lamp, then you are recognizing a problem with color rendering. Just an example.

 

:lol:

[LittleBlueGT]

if I understand correctly, you are saying that some OEM HID systems put out way too much light in the short distance right in front of the driver?

 

Partially true, but I am sure they are better then aftermarket HIDs.

[TSiWRX]

^ +1.

 

Foreground flooding is always a problem with current-technology HIDs, no matter if it's OEM or aftermarket (but the latter is often moreso the culprit, and exhibit hot-spots as artifacts much more often). This is unfortunately not perceived as a problem by the driving public, simply as because it's so well-lit, and people think that "hey, I'm seeing so much, I *must* be seeing better/more." Fortunately, engineers are working to correct this issue.

 

Undoubtedly, next-generation systems will have this problem licked, but whether or not other advancements in lighting technology might arise to steal the thunder of HIDs...now that's gonna be a good race to watch. Especially for us lighting nuts.

 

--

 

As for my brothers GTsleeper and LegGTLT -

[gt_ltd]

can any of you name one single halogen system that lights up the road ahead further than the HID on Honda S2000 does?

[praedet]

You really aren't keeping up with this discussion gt_ltd, are you

[gt_ltd]

All I know is that you and I are not on the same page.

[slamck]

Color-temperature aside, the biggest problem is how much light they cast in the foreground, i.e. immediately in front of your vehicle.

 

This is NOT an inherit problem of HID headlight. It is the design of the optics. Its the lens or reflector design that determines how the light is projected in front of the car. There is good and bad optics designs in HID as well as halogen applications.

 

HID is just the light source. All the complaints about glare and poor light pattern are not caused by the light source. They are caused by poorly aimed headlight and poorly designed optics. In fact, a well engineered oem HID headlight has a lesser chance of causing glare to oncoming traffic because of the autoleveling mechanism. I've never gotten flashed at (by oncoming traffic) in my Bimmer but I was flashed at more than once when I was in my '00 RS with over-wattage light bulbs.

 

Its the aftermarket HIDs give a bad name to HID because the halogen housing/optics is not optimized for HID light bulb, thus produces poor aim and light pattern that causes glaring to oncoming traffics.

 

It is a waste of time comparing a well engineered halogen headlight (like the one in Legacy) to some poorly engineered HID headlight (like some of the aftermarket retro kit) and generalize how evil the HID headlight is.

[praedet]

The point is that yes HIDs illuminate farther, BUT, due to the added foreground illumination, your eyes can not actually see more. Basically you are washing out your eyes with the extra foreground light, so that the extra light at a distance really doesn't help your eyes see things at a distance. BUT THERE ARE MORE LUMENS WHICH IS WHAT MOST OF THE pro-HID PEOPLE ARE SAYING

 

> Lumens does not equal better vision

 

I have a FULL retrofit in my Legacy, and I agree with Allen that in certain situations, they are great, but on a back road, there is too much illumination right under the bumper...

 

Ted

[slamck]

can any of you name one single halogen system that lights up the road ahead further than the HID on Honda S2000 does?

 

No one will answer your question because on one can. :icon_lol:

 

No matter how good the LGT projector halogen is, its no match for a well engineered HID headlight. Enough said.

[gt_ltd]

This is NOT an inherit problem of HID headlight. It is the design of the optics. Its the lens or reflector design that determines how the light is projected in front of the car. There is good and bad optics designs in HID as well as halogen applications.

 

HID is just the light source. All the complaints about glare and poor light pattern are not caused by the light source. They are caused by poorly aimed headlight and poorly designed optics.

 

It is a waste of time comparing a well engineered halogen headlight (like the one in Legacy) to some poorly engineered HID headlight and generalize how evil the HID headlight is.

 

that's what I was gonna say.

[gt_ltd]

due to the added foreground illumination, your eyes can not actually see more. Basically you are washing out your eyes with the extra foreground light, so that the extra light at a distance really doesn't help your eyes see things at a distance.

 

can't the same thing happen to a poorly designed halogen system?

[JohnG]

Did you ever live in Japan? Paul told me that Tokyo does get foggy occasionally.

 

Now who is a moron?

 

Take it easy.......I guess I need to put a every time I make a joke?

[gt_ltd]

you bitch

[JohnG]

you bitch

 

Mods, mods!!!! He called me a bitch!!!

[SuperhawkLGT]

Tsi what are you an optical engineer?

[2Simpletons]

This thread is ghey and needs to die. Who'd a thunk headlights would bring out the best in all of us?

[nned4spd]

Just wait till LED headlights come on the market, then it will be HID's are so lame, my LEDs are killer!