Comments about the Spec B

[rfd425]

I asked him for clarification.

I provided it.

[SC GT]

I got the rotor information from this forum, so I can't validate it's truth.

I think the man said that now the rotors were vented (in back) where they may have been solid before. Also, the information on this forum suggests that the Spec B does have different pads, again I can't say yes or no as I'm forwarding that info.

 

The wheels are definately taller as they did keep tire width and ratio the same at 215/45. 215/45/17 OEM tires are 24" and the 215/45/18 are 25.7", which is a good deal more. I wonder if Suby did do some gearing changes or maybe adjusted the final drive? I don't have that data yet.

Also, ABS and AWD systems are sensitive to tire diameter. So, some changes had to have been made to accomodate the 1.7" change.

 

Now, as far as the taller wheel/tire package, the overall effect of acceleration and top speed would be changed IF, Suby didn't do any changes to the gearing, which I find hard to believe. The larger overall wheel diameter would give a higher top speed and lower the rpm at any given MPH. That's easy to check. If you have an LGT, what is your RPM at 60mph in 5th? Then, let's have someone with a Spec B list their RPM at 60mph in 5th. If the gearing is the same we should see a difference in RPM. If adjustments have been made then we should see nearly the same RPM. Are there different MPG ratings for the Spec B over the LGT?

 

Yes, a greater tire diameter results in "taller" gearing, which also has a "lower number".

Here is good explanation, after searching for one that explained clearly.

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/tech_gearing.htm

 

On larger wheels, the mass is moved outward from the center thus requiring more torque to move that wheel. That's why I don't care for larger and larger wheels. It's more a "tuner" cosmetic thing than worthy of performance. So, I am surprised that Subaru choose to keep the tire size as they did, yet the Spec B put up the best numbers of any Legacy tested, and those were real numbers not adjusted.

 

Overall, I wonder what the 35lb difference is? Can it simply be the

Wheels/tires and the NAV system? But then, the aluminum bits should have helped there as well.

If I get a Spec B, I will get tires that better match the 17" size, unless I find out that Suby has done some gearing changes to adjust for the larger 18" wheels.

 

T

• I doubt the Spec B has different pads. Suby America does not pay that kind of attention to detail. IMO, the Spec B stopped better because of its superior tires.
  
• There is absolutely no way Suby changed the gearing or final drive ratio to accommodate the larger diameter tires. That would have been too much work and too expensive for something with no performance benefit. All Suby needs to do is recalibrate the speedometer to account for the size differences.
  
• AFAIK, AWD is sensitive to variations in tire diameter. Different tire sizes or material differences in wear can screw up the differential. But since the Spec B's four tires are all the same size, the fact that they are taller than the regular LGT's tires should make no difference to the AWD system. The Spec B's tires shouldn't have any effect upon ABS. I don't even think mismatched tires would have any effect upon ABS, as there are plenty of cars with larger rear tires and ABS.
  
• Re increased weight, I understand that the aluminum bits aren't that much lighter than the stamped steel bits. The other benefit from aluminum bits is increased rigidity.

[Jon in CT]

If you had read the thread more closely, you would have realized that the major complaints about the pricing of the Spec B are related to (1) the fact that the LGT is available for $1,500 under invoice, ...

Who's selling the 2006 Legacy GT for $1,500 under dealer invoice?

[rfd425]

']Who's selling the 2006 Legacy GT for $1' date='500 under dealer invoice?[/quote']That's including the $1,500 factory incentive.

[aldo ixnay]

Then, let's have someone with a Spec B list their RPM at 60mph in 5th.

 

Spec B is a hair shy of 2500rpm at 60mph in 5th gear.

[rjoeser]

I am a little late on the thread,but here goes. I got my Spec B for 32,500. Have you guys priced nice 18" rims and the pretty competent rubber that subaru has placed on these rims? The leather trim is cool and the paint job you gotta admit blows away the other offered on legacy's. Handling is better, (still needs a stiffer rear sway and links). Nav is a 2K option no matter who makes it. I would not have bought it if it did not come on the car but, suprisingly, I love it. The way I see it I paid 4k more a solid 4k more in looks and options.

Subaru is testing the water I bet to give us the real deal in a pumped up legacy in a few years.

I drove the mazda,lexus and a4, this car is WAY more fun.

 

Rick

[rfd425]

I am a little late on the thread,but here goes. I got my Spec B for 32,500. Have you guys priced nice 18" rims and the pretty competent rubber that subaru has placed on these rims? The leather trim is cool and the paint job you gotta admit blows away the other offered on legacy's. Handling is better, (still needs a stiffer rear sway and links). Nav is a 2K option no matter who makes it. I would not have bought it if it did not come on the car but, suprisingly, I love it. The way I see it I paid 4k more a solid 4k more in looks and options.

