Deer Killer Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Did they say what kind of launch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 That is crazy. I had to go out & drive both cars again just to see if I was missing something. No I wasn't. I like my GT better than my TSX. I cannot wait for the magazine, so they can tell me what makes the TSX that much better than the GT, that it makes up for the shortfall in HP and AWD. I cannot certainly find it. Unless they give a ranking to "valet-preference", I just can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Ski Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='rao']None of this should suprise anyone. Look for even better deals on Legacys in a few months...... At least there are now some some performance numbers for the Legacy GT which seem to be right on the money.[/quote] This surprises me, unless you all know something I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 The market has already spoken, the new Legacy is not attracting droves of buyers. I may think it is a great car and you may think it is a great car and it may be a great car, but most people don't think about it or Subaru at all, and that is the problem for Subaru. That Car and driver would not prefer it to the Acura is not a suprise becaues they think the TSX is amazing, incredible and other-wordly. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Ski Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Did C&D trash the GT, or just like the others better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Yay! then there will be no price increase for the 2006 models. Maybe Subaru will throw in extras too! whoohooo!!! sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Okay, this is really disappointing news. I've driven the Volvo S40 T5 and from a pure handling and driving perspective, there's just no way it comes close to the Legacy GT. It makes me wonder what other parameters they based the comparo on. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Yeah I would really like to see what they didn't like about the GT. Deffinetly couldn't have knocked off points for performance as the GT beats all those cars easily. As for exterior looks besides maybe the TSX, the GT looks better then all those. And as for the interior I think its atleast on par with all of those other cars. I really like the GT's interior. So I don't really see what C&D was smoking that day, I mean I know they are Honda/Acura's whores, but the Volvo??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='rao']The market has already spoken, the new Legacy is not attracting droves of buyers. I may think it is a great car and you may think it is a great car and it may be a great car, but most people don't think about it or Subaru at all, and that is the problem for Subaru. [/quote] Unfortunately, this is true. When people ask me what car I bought, and I tell them "Subaru", they say, "Ohhh...that's nice....Subaru". Other than the enthusiast, the general public just has not warmed up to Subaru yet. Or maybe it is just the "material" Northeast here where driving a premier brand car is the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 look at it this way, it beat it's fellow AWD rival - Audi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguylehigh Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='wunderkind']look at it this way, it beat it's fellow AWD rival - Audi![/quote] True, but when Volvo introduces its AWD S40, it will be that much better again than the Legacy, since the FWD version beat the Legacy. Is it bad news? Yeah, it isnt a feather in their cap, but I would rarely consider what car I bought based on Car and Driver. I would listen to the british mags more, where the outback legacy beat out the new s40 estate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='rao']The market has already spoken, the new Legacy is not attracting droves of buyers. I may think it is a great car and you may think it is a great car and it may be a great car, but most people don't think about it or Subaru at all, and that is the problem for Subaru. That Car and driver would not prefer it to the Acura is not a suprise becaues they think the TSX is amazing, incredible and other-wordly.[/quote] Dude, the market didn't attract droves of buyers to the TSX either. I hardly see any of them on the road and I live in the car capital of the country...Los Angeles. LA residents buy more cars than any other city. I don't remember the last time I saw a TSX on the road. Sales figures aren't an excuse to put a car first. If that was the case, the Audi A4 would of won. If it was "valet preference" the Audi A4 would have won. If it was interior fit and finish, the Audi A4 would have won. Now if it was small cramped spaces, FWD, underpowered by 25+ hp and needing Honda underpinnings, then I understand how the TSX "won." It's a joke really. I think Car and Driver needs a wake up call. We all should email them and tell them they need to change the title of their car magazine, because they surely didn't rate the cars based on "driving" enthusiasts. Only when testing luxury cars like the Lexus LS430 and even higher end luxury cars should "luxury" be a factor in the win. Anybody shopping for the TSX surely isn't looking for "luxury." They're looking for a nice looking small sedan with reasonable power, nice interior amenities, and great reliability. They aren't looking for a "drivers" car and surely aren't looking for a car that will out run it's competition, because it CAN'T! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Most people have Subaru pigeonholed (if they think about it at all) as a kind of plain-Jane practical but dull vehicle. My office manager was saying she needed a new car and was thinking of buying a new van. I took her out to see my new LGT wagon and her response , after oohing and aahing a bit, was "Now, this is a SUBARU???" