Trading the LGT in on Tuesday

[Sneezy]

I needed something bigger and the list of flaws kept me from trading on a wagon. I don't feel like getting into the whole story about it either. I've complained enough.

 

I pick up a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with a Hemi on Tuesday. I leased this time which is smarter for me in the long run. (company car, I lease it from my company for personal use, company pays for gas, maintenance ect, I just pay for mileage )

 

Now maybe I can talk the wife into that boat I want

 

regardless of it's flaws the LGT is one incredible car and I would still tell people to look at it when looking for a car. It has a lot of bang for the buck.

[rony]

Well, that sucks..

 

Hope you like your new car..

[gt_ltd]

pics of said boat?

[emorphien]

regardless of it's flaws the LGT is one incredible car and I would still tell people to look at it when looking for a car. It has a lot of bang for the buck.

Yup, I've never driven a perfect car and maybe one doesn't exist. I like the things the Legacy GT does well so much that I can overlook the things it doesn't do well. With any car that's usually how it is, do the goods outweigh the bads?

[wukindada]

Hold out & get the SRT8 Cherokee...buddy of mine gets his the first half of Feb...He purchased a 05 in August....Like you are looking @ 38,750...soon after his purchase he was not happy (performance wise) Now he is looking @ Cayenne TT Performance....

0-60 4.8....425 BHP.......44,500:)

[jc51373]

Should have bought a Tribeca...American cars suck ass.

[rporter]

Should have bought a Tribeca...American cars suck ass.

 

Well, to put it kindly, that's a pretty broad statement.

 

And not true. Yes, I love my LGT, but compared to better japanese cars (Honda, Toyota and related divisions), the LGT isn't better than the offerings of some US mfrs.

 

IMNSHO, "SUCK ASS" describes the Tribeca.....a MAJOR f-up on Subarus part, and it shows me why they can't break into the uppper echelon of the top car mfrs.

 

If any of the Hemi cars had a manual box, I would be there TODAY.

[emorphien]

the LGT isn't better than the offerings of some US mfrs.

 

Hmm I'd have to disagree there. (having had some experience in that department)

[jc51373]

The Tribeca is a nice stab at the SUV market...First year of it, so we have to give it a chance. Personally, I like the looks of it, and the interior is very nice. Underpowered yes, but as nice as any of the upper eschelon. Definately better than an Explorer, Jeep product, or GMC Trailblazer.

 

 

As far as American cars, I challenge you to name one, that compares in with the Subaru LGT, or OUtback for that matter. And don't say the Magnum, that thing is crapola. Dodge are poorly put together, and about the only thing I would give them credit for is some of their motors. But they have been riding the same block for about 40 years, so no excuse not to get it right. Fit and finish on Chrysler in general are terrible IMO.

 

Honda, and Toyota are only considered the better of the Japanese is because they market well, subsidize their lease programs well, and flood the market with their product. Subaru does not, a flaw IMO. Nonetheless, I have owned nothing but Japanese cars (after bad early experiences with American brands), mostly Hondas (have an Accord to this day) and Toyotas, and this Subaru is better than all of them.

 

Hey man, beauty is in the eye of the buyer/owner. I personally think American cars suck, they are ugly, unreliable and poorly thought out. The car market here is doomed IMO..They keep trying to capitalize on the nostalgia market for a reason, because they can't think up any new ideas to compete with the Japanese. Good luck with yours though, I am sure it will do the job. I just personally wouldn't spend my hard earned $$ on one.

[LIZARD]

Should have bought a Tribeca...American cars suck ass.