32.5K is a great price! I don't think anyone would tell you that is overpriced, although I'd personally rather save $2K and do without the nav. Better yet, I'd rather save $1,300 and get the performance gauge pack instead of the nav, or even apply the extra money to an STi pink spring option, and slightly upgraged brakes. But still, you got a great car at a great price.

[krzyss]

I have a question.

Since we agree that Spec B has larger tire/wheel combo let's check Subaru attention to detail.

 

What kind of temporary spare do GT and Spec B have? Is it the same tire or not?

 

Krzys

[GT2.5]

Yeah, GT2.5, I figured out that you don't own a Spec B. Notice that I edited my post a few minutes later. Let's consider it a wash with your mistake about the LGT's weight.

 

I was very polite when we started this little sub-thread discussion, but I lost my patience when you kept grasping at inconsistent arguments to justify your point. I understand your logic just fine, but it is NOT valid, at least not the part where a Spec B is only $2,600 more than a comparably equipped LGT limited. And I'm not going to just let it go when I don't agree, because you are coming on the forum and posting information that is not accurate.

 

Again, if this is a gag, you got me pretty good. I'm starting to find it hard to believe that this is real.

 

I didn't realize you were keeping score.

 

Losing your patience is not my intent, and it's something only you can deal with. If you lost your patience, then you should have stopped before you started flaming.

 

I NEVER made any direct purchase cost comparison, ever. I think that is the part you are having trouble with. My comments are NOT about how much the cars can actually be purchased for, that's the point YOU have been maintaining, and I understand that. My comments are about how much Subaru charges for the Spec B above the price of a LGT limited.

I'm trying to show that the Spec B is pretty reasonbly priced over the LGT limted.

 

Please, don't be back handed in your insults by trying to suggest that my comments are so out of whack that it MUST be a joke.

If you don't want to understand my point then simply back off and don't respond, it won't do any good to try and make this personal.

[GT2.5]

• I doubt the Spec B has different pads. Suby America does not pay that kind of attention to detail. IMO, the Spec B stopped better because of its superior tires.
  
• There is absolutely no way Suby changed the gearing or final drive ratio to accommodate the larger diameter tires. That would have been too much work and too expensive for something with no performance benefit. All Suby needs to do is recalibrate the speedometer to account for the size differences.
  
• AFAIK, AWD is sensitive to variations in tire diameter. Different tire sizes or material differences in wear can screw up the differential. But since the Spec B's four tires are all the same size, the fact that they are taller than the regular LGT's tires should make no difference to the AWD system. The Spec B's tires shouldn't have any effect upon ABS. I don't even think mismatched tires would have any effect upon ABS, as there are plenty of cars with larger rear tires and ABS.
  
• Re increased weight, I understand that the aluminum bits aren't that much lighter than the stamped steel bits. The other benefit from aluminum bits is increased rigidity.

 

Thanks for the info.

Do you a source for this information?

 

ABS is calibrated to work with the tire size as given. Tire size nearly 2" larger in diameter could pose a problem if the system is not recalibrated.

That's my initial thinking as I read the Spec B spec's. I'll look into it further to see what I can find.

 

What cars have larger rear tires than the front?

But, by larger do you mean wider? If so, then yes, there are some cars that have wider rear tires, but not larger in diameter. BMW has quite a few models that have staggered size setup, but the rears are typically wider not larger in diameter.

 

I agree about the AWD working with the same size tires all around.

 

I'll have to find the thread on here the discusses different pad material.

As I said, I don't have direct knowledge of this.

 

However, the gearing issue is quite interesting. There would be a difference in accel. times if the gearing is the same. If the 18" wheels/tires are indeed heavier than the 17", and the 18's are 1.7" taller overall, it's astounding that the Spec B achieved the accel times it did get.

Larger diameter tires, overall, result in slower acceleration. If they were lighter than the 17" setup, then some of that slower accel could be offset.

However, it's been speculated on here, that the 18's are heavier.

So, it doesn't make sense.

 

Also, they can recalibrate the speed, but if the gearing is the same, and the tires are a larger diameter, engine rpm will be different at a given speed compared to a LGT at the same speed. We need some Spec B owners to give us their engine rpm at a given speed. What RPM is shown on a Spec B at 60mph in 5th? What RPM si shown on an LGT at 60mph in 5th?

 

The recent R&T article does show the Spec B gear ratio's. Has anyone seen the gear ratio's for the LGT manual?

