There's a Borla exhaust for the Legacy GT!!

[Driver72]

By the way, I looked at a new Legacy GT with a dealer installed Borla exhaust system. It was from at least in front of the cat. I couldn't fully see, but it without a doubt had a different rear cat, instead of the large rectangular looking one that's stock it was cylindrical. The tips were oval shaped and stuck out a bit further than stock. It had a VERY nice burble to it. It wasn't intrusive at all but gave the LGT a more aggressive growl. They did not change the intake at all. And honestly, I didn't notice much performance gain from it. It felt just like the stock LGT I drove just sounded a bit meaner. Without any additional air coming in, via an aftermarket intake, I know some cars gain very little if any power from just an exhaust. I don't think the stock exhaust on the LGT is that restrictive, so maybe in the case of the LGT, the Borla exhaust did very little other than give it it's great sound. It might of given the car an extra couple of hp but again, nothing I could really tell. But I'd be curious to know if Borla dynoed a stock LGT and then dynoed it again immediately following installation of their exhaust. But ohh that sound!! I'm going to check out the Borla website to see what they say. The dealer added $995 to the price of the car for that exhaust.

[Tide]

Moved to powertrain. Cheers. :) :)

[Driver72]

Thanks. Well, the Borla website doesn't list the 05 LGT yet. But it was a Borla, said so on the mufflers, said so on the exhaust tips.

[Tide]

$995 for a hi flow cat + cat back exhaust dual tip seems about right installed. I would imagine a full turbo back would run about 1300-1500.

[Driver72]

yeah, and the sales guy seemed to think they'd deal a bit on that $995 price. I pick up my LGT Limited sedan from that very dealer on Sept. 20th. If the Borla proves to be a bit of a power improvement, I may consider seeing what kind of a deal they'd do for me on that system. Heck the sound of it alone is worth $500. I know a few other manufacturers are working on exhaust systems for the LGT, but I don't know price and don't know what power gains they've gotten from just an exhaust either.

[racerdave]

So at idle and/or cruising speeds it seemed not much different than stock? Then livened up at full-throttle? How would you describe it in those regards? I'd be interested in for no other reason that a bit more exhaust noise when really on it, but I don't want it to impact cruising noise too much.

[apexjapan]

I noticed that when I drove the STi part equipped Legacy (the prototype for the WR) that had the STi exhaust on. Sounds great, possibly a bit better flow, but the problem was that it just made the a/f ratios a bit richer, which doesn't really do that much for power. With a high flow intake fitted it may lean the system out to compensate, but it isn't something I would comfortably want to do with out some basic engine management to keep a/f ratios clean and safe. The intake system on the Legacy is the strong and the weak point. It is rather well optimized for response and power in the mid-range, but it does that at the expense of flow at the top end. It also is rather fine-tuned to the stock boost levels, and the turbo has a hard time producing any more boost without opening up the intake one way or the other. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[Driver72]

Paul, thanks for you insights. That's kind of what I thought. I drove this Borla equipped car and couldn't tell any differences in power over the stock. I know on large V8 trucks (and cars) for that matter, just changing the exhaust can give you 10-15 hp. But I think, even if this Borla exhaust system from (which appeared to be in front of the cat, but probably keeping the stock downpipe) gained even 5 hp I would of felt it had a bit more power. But I didn't. It just sounder cooler, no power gains. Your most likely totally correct, as I suspected, without an intake system and a retune of the ECU, there would be NO noticeable power gains. It might gain 1 hp, but without if it's a bit more restrictive ( I doubt) it could even take 1-2 hp away (again, I doubt Borla would make an exhaust that did that though). Racerdave, you asked, "So at idle and/or cruising speeds it seemed not much different than stock? Then livened up at full-throttle? How would you describe it in those regards?" I noticed the exhaust sound the second I turned the key. It fired up with a bit of a 350Z snarl. I didn't even know the car had the aftermarket exhaust when I went to start it up. But after hearing it, I asked the sales guy, "does this car have an exhaust, the other LGT I drove, I couldn't even HEAR the exhaust." he said, "yeah" I jumped right out to look at it (after I turned the key off though. :D yes, at cruising speeds it settled right in to a barely audible burble. Maybe a couple decibels above stock. It in NO way was intrusive at ANY time. Heck, just turning on the stereo to moderate levels would drown out the sound completely. It was a GREAT sounding exhaust. Just what I'd want...enough to give the LGT some nice sounds, but not intrusive. The sales guy bought a WRX STI 3 weeks ago, and he said this Borla exhaust on the LGT was still quieter than his stock exhaust on the STI.