:lol: .... When it comes to SUV type vehicles the US has it ALL OVER japan for quality, power, longevity, options, solidity, etc. etc. etc... I've owned my share of both US and Japan trucks/SUVs and its not my opinion, it's fact. To shell out $30,000++ for an underpowered-tinny sounding SUV is a bad deal all the way around. Not to mention the lack of MPG you settle for!! Friend of mine has the new Cherokee....nice ride, power, fit & finish. As for CARS, well, the Japs definitely have that market for $$, MPG,and longevity. The Tribeca.... well just saying the name is kinda silly, hearing it on TV from a dumpy blond spokeswoman even sillier, an ugly SUV IMO. However, I love my legacy!! 'nuff sed.

[rporter]

The Tribeca is a nice stab at the SUV market...First year of it, so we have to give it a chance. Personally, I like the looks of it, and the interior is very nice. Underpowered yes, but as nice as any of the upper eschelon. Definately better than an Explorer, Jeep product, or GMC Trailblazer.

 

 

As far as American cars, I challenge you to name one, that compares in with the Subaru LGT, or OUtback for that matter. And don't say the Magnum, that thing is crapola. Dodge are poorly put together, and about the only thing I would give them credit for is some of their motors. But they have been riding the same block for about 40 years, so no excuse not to get it right. Fit and finish on Chrysler in general are terrible IMO.

 

Honda, and Toyota are only considered the better of the Japanese is because they market well, subsidize their lease programs well, and flood the market with their product. Subaru does not, a flaw IMO. Nonetheless, I have owned nothing but Japanese cars (after bad early experiences with American brands), mostly Hondas (have an Accord to this day) and Toyotas, and this Subaru is better than all of them.

 

Hey man, beauty is in the eye of the buyer/owner. I personally think American cars suck, they are ugly, unreliable and poorly thought out. The car market here is doomed IMO..They keep trying to capitalize on the nostalgia market for a reason, because they can't think up any new ideas to compete with the Japanese. Good luck with yours though, I am sure it will do the job. I just personally wouldn't spend my hard earned $$ on one.

 

No. the Tribeca an absolutely piss-poor stab at the SUV market. Unfortunately, Subaru is falling into the trap of the US car mfrs. if you come up with a new model (like the LGT or the Tribeca), you have to be BETTER than the competition to get noticed. the LGT and Tribeca broke no new ground, and are "me too" cars. Granted, the LGT has the power (which attracted me, along with the 5MT), but mags like C&D got it right in their reviews. The car is nothing special WRT the competition.

 

You obviously have ZERO experience with the new DC Hemi cars (300C/Magnum/Charger). I have a friend with a 300C, and another with a Hemi Charger (which I've driven). These are excellent cars. Subaru should do as well, especially since these cars are comparably priced.

 

As Legacy Lizard mentioned in his post, US SUVs are the highwater mark for SUVs. If nothing else, US mfrs can do trucks and SUVs RIGHT.

 

I will not defend every US car, there are a lot that don't cut it. But, there are many new ones that are close to the best of japan and europe. I also do not paint Subaru with the 'high quality" japanese brush. This is my first Subaru (after many US, Japanese, and one German (911) cars over 40 years of driving), and, although I love my car, the LGT is not the epitome of japanese car building like Honda, Toyota and their relatives Acura and Lexus.

[jc51373]

:lol: .... When it comes to SUV type vehicles the US has it ALL OVER japan for quality, power, longevity, options, solidity, etc. etc. etc... I've owned my share of both US and Japan trucks/SUVs and its not my opinion, it's fact. To shell out $30,000++ for an underpowered-tinny sounding SUV is a bad deal all the way around. Not to mention the lack of MPG you settle for!! Friend of mine has the new Cherokee....nice ride, power, fit & finish. As for CARS, well, the Japs definitely have that market for $$, MPG,and longevity. The Tribeca.... well just saying the name is kinda silly, hearing it on TV from a dumpy blond spokeswoman even sillier, an ugly SUV IMO. However, I love my legacy!! 'nuff sed.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you here...I would agree with you if you said truck market, Americans build a better truck..The F-150 is a nice truck. But in the SUV market I think the Japanese have it bottled up too, at least where we live they do, I see alot more Japanese SUVs in NE..The Pilot, the MDX!, the RX330, the Highlander Hybrid (<<<Great Mileage). The list continues. I would rather drive any of those than a American brand. I actually sat in a new Explorer the other day, and the layout is silly. You sit in the car and you have to reach backwards to open the damn door, the dash is like a wall in front of you. Doesn't feel ergonomically correct, and doesn't flow well. This is supposed to be the best American SUV, and if so I think it is weak. Body designs look blocky and silly, like there is no attention paid to aerodynamics.