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Yeah, I'm sure Car and Driver rated the Subaru low because it's a Subaru. All the other cars come from "premium" nameplates. That's stretching it still for the TSX, which is just a renamed Japanese Honda Accord. But in Car and Driver's eye, it was 3 premium cars against a Subaru. Based on that way of thinking from the get go, they knocked points off the Subaru right away and kept that fact in the back of their minds the whole time. With that in mind, the only reason they didn't give the Audi A4 higher points than the Subaru, was because they KNEW they couldn't justify the Audi's less than stellar performance numbers, combined with it's higher price, and the fact it's coming up on 3 years old as a reason to overlook the Subaru's performance potential. They KNEW they would recieve WAY to much protest to putting the best performing car in last place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallguylehigh Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='Driver72'][quote name='rao']The market has already spoken, the new Legacy is not attracting droves of buyers. I may think it is a great car and you may think it is a great car and it may be a great car, but most people don't think about it or Subaru at all, and that is the problem for Subaru. That Car and driver would not prefer it to the Acura is not a suprise becaues they think the TSX is amazing, incredible and other-wordly.[/quote] Dude, the market didn't attract droves of buyers to the TSX either. I hardly see any of them on the road and I live in the car capital of the country...Los Angeles. LA residents buy more cars than any other city. I don't remember the last time I saw a TSX on the road. Sales figures aren't an excuse to put a car first. If that was the case, the Audi A4 would of won. If it was "valet preference" the Audi A4 would have won. If it was interior fit and finish, the Audi A4 would have won. Now if it was small cramped spaces, FWD, underpowered by 25+ hp and needing Honda underpinnings, then I understand how the TSX "won." It's a joke really. I think Car and Driver needs a wake up call. We all should email them and tell them they need to change the title of their car magazine, because they surely didn't rate the cars based on "driving" enthusiasts. Only when testing luxury cars like the Lexus LS430 and even higher end luxury cars should "luxury" be a factor in the win. Anybody shopping for the TSX surely isn't looking for "luxury." They're looking for a nice looking small sedan with reasonable power, nice interior amenities, and great reliability. They aren't looking for a "drivers" car and surely aren't looking for a car that will out run it's competition, because it CAN'T![/quote] When the TSX came out, there were waiting lists to get one of these cars- that is a FACT. Honda struck a chord with the market with this car- I remember before it came out people were already reading the last rites, then when it came out people quieted down. You dont see too many TSX's because they only import a very small amount, like less than 30,000 units small. I am sure thar Car and Driver is going to rave about the quality of the TSX's interior, and the design flair of the Volvo (both of which are true), maybe something about how the TSX is "light on its feet" or something like that. Another thing that a lot of people arent going to admit on this forum, but if you are in a comparison test with a Honda/Acura, you will want to test automatics, because Honda shifters are just too slick- I'm sorry but its true, compared to a Honda shifter, I'm sure the Subaru's and everyone elses felt bulky. I for one am becoming less and less of a fan of C&D. I am starting to gravitate towards the British mags, which give excellent articles on driving synamics, not how many millimeters the anti-roll bars have been increased. In that case, the Subie beat out everyone but a Jag in an estate comparo. Sorry C&D, but you guys are getting old and cushy up there. As for me, I love my Legacy, and I think an onslaught of Legacy owners protesting might be the kind of loyalty Subaru needs to sell the Legacy, NOT a comparo win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatV8 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 I have seen STOCK Forester XT's run 13.9's at the tracks. The forester is underrated in its power, plus you all have to remember its short gearing. [url]www.subaruforester.com[/url] have a look around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='Driver72']Yeah, I'm sure Car and Driver rated the Subaru low because it's a Subaru. All the other cars come from "premium" nameplates. That's stretching it still for the TSX, which is just a renamed Japanese Honda Accord. But in Car and Driver's eye, it was 3 premium cars against a Subaru. Based on that way of thinking from the get go, they knocked points off the Subaru right away and kept that fact in the back of their minds the whole time. With that in mind, the only reason they didn't give the Audi A4 higher points than the Subaru, was because they KNEW they couldn't justify the Audi's less than stellar performance numbers, combined with it's higher price, and the fact it's coming up on 3 years old as a reason to overlook the Subaru's performance potential. They KNEW they would recieve WAY to much protest to putting the best performing car in last place![/quote] On the other hand, they did a comparo of the wrx (NOT sti) with a BMW330xi and an S4, and 2 out of 3 editors said they preferred the wrx irrespective of its enormous price advantage. The wrx was pathbreaking, the legacy much less so. And it looks good but it doesn't look HOT. The wrx plays off the rally car, the legaacy doesn't. It doesn't generate the same kind of excitement the wrx did, so it's not getting the attention and praise the wrx did. People have called the LGT a sleeper. I think it's such a sleeper that even the folks at C&D didn't really see it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubie02 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Geezes, don't be writing and complaining, it'll just make legacy owners look like alot of whiners! what do you care what the mags say? And we don't even know for a FACT that this is the outcome, just what was heard from somebody else. Anyway, if less sell as far as I'm concerned than that just ups the exclusivity factor which is fine with me, and maybe keeps prices down for next