[racerdave]

Cool... thanks for the input... sounds nice! :)

[Th3Franz]

Awesome. Sounds like a nice solution. I agree that it probably won't yield much for a performance gain, since with dual mufflers, the stock Legacy GT already has a good amount of flow after the catalytic converter. You didn't get around to taking any pics by chance, did you?

[Driver72]

No sorry, had I know, I would of taken my digital camera. I might head back up there in the next couple days. If the car is still there, I'll take the pictures. I think I mentioned they stick out a bit further than the stockers. The stock mufflers are tucked back a bit under the bumper. These Borlas fill the half circle cut outs in the rear bumper and are basically flush, instead of being tucked in. They are also slightly oval shaped. But just slightly. The actually diameter of the pipes looks to be maybe 1/2" larger too. Not drastic. To most and especially those who don't know, they'd think they were the stock mufflers. Heck I walked around the car two or three times myself and didn't notice them. It's no "ricer" coffee can look, but rather classy and clean, but muscular.

[outahere]

[quote name='Driver72']yeah, and the sales guy seemed to think they'd deal a bit on that $995 price. I pick up my LGT Limited sedan from that very dealer on Sept. 20th. If the Borla proves to be a bit of a power improvement, I may consider seeing what kind of a deal they'd do for me on that system. Heck the sound of it alone is worth $500. I know a few other manufacturers are working on exhaust systems for the LGT, but I don't know price and don't know what power gains they've gotten from just an exhaust either.[/quote] If you are primarily after some improvement in sound, wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to simply replace the stock mufflers? Most people seem to calmly accept the outrageous prices of exhaust systems. Seems to me there is a huge markup on cat back systems. I mean $500-$1000 for what, two mufflers, two tips, and some tubing. A cat back system has got to be one of the most expensive performance enhancements out there, on a dollar per horsepower basis.

[racerdave]

Yeah, mufflers would do it. And a lot cheaper. Works for me. ;)

[Boostjunkie]

The other option is to have a muffler shop fab up a system for you. I had a full turboback exhaust made up for my Merkur XR4Ti and it cost me about $350 installed. I bought all the parts (mandrel bent 3" downpipe, 3" high-flow cat, 3" mandrel bent u-bends and muffler) and paid a shop $100 to section the u-bends and weld it all up. I'll probably do the same when I pick up my LGT, but I'll have to wait till someone comes up with a bolt-on downpipe.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='Boostjunkie']The other option is to have a muffler shop fab up a system for you. I had a full turboback exhaust made up for my Merkur XR4Ti and it cost me about $350 installed. I bought all the parts (mandrel bent 3" downpipe, 3" high-flow cat, 3" mandrel bent u-bends and muffler) and paid a shop $100 to section the u-bends and weld it all up. I'll probably do the same when I pick up my LGT, but I'll have to wait till someone comes up with a bolt-on downpipe.[/quote] Yeah, but do they help you out if it doesn't quite fit right and bangs against the heatshield during maneuvers?

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

I agree on the mufflers- COBB is making a set of mufflers and then giving the option of whether or not to buy the catback section- good idea, IMO.

[Boostjunkie]

[quote name='Deer Killer'][quote name='Boostjunkie']The other option is to have a muffler shop fab up a system for you. I had a full turboback exhaust made up for my Merkur XR4Ti and it cost me about $350 installed. I bought all the parts (mandrel bent 3" downpipe, 3" high-flow cat, 3" mandrel bent u-bends and muffler) and paid a shop $100 to section the u-bends and weld it all up. I'll probably do the same when I pick up my LGT, but I'll have to wait till someone comes up with a bolt-on downpipe.[/quote] Yeah, but do they help you out if it doesn't quite fit right and bangs against the heatshield during maneuvers?[/quote] I've had the same thing done twice now on different cars, at different shops, and never had a problem. I'd suspect that any good shop would have no problem with standing behind their work and fixing any problems that might arise. I was in the shop helping the welder when he built my exhaust system, so I could see exactly what was going on and how well the system fit. The only gamble is if there is going to a resonance somewhere in the rpm band. When an aftermarket company designs an exhaust system, they usually have to try a couple different resonators to eliminate droan at specific rpm points. I've been lucky so far, but even if you have to try a couple different resonators they are only about $30-50 a piece.