 

The Tribeca is nice, it is just underpowered. I don't know how much time you spent with it, but has a nice interior and feel to it. It just needs more development.

 

 

Even Toyota thinks highly of Subaru AWD systems, considering they just bought the minority ownership from GM, who is quickly sinking. I personally don't think there is any manufacturer that has a direct answer for Subarus line-up of crossovers and SUVs right now.

 

Obviously I am biased because I own one, but I too have had several American cars and they were all terrible. And I continually ride in them and I am amazed at how they just don't get it. They feel like crap on wheels. With the exception of the Corvette, but there lots of other cars I would buy before that too.

[rporter]

I have to respectfully disagree with you here...I would agree with you if you said truck market, Americans build a better truck..The F-150 is a nice truck. But in the SUV market I think the Japanese have it bottled up too, at least where we live they do, I see alot more Japanese SUVs in NE..The Pilot, the MDX!, the RX330, the Highlander Hybrid (<<<Great Mileage). The list continues. I would rather drive any of those than a American brand. I actually sat in a new Explorer the other day, and the layout is silly. You sit in the car and you have to reach backwards to open the damn door, the dash is like a wall in front of you. Doesn't feel ergonomically correct, and doesn't flow well. This is supposed to be the best American SUV, and if so I think it is weak. Body designs look blocky and silly, like there is no attention paid to aerodynamics.

 

The Tribeca is nice, it is just underpowered. I don't know how much time you spent with it, but has a nice interior and feel to it. It just needs more development.

 

 

Even Toyota thinks highly of Subaru AWD systems, considering they just bought the minority ownership from GM, who is quickly sinking. I personally don't think there is any manufacturer that has a direct answer for Subarus line-up of crossovers and SUVs right now.

 

Obviously I am biased because I own one, but I too have had several American cars and they were all terrible. And I continually ride in them and I am amazed at how they just don't get it. They feel like crap on wheels. With the exception of the Corvette, but there lots of other cars I would buy before that too.

 

Most of what you mention is personal prefernece on the vehicle's feaures. The basic functions of an SUV are to haul people, cargo, and trailers. US mfrs have it in spades. The SUVs you mention are good for people who need to haul those heavy loads from Costco.

 

The Tribeca has more problems than just being underpowered. Ugly is one, and interior space WRT the competition is another.

 

Please............Toyota bought GMs share of Fuji as an investment and to help two industry partners, not because of a product belief. To believe that Subaru has any kind of AWD expertise is to believe that Volvo as any kind of safety advantage. Pure marketing BS to try and dfferentiate their products.

 

"With the exception of the Corvette"?? You obviousl haven't owned one of those crap-buckets either!! After I said I would NEVER own another after the first, I got sucked in and bought a new Bowling Green car years ago. It just sucks less!! The Corvette is my "poster boy" for the crappy quality of US cars.....500+ HP or not.