 

The weight has to be all the little things added such as NAV, spoilers/ground effects. etc... The aluminum parts are a real bonus as they are suspension bits, and reduction in weight there gives great returns in terms of performance. Still, when compared to other cars of it's ilk the Spec B and LGT are pretty "light weight", even at around 3400lbs.

 

T

[GT2.5]

repost, sorry.

[GT2.5]

Spec B is a hair shy of 2500rpm at 60mph in 5th gear.

 

Cool, thanks.

 

So, we can call it 2500rpm at 60mph in 5th gear for the Spec B.

What is the rpm at 60mph in 5th for a LGT manual?

 

T

[GT2.5]

Here's another interesting tidbit of info. I gathered as I read the R&T article, again, last night. The Spec B curb weight was not 3400lbs.

I don't remeber the exact number, but it was something like 3345lbs.?

 

I should have written it down. Does anyone have the article handy and can post the Spec B curb weight?

 

T

[SC GT]

Thanks for the info.

Do you a source for this information?

 

ABS is calibrated to work with the tire size as given. Tire size nearly 2" larger in diameter could pose a problem if the system is not recalibrated.

That's my initial thinking as I read the Spec B spec's. I'll look into it further to see what I can find.

 

What cars have larger rear tires than the front?

But, by larger do you mean wider? If so, then yes, there are some cars that have wider rear tires, but not larger in diameter. BMW has quite a few models that have staggered size setup, but the rears are typically wider not larger in diameter.

 

I agree about the AWD working with the same size tires all around.

 

I'll have to find the thread on here the discusses different pad material.

As I said, I don't have direct knowledge of this.

 

However, the gearing issue is quite interesting. There would be a difference in accel. times if the gearing is the same. If the 18" wheels/tires are indeed heavier than the 17", and the 18's are 1.7" taller overall, it's astounding that the Spec B achieved the accel times it did get.

Larger diameter tires, overall, result in slower acceleration. If they were lighter than the 17" setup, then some of that slower accel could be offset.

However, it's been speculated on here, that the 18's are heavier.

So, it doesn't make sense.

 

Also, they can recalibrate the speed, but if the gearing is the same, and the tires are a larger diameter, engine rpm will be different at a given speed compared to a LGT at the same speed. We need some Spec B owners to give us their engine rpm at a given speed. What RPM is shown on a Spec B at 60mph in 5th? What RPM si shown on an LGT at 60mph in 5th?

 

The recent R&T article does show the Spec B gear ratio's. Has anyone seen the gear ratio's for the LGT manual?

 

The weight has to be all the little things added such as NAV, spoilers/ground effects. etc... The aluminum parts are a real bonus as they are suspension bits, and reduction in weight there gives great returns in terms of performance. Still, when compared to other cars of it's ilk the Spec B and LGT are pretty "light weight", even at around 3400lbs.

 

T

Didn't do any exhaustive search regarding cars with different wheel and tire sizes. Just went to Edmunds and checked out the 350Z Track version. Front tires are 245/40/18, rears are 265/40/19. That alone should tell you there is over an inch difference in tire diameter (actually a 1.7" difference).

 

You'll just have to trust me on the gearing issue. Subaru didn't bother to give us aux inputs on our radios, memory seats with the electric seat adjustments, or even a holder for our gas caps. I seriously doubt they would have bumped up the price of the Spec B just to change the gearing to account for a 1" difference in tire diameter.

 

I don't know anything about ABS. I just don't see how a uniform increase in tire diameter on all four corners would make a difference.

[GT2.5]

Didn't do any exhaustive search regarding cars with different wheel and tire sizes. Just went to Edmunds and checked out the 350Z Track version. Front tires are 245/40/18, rears are 265/40/19. That alone should tell you there is over an inch difference in tire diameter (actually a 1.7" difference).

 

You'll just have to trust me on the gearing issue. Subaru didn't bother to give us aux inputs on our radios, memory seats with the electric seat adjustments, or even a holder for our gas caps. I seriously doubt they would have bumped up the price of the Spec B just to change the gearing to account for a 1" difference in tire diameter.

 

I don't know anything about ABS. I just don't see how a uniform increase in tire diameter on all four corners would make a difference.

 

Yes, you are correct, the Z has larger rears than the front; 25.7" Frt and 26.3-26.4" Rr, which is .6" to .7" larger in the rear. I think Edmunds gave the wrong tire size. Tire-rack lists the rear as a 265/35/19.

I was more curious as to what AWD cars have larger rears than the front. My point wasn't that it can't be done, it's that when it is done in AWD it is calibrated for it.

I did some looking at the Tirerack and the Carrera 4 also runs a larger diameter rear than the front, and it's AWD.

Thus, I stand corrected on my comment. I don't know what I was thinking! Sorry.