[BoxerGT2.5]

Adding $995 to the cost of the car by the dealer tells me one thing...they marked it up quite a bit. Most Borla's are priced 400-650. When it is available...I would count on getting it much cheaper.

[Driver72]

I don't know about much cheaper. I went to the Borla website and they had cat back systems that were running $900. Some were as low as $600 but then considering installation....Obviously they wouldn't price it at exactly what it cost them, they did it to make money. I figure they added $200-250 onto what it cost them. But, like what has already been said, the stock LGT exhaust is probably as good as you are going to get without an intake and retune of the ECU. Without that, you probably won't get more than 1 hp gain from the aftermarket pipe. And it's VERY possible you could LOSE some power in certain areas of the rpm range, unless Borla (and other aftermarket makers) really did their homework. I've seen this in many dyno tests of aftermarket pipes. They'll advertise and rave about a 5-6 hp increase. But that's PEAK increase, even if it's in just ONE area of the rpm range, but you could lose 1-3 hp in many other areas of the rpm range, so it may not be worth it. I agree, unless you can see a dyno plot that show it consistently give more power throughout the rpm range, if you just want a more sporty exhaust sound, but change the mufflers and tips! That shouldn't cost more than $300 or so.

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

[quote name='Driver72']I don't know about much cheaper. I went to the Borla website and they had cat back systems that were running $900. Some were as low as $600 but then considering installation....Obviously they wouldn't price it at exactly what it cost them, they did it to make money. I figure they added $200-250 onto what it cost them. But, like what has already been said, the stock LGT exhaust is probably as good as you are going to get without an intake and retune of the ECU. Without that, you probably won't get more than 1 hp gain from the aftermarket pipe. And it's VERY possible you could LOSE some power in certain areas of the rpm range, unless Borla (and other aftermarket makers) really did their homework. I've seen this in many dyno tests of aftermarket pipes. They'll advertise and rave about a 5-6 hp increase. But that's PEAK increase, even if it's in just ONE area of the rpm range, but you could lose 1-3 hp in many other areas of the rpm range, so it may not be worth it. I agree, unless you can see a dyno plot that show it consistently give more power throughout the rpm range, if you just want a more sporty exhaust sound, but change the mufflers and tips! That shouldn't cost more than $300 or so.[/quote] Agreed, but I'll bet changing the mufflers will cost more than 300.

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='jedimaster'][quote name='Driver72']I don't know about much cheaper. I went to the Borla website and they had cat back systems that were running $900. Some were as low as $600 but then considering installation....Obviously they wouldn't price it at exactly what it cost them, they did it to make money. I figure they added $200-250 onto what it cost them. But, like what has already been said, the stock LGT exhaust is probably as good as you are going to get without an intake and retune of the ECU. Without that, you probably won't get more than 1 hp gain from the aftermarket pipe. And it's VERY possible you could LOSE some power in certain areas of the rpm range, unless Borla (and other aftermarket makers) really did their homework. I've seen this in many dyno tests of aftermarket pipes. They'll advertise and rave about a 5-6 hp increase. But that's PEAK increase, even if it's in just ONE area of the rpm range, but you could lose 1-3 hp in many other areas of the rpm range, so it may not be worth it. I agree, unless you can see a dyno plot that show it consistently give more power throughout the rpm range, if you just want a more sporty exhaust sound, but change the mufflers and tips! That shouldn't cost more than $300 or so.[/quote] Agreed, but I'll bet changing the mufflers will cost more than 300.[/quote] Attach straight pipes where the mufflers should attach and put the stock tips on that. Nice sound with minimal money while still achieving that stock look. :twisted:

[BoxerGT2.5]