time I want to buy. There's nothing wrong with those other cars. The S40 is a HUGE step up from the last one, and I do like both the interior (love the "floating" console thing) and exterior. Though the interior besides the console thingy is actually pretty dull. But the fact is its pretty pricey and the performance isn't there for the cost, so I couldn't justify it. Volvo's also haven't been super reliable in the past, but possibly the Ford/Mazda underpinnings will help that out in the S40. Still, hard to justifythe S40 when you could get a loaded Mazda 3 for less money and arguably its just as nice or nicer. The TSX is also a slick car, and I also like its looks. But the rumors of transmission problems and myriad squeaks and rattles would make me shy away. Guess I'm just secure in my Legacy-hood. Really, guys, relax. The times are a bit disappointing but still not BAD--its trapping right there with a wrx time wise only at higher speed, and this is he FIRST review, if the report is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Why all the hand wringing and angst over C&D's ranking and opinion of the Legacy GT? Isn't it enough that you like the car? Is validation from C&D really necessary for everyone to be happy with their purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-2.5-GT Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Not in the least for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='tallguylehigh'] When the TSX came out, there were waiting lists to get one of these cars- that is a FACT. Honda struck a chord with the market with this car- I remember before it came out people were already reading the last rites, then when it came out people quieted down. You dont see too many TSX's because they only import a very small amount, like less than 30,000 units small. I am sure thar Car and Driver is going to rave about the quality of the TSX's interior, and the design flair of the Volvo (both of which are true), maybe something about how the TSX is "light on its feet" or something like that. Another thing that a lot of people arent going to admit on this forum, but if you are in a comparison test with a Honda/Acura, you will want to test automatics, because Honda shifters are just too slick- I'm sorry but its true, compared to a Honda shifter, I'm sure the Subaru's and everyone elses felt bulky. I for one am becoming less and less of a fan of C&D. I am starting to gravitate towards the British mags, which give excellent articles on driving synamics, not how many millimeters the anti-roll bars have been increased. In that case, the Subie beat out everyone but a Jag in an estate comparo. Sorry C&D, but you guys are getting old and cushy up there. As for me, I love my Legacy, and I think an onslaught of Legacy owners protesting might be the kind of loyalty Subaru needs to sell the Legacy, NOT a comparo win.[/quote] It's interesting to note also that prior to the Legacy launch, C&D had some mention of it in their preview section. I recall even reading a comment "What would an issue of C&D be without some mention of the Legacy" or something to that extent. It appeared that they were pretty excited about it. And once it came out, nada. It's strange how the Legacy does so well in overseas publications, but not here. Good point about the shifter, though. It might have been to Subarus advantage to have tested automatics, especially with the power spread. The 5EAT is a pretty good unit vs. the competition while the 5MT is average. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 The reason Hondas shifters "feel" better then subarus is because of the design. Honda uses the weaker cable shifting. Subaru uses the strong linkage shifter, which I actually perfer, it gives better feedback. I have driven a few hondas and although its nice and soft, I wouldn't want that in a fast car like the LGT, just takes away to much of the pleasure of driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 I'm with Scubie02 and outahere... Although I'd have liked C&D to go gaga over it, it ain't gonna matter. I've driven all that other stuff and for me, the GT is the winner. And that's really all that matters for any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_hunter Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='Driver72'][quote name='rao']The market has already spoken, the new Legacy is not attracting droves of buyers. I may think it is a great car and you may think it is a great car and it may be a great car, but most people don't think about it or Subaru at all, and that is the problem for Subaru. That Car and driver would not prefer it to the Acura is not a suprise becaues they think the TSX is amazing, incredible and other-wordly.[/quote] Dude, the market didn't attract droves of buyers to the TSX either. I hardly see any of them on the road and I live in the car capital of the country...Los Angeles. LA residents buy more cars than any other city. I don't remember the last time I saw a TSX on the road.[/quote] You are way off on that one -- I think Acura sold twice as many TSX as they were expecting, in fact they had to boost output at the factory to meet demand. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_hunter Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 [quote name='kanoswrx']The reason Hondas shifters "feel" better then subarus is because of the design. Honda uses the weaker cable shifting. Subaru uses the strong linkage shifter, which I actually perfer, it gives better feedback. I have driven a few hondas and although its nice and soft, I wouldn't want that in a fast car like the LGT, just takes away to much of the pleasure of driving.[/quote] Some of the best shifters around (including some from Honda) use a direct linkage shifter and are better than Subaru's shifter. Personally, I was underwhelmed by the shifter in the Legacy. It was not nearly as precise and direct as the shifter in my WRX, and that was obviously no gem itself. Honda shifters, no matter what type of linkage they use, are about the best around, and the shifter in the TSX is the cream of the crop. It's about as good as the shifter in the S2000. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.