 

The Spec B has 1.7" larger diameter over the LGT 17" wheel/tires.

That's why I was wondering if the larger diameter tires of the Spec B required Suby to change some calibrations for the ABS as well as the AWD setup.

 

Still, more importantly I'd like to know about the gearing.

It's not the I do not trust, as I do not even know you.

Do you have an LGT with manual?

If so, can you post the engine RPM at 60mph in 5th gear?

 

T

[2006Specb122]

I don't think you have to change anything in the AWD system for the subaru if you change the tires/rims.

 

The only requirement is that all four are the same.

[ilh]

The Spec B has 1.7" larger diameter over the LGT 17" wheel/tires.

How did you get that? Aren't they 215/45/18 vs. 215/45/17?

[SC GT]

Still, more importantly I'd like to know about the gearing.

It's not the I do not trust, as I do not even know you.

Do you have an LGT with manual?

If so, can you post the engine RPM at 60mph in 5th gear?

 

T

I would but it wouldn't do you any good since I'm running 225/45/18s.

 

And I was surprised re the staggered size of the Porsche AWD. Like you, I was under the impression that all AWD cars needed identical sized tires. As far as Suby's AWD system goes, that is a strict rule. The only reason why I brought that up is because I misunderstood/mixed up the point you raised regarding Suby probabaly having to recalibrate the ABS and your comment re AWD tire sizes.

[GT2.5]

I don't think you have to change anything in the AWD system for the subaru if you change the tires/rims.

 

The only requirement is that all four are the same.

 

I think you're right.

 

I'm still looking for gearing info. though.

 

BTW, I still have the $500 under invoice offer from one dealer, invoice from another, and 1 who says he can't sell a "rare" car for invoice and make money.

 

T

[praedet]

1. Actual gear ratios in the 5MT are the same between Spec-B and GT...

2. Brake Pads are different between Spec-B and GT...

3. Legacy/Outback ECU has a switch for two different diameter tires, it can be switched to keep the Speedo/odometer accurate...

4. Shorter gearing does not always make for faster acceleration depending on powerband, shift points, and available traction...

 

If you don't believe me on the first 3, start looking up part numbers or ask Opie. If you don't believe me on the last one then start looking at the gearing on supercars.

 

Ted

[GT2.5]

1. Actual gear ratios in the 5MT are the same between Spec-B and GT...

2. Brake Pads are different between Spec-B and GT...

3. Legacy/Outback ECU has a switch for two different diameter tires, it can be switched to keep the Speedo/odometer accurate...

4. Shorter gearing does not always make for faster acceleration depending on powerband, shift points, and available traction...

 

If you don't believe me on the first 3, start looking up part numbers or ask Opie. If you don't believe me on the last one then start looking at the gearing on supercars.

 

Ted

 

I believe you.

Interesting. And, what about the final drive gear?

 

If everything is the same, there should be a slight difference in engine rpm, given a recalibrated speedo, between the LGT and Spec B.

If the 1.7" difference is correct the difference will be greater, if it's around 1" it should be less.

 

As for the "shorter" gearing, all things being equal, acceleration should be faster. Now, of course the other variables you mention will change things.

But then, driver skill is a variable as well, and in terms of acceleration driver skill can be a bigger factor than some other things.

There's a saying that the best way to increase performance is to increase you driving skills. So true.

 

T

[aldo ixnay]

3. Legacy/Outback ECU has a switch for two different diameter tires, it can be switched to keep the Speedo/odometer accurate...

 

Ted

 

Short Hijack: Would Cobb's Accessport overwrite these values in the ECU by any chance and put the switch back to 17"s? I sent them an E-mail and their response was not for the question I asked really. Wanted to know before purchasing. Furthermore, can anyone speculate on whether there would be any changes to the ECU between an LGT and a Spec B that would not get put back into the ECU if I went to unmarry the AP and it wrote a generic '06 LGT map back to the ECU. (ie... NAV and tire values)

[rfd425]

The B version when equipped as comparably as possible to the LGT limited is ONLY $2631 more.

I NEVER made any direct purchase cost comparison, ever.

 

 

http://www.msprotege.com:8080/smilies/blah.gif

I've had enough of this. I wish I could get back the hour of my life I've wasted responding to your dopey posts. You can have the last word.

[GT2.5]

 

 

 

I've had enough of this. I wish I could get back the hour of my life I've wasted responding to your dopey posts. You can have the last word.

 

 

Hmmm, even more insults.

Here's my last word.

Your avatar suits your attitude.

 

T

[JohnG]

Here is my solution for the lack of a Spec B logo on the car. The motto on the plate reflects my opinion of the Spec B: "Nothing Could Be Finer!"