[quote name='Driver72']I don't know about much cheaper. I went to the Borla website and they had cat back systems that were running $900. Some were as low as $600 but then considering installation....Obviously they wouldn't price it at exactly what it cost them, they did it to make money. I figure they added $200-250 onto what it cost them. But, like what has already been said, the stock LGT exhaust is probably as good as you are going to get without an intake and retune of the ECU. Without that, you probably won't get more than 1 hp gain from the aftermarket pipe. And it's VERY possible you could LOSE some power in certain areas of the rpm range, unless Borla (and other aftermarket makers) really did their homework. I've seen this in many dyno tests of aftermarket pipes. They'll advertise and rave about a 5-6 hp increase. But that's PEAK increase, even if it's in just ONE area of the rpm range, but you could lose 1-3 hp in many other areas of the rpm range, so it may not be worth it. I agree, unless you can see a dyno plot that show it consistently give more power throughout the rpm range, if you just want a more sporty exhaust sound, but change the mufflers and tips! That shouldn't cost more than $300 or so.[/quote] Don't go by what Borla quotes as a price...they are high and that is suggested retail. The list my cat-back exhaust for the Rx-8 at $797.00. I got it for $565 at hopupracing. Trust me...the dealer bent the person over on that one. :)

[rao]

If Borla sells it then Summit Racing sells it and they will have it for a great price. Anybody have a part number for it?

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

I like that idea- still hafta have the pipes bent though- that can't be too expensive. [quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='jedimaster'][quote name='Driver72']I don't know about much cheaper. I went to the Borla website and they had cat back systems that were running $900. Some were as low as $600 but then considering installation....Obviously they wouldn't price it at exactly what it cost them, they did it to make money. I figure they added $200-250 onto what it cost them. But, like what has already been said, the stock LGT exhaust is probably as good as you are going to get without an intake and retune of the ECU. Without that, you probably won't get more than 1 hp gain from the aftermarket pipe. And it's VERY possible you could LOSE some power in certain areas of the rpm range, unless Borla (and other aftermarket makers) really did their homework. I've seen this in many dyno tests of aftermarket pipes. They'll advertise and rave about a 5-6 hp increase. But that's PEAK increase, even if it's in just ONE area of the rpm range, but you could lose 1-3 hp in many other areas of the rpm range, so it may not be worth it. I agree, unless you can see a dyno plot that show it consistently give more power throughout the rpm range, if you just want a more sporty exhaust sound, but change the mufflers and tips! That shouldn't cost more than $300 or so.[/quote] Agreed, but I'll bet changing the mufflers will cost more than 300.[/quote] Attach straight pipes where the mufflers should attach and put the stock tips on that. Nice sound with minimal money while still achieving that stock look. :twisted:[/quote]

[Driver72]

[quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='jedimaster'][quote name='Driver72']I don't know about much cheaper. I went to the Borla website and they had cat back systems that were running $900. Some were as low as $600 but then considering installation....Obviously they wouldn't price it at exactly what it cost them, they did it to make money. I figure they added $200-250 onto what it cost them. But, like what has already been said, the stock LGT exhaust is probably as good as you are going to get without an intake and retune of the ECU. Without that, you probably won't get more than 1 hp gain from the aftermarket pipe. And it's VERY possible you could LOSE some power in certain areas of the rpm range, unless Borla (and other aftermarket makers) really did their homework. I've seen this in many dyno tests of aftermarket pipes. They'll advertise and rave about a 5-6 hp increase. But that's PEAK increase, even if it's in just ONE area of the rpm range, but you could lose 1-3 hp in many other areas of the rpm range, so it may not be worth it. I agree, unless you can see a dyno plot that show it consistently give more power throughout the rpm range, if you just want a more sporty exhaust sound, but change the mufflers and tips! That shouldn't cost more than $300 or so.[/quote] Agreed, but I'll bet changing the mufflers will cost more than 300.[/quote] Attach straight pipes where the mufflers should attach and put the stock tips on that. Nice sound with minimal money while still achieving that stock look. :twisted:[/quote] That might make it a bit too loud though. Not sure. Or another way too, swap out the stock mufflers for the Borla or similiar and attach the stock tips to those mufflers. Would keep the stock look, but add an aggressive sound.