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

Have fun feeding that Hemi and enjoy the 50K miles it'll last

[mmanus88]

i guess i'll chime in

 

i'm young, but i have had experience with both japanese and american cars. most of what i iwll say (less the LGT bit) is all impression. there was a period of a few months where my dad did not buy a car, but rented from a company until he could find a sedan he liked to buy. he went through a 2006 g6 sedan and 2003 ford taurus. both of these cars were complete shit, not worth half the money the american companies would want for them. interior was shitty (and i thought my lgt's interior plastic/wood was notsogreat) and the ride was literally, as mentioned above, "crap on wheels." they were uncomfortable to drive and were not smooth at the pedal. in terms of exterior aesthetics, they were not very pleasing to the eye, either. my mom owns an s-500, i guess you could call that an american car, or at least the product of american intervention. GM, ford, etc. are like cancers. they buy up companies and make their cars worse. the s-500 is not a bad car, it drives smooth and ride is comfortable, but it is certainly not worth the 70+ grand (or whatever) u have to pay for one. american influence has apparently spread into mercedes, and that a dam shame. i recently test drove one of the more expensive lincoln cars as well. complete waste of money. fully loaded, 48k or something like that. the interior was bad and cheapy, and there was nothing special at all about the car. at least with japanese cars u usually have a respectable bang/buck factor, but whoever said american car companies are riding on nostalgia is right. these cars have nothing going for them.

 

i hate american cars because they are the way they are. some of my friends will not accept the fact that jap cars are generally a much better choice than their american counterparts. what many ppl forget is that when the japanese brought their cars here a few decades ago, they were just as problematic as their american counterparts. the japanese were very good at copying, however, and much more clever than the american car companies. they noticed their mistakes and corrected many of them.

 

to me, the recent releases like the charger, chrysler 300, mustang retro, and cobalt are last ditch efforts by american car companies to attract those of the older generations who knew nothing but american auto. its just business, theres always someone on top, and the americans are losing this race (for now). people take the whole car things so personally, i jsut get mad because they refuse to make the smarter choice at times. they will buy crappy american cars because of their pride for their country. i must also say, i have travelled around the world a lot, the US is one of the few countries that has people that are so full of themselves. i guess that idealogy carries into the car culture as well .

 

i might have made some severe grammatical errors/some of my shit may not make sense, but hey, its a rant.

 

cheers

[skibum]

No. the Tribeca an absolutely piss-poor stab at the SUV market.

 

You obviously have ZERO experience with the new DC Hemi cars (300C/Magnum/Charger). I have a friend with a 300C, and another with a Hemi Charger (which I've driven). These are excellent cars. Subaru should do as well, especially since these cars are comparably priced.

 

As Legacy Lizard mentioned in his post, US SUVs are the highwater mark for SUVs. If nothing else, US mfrs can do trucks and SUVs RIGHT.

 

 

I agree with ya on the B9 - just plain silly. However for my tastes, the Japanese and Germans (namely Toyota and VW) share the highwater mark for SUVs, although DC is playing catch-up fairly well with the hemi powered units. They just need to bump up quality another couple notches. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the high-end Land Rovers, but if I had to choose just one, that would be a 4.2L Touareg.

[jc51373]

Most of what you mention is personal prefernece on the vehicle's feaures. The basic functions of an SUV are to haul people, cargo, and trailers. US mfrs have it in spades. The SUVs you mention are good for people who need to haul those heavy loads from Costco.

 

The Tribeca has more problems than just being underpowered. Ugly is one, and interior space WRT the competition is another.

 

Please............Toyota bought GMs share of Fuji as an investment and to help two industry partners, not because of a product belief. To believe that Subaru has any kind of AWD expertise is to believe that Volvo as any kind of safety advantage. Pure marketing BS to try and dfferentiate their products.

 

"With the exception of the Corvette"?? You obviousl haven't owned one of those crap-buckets either!! After I said I would NEVER own another after the first, I got sucked in and bought a new Bowling Green car years ago. It just sucks less!! The Corvette is my "poster boy" for the crappy quality of US cars.....500+ HP or not.

 

 

 

LOL....Heres an idea, go sell crazy someplace else.

 

Toyota bought that for invesment purposes and because they know Subaru has one of the best mosr durable AWD systems in the world. And yes Volvos are very safe, I have seen sveral of them cut into pieces. No ones is trying to kid you with marketing pal, believe it. Most of this stuff is well thought out, not some Tom Foolery.

 

Ergonomics are not personal preference, it is a matter of common sense, something most American car layouts had little benefit from.

 

SUVS are used for hauling things from Cosco ya dolt, whay do you think people buy them for? Goin muddin?Most people aren't hauling trailers, mostly buy for inclement weather and kids. And any of the ones I mentioned Haul people better than ANYTHING American, RX for example, has reclining rear seats!

 

You take your American clunkers, you will certainly get a good bargain on em (but you ultimately get what you pay for). No coincidence that they are practically giving them away. I will take Japanese engineering any day of the week, then german, then Swedish...After that I prefer walking/biking over driving American, since I would probably do alot of that owning one anyway. Junk heeps.

 

Covettes suck too....Blah, blah, blah, blah.

[konrad]

I owned few american cars (dodge, ford) and japanesse (Toyota) and I have to say that I will never buy any of these again. My last car lasted for 90K. However I will never buy Honda or Toyota either b/c these cars are just plain! Period.They have great marketing and make cars for ppl who don't fell like thinking and all they need is a box to drive them from point A to Pint B. My parents have 2005 CRV and nothing but problems with that "box" so here it is to so called Honda Quality. (not even mentioning their crappy lawn movers)

[rporter]

I owned few american cars (dodge, ford) and japanesse (Toyota) and I have to say that I will never buy any of these again. My last car lasted for 90K. However I will never buy Honda or Toyota either b/c these cars are just plain! Period.They have great marketing and make cars for ppl who don't fell like thinking and all they need is a box to drive them from point A to Pint B. My parents have 2005 CRV and nothing but problems with that "box" so here it is to so called Honda Quality. (not even mentioning their crappy lawn movers)

 

Oh yeah, all those boring Supras, S2000s, Type Rs, etc. In it's dreams, Subaru wishes it could have the success and quality of those two makes. It's reputation as the car of choice of granola-crunchers who haul their trash to the recycling center is not winning it many new converts.....and they (Subaru) seems to LIKE this reputation

 

Have you ever bought and owned a Honda lawnmower?? Obviously not, as your comment is so blatantly ignorant that the rest of your post has lost any validity with me.

 

This is what pisses me off about this thread..folks pulling crap out of their asses with no personal experience. Fine, your folks had an issue with one Honda (what the sunvisor was sticking??). Well, we have a 10-year-old Honda, and it has had ZERO problems....best (frm a reliability standpoint) car I've ever owned over the last 40 years and approx 30 cars. Obviously, with the sales of Honda and Toyota through the roof worldwide, millions of people must be idiots, eh? Cars sales are built on the masses. You mst sell to them to have the $$$ to make the fun stuff.

[konrad]

Hmm, I do own honda lawmower and it still sits in my garage collecting dust after it took crap after two years. My parent's CRV had muh more going on then stickingsunvisor it was a LEMON! and Honda took it back.

But I am not going to elaborate any more b/c it looks like you have some anger managment class to attend. I mean, there is no reason to get excited we are just talking here.

[emorphien]

Well subaru has a challenge to get away from the granola munching demographic. They make good, safe cars that are pretty reliable, maybe not quite as reliable as the Hondas or Toyotas, but still quite good. They need to find a new market to advertise to.

 

They're good at making fun cars so maybe they need to tout their performance capabilities more. It's a growing phase, they've got to find their place or they won't move beyond where they are now.

[jlce88]

You know, in my 42 years I've owned American and foreign made cars. My 1990 Legacy L wagon almost made 3 trips around the odometer, with me putting more than half of that mileage on it, essentially more than 180,000 miles on it put on by me. All I did to it was put new plug wires on it, a new water pump which I did AFTER it failed and I continued to drive it to work and the obvious timing belt. This is above the obvious normal wear and tear items. I only traded it in after I couldn't get the rear aligned anymore. All that mileage out of a "problem car".

Not all American cars suck, I've owned more American cars than foreign. I still own two Fords, one of the afore mention suck cars, a 2002 Taurus, and a 1998 Mustang GT. Neither of those cars has given me a minute of trouble, the Taurus is pushing 100k and the Mustang has 38K mostly one lap at a time.

Any car from any manufacturer will have problems. Owner maintenance and driving habits contribute significantly to the life of a car, foreign or domestic. There are the lemons, of which all manufacturers have, and the crap like Yugos, but when you don't buy the crap, they go away.

No SUV of the current breed will stand up to any significant off roading, unlike a second generation Bronco or and early Blazer, which would, if built today, be considered an SUV. If you take an Escalade or a 4 Runner off road too often, it will develope rattles, it will bend it's pretty aluminum alloy rims, it will break.

 

It's all supply and demand...we, as a minority, may be demanding a twin turbo motor, but since we are choked with our environmental restrictions, we won't get one. I may be "lucky" to live in a state where there are no emissions tests (and it's a good thing, my Mustang would set a sniffer off just by pulling into the parking lot near the testing station, but I'm still running the risk of the fine for messing with emissions) I could do a swap if I really wanted to.

There will always be automaker hits and misses. That's just the way it is, there is no perfect car. All we can do is hope someone in corporate will listen to us, keep making our cars better, and for us to keep wondering why gas prices keep going up in spite of resumption of production from the gulf region and the lowering price of a barrel of crude oil.

 

<rant off>

[skibum]

Listen people, the best compact SUV in the world is........The Nissan X-Trail! (Sorry Forester) Seriously, nothing else in the world market comes close when you factor in storage room, availability of a 5-speed, features for dollar-euro-yen-rupee spent, halfway decent power, capability to select between 4WD and 2WD, etc. Naturally, Nissan, in it's infinite French-like lack of wisdom, chooses not to offer it to US buyers.

 

Sort of reminiscent of Subaru's dumber than ass-dumb decision to pull the MT/cloth interior from '06 Leggy GT wagons, no???....YES!!! Or should I say Oui! Damn you Subaru of America!!!!! Ok, so what? I'm getting plastered on day-old Spanish bubbly from last night's festivities....it still tastes great, and everything I stated above is still irrefutable.

 

Happy New Year Y'All!

[mmanus88]

i completely agree. our legacies does have its share of problems, but from what i've read and heard, they are minor. thin paint, shitty audio options, could-be-improved interior peices, those are minor i suppose compared to some major mechanical problems other cars, from all makers, have had in the past. i just don't appreciate american car makers falling behind and still getting away with charging "standard" prices for cars where there are much better supplements made in other countries. i guess u just have to be an educated buyer in this market.

 

although i am barely 18 (jan. 12, someone buy me an AP ) i have always been a smart buyer, research things before i buy them, see what others have to say and what the general consensus is. i got this legacy (rather, my dad was kind enough to get it for me) because i knew subaru has made solid cars for the most part. safety and build quality are very highly rated. i have made many mistakes with this car, but all have taught me, as a car lover, lessons i can carry on into life. just to name a few, don't get big rims in the tristate area, make sure u buy your navi system from a reputable retailer (yes, mechanical problems with my avic-n2), don't use cotton towels on your paint, yadda yadda yadda. the lessons i have learned with this car have cost me huge amounts of money, but i still learned them and i try not to get upset, this is one of many cars i will go through in life.

 

yea i got off topic sorry

 

still, i suppose, if you miss your 80s stang (or earlier) and are feeling giddy, buying the new retro stang would be a blast from the past. whatever floats yer boat.

[mmanus88]

yea skiblum i agree, subby couldve made better decisions with the legacy. even for 2005, better audio (mcintosh system) and navi wouldve been nice. i didn't know i liked music so much to want to install a custom system later on, factory shit is so much more conveniant, even if u overpay a bit.

 

as for me, i still have the munchies from last night