skibum Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 yea skiblum i agree, subby couldve made better decisions with the legacy. even for 2005, better audio (mcintosh system) and navi wouldve been nice. i didn't know i liked music so much to want to install a custom system later on, factory shit is so much more conveniant, even if u overpay a bit. as for me, i still have the munchies from last night Yes. Cheers! <hic> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 People get so emotional about all of this... I think most of America's car company troubles are corporate culture-related. Americans, europeans, Japanese, chinese, all are hard working people. Different wages, different management styles, but all people who work for a living. That being said, American corporate culture is slowly decapitating the american automakers. Overhead for union demands, poor product and management choices, and not listening to what the enthusiast customer wants, are all huge problems. American and european workers tend to demand themselves out of labor competition, and in America particularly don't seem to understand that taking their pound of flesh from the companies that employ them may feel good, but do them no favors in terms of harming the companies they depend on for employment all-together. Offering cars, and options for those cars that aren't what people want, or offering them at too high a price can't go on forever. That dovetails with the enthusiast bit. Enthusiasts buy cars. not all of the cars, and not all of the time. Enthusiasts care about cars, and talk about cars. What market makes the most sense to cater to? those who care about cars, or those who don't? If you can sell an enthusiast a car, then you can sell just about anyone else that same car. Not just performance cars, but good quality and well-thought out designs of all persuasions. trucks, SUVs, luxury cars... etc. GM and Ford offer bland cars, at a price that isn't sustainable. Recent employee discount programs illustrate it in brilliant colors. They sell a bunch of cars to people who know that the price will be going back up, so they buy before they planned, to save a couple thousand bucks, and perhaps that discount also pulls them from a different brand of car... price does make a difference, especially financing tens of thousands of dollars for half a decade or more. Then, when the sale is over, October sales were beyond pitiful. so they do another sale in November and december, to try to get back on that horse. The only products that are so volatile due to price, are products that have few or no other attractive saleable attributes BESIDES their price discount. Chrysler may have it's problems, reliabilty is not a hallmark, and the newest LX platform cars are still unknown quantities over the long term, although they are based on previous mercedes E-class, which isn't a horrible thing. Interior is bland, no manual transmission option, even on the high-zoot SRTs. They weigh a TON. Actually, literally TWO tons. But, at least they are RWD. At least they are V8. They are what buyers of american cars look for, and that is fine. Ford and GM don't have it, aside from the Mustang, GTO, and Corvette. But there is more to life than that. GM and Ford had better get on the ball, because the Dodge Challenger is going to compete with those coupes, and the General (motors) and Ol' Henry (ford) have nothing else. General is canning RWD sedan platforms, they have no wagons, and crossover utes are based on FWD cars... Ford is about the same, with the Lincoln LS, Town Car, and likely crown vic replacements are going to FWD, since the LS platform is getting canned, which is a STUPID mistake... Instead of seeing that RWD and AWD are what people are wanting, since technology is making stylish good ol' american full size V8 RWD cars feasible again, more efficent and driveable than ever before. They are sticking to their boring FWD subsistence crap. Fusion. Five Hundred, Impala, Lacrosse??? naw-thanks. At least the 300/Charger/Magnum at least look like something. Far from perfect, but something. Now if they could get their cost under control, to start offering some nicer interiors, and perhaps think about new platforms that aren't so heavy. Mercedes needs to pull it's head out of it's own reputation a little bit, too. Before they loose even that. That is not to say that the rest of the world is perfect. it is not. Germans are getting too "cocky" and need to keep an eye on their reliability, even if they do sell cars despite their flaws. They keep getting more and more expensive, with more and more gadgets... Porsche is doing well, but they have done well before, before being on the precipice of bankruptcy. The british make nice cars. Out of most people's price range, and for meager profits even in that rarified air. MG Rover folded under many of the same non-production-related costs that are plagueing the US automakers. Now they are owned by the chinese. The Japanese have their issues, too. They seem all so eager to compete in the same categories over and over and over. boring sedans (ok, a few decent ones...) Unibody SUVs, and try to take a peice of the pickup truck pie. Heaven forbid that Toyota build an exciting car again. Honda does slightly better with the S2k, but the NSX was a great car without a market. If it had been much less expensive, and slightly more charisthmatic, it probably would have done much better. the korean conglomerate seems to be hell bent on out-toyota-ing toyota. boring for slightly less money. Subaru at least has something. real AWD. manual transmisison offerings. Some are a bit homely. Legacy is nice, and could be nicer, with some smart enhancements. Everybody is coming out with sporty sedans (except GM and Ford.) and the Legacy can, and should compete. Mostly it comes down to cost. what is costing these companies... building cars, providing employee and retiree benefits, paying union perks, or paying management that prefers to stick to what doesn't work or make stupid cutbacks. Or All of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProConcept Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 ^ your exactly right. One thing you forgot to mention though is that Japanese companies need to stop pussyfooting around in the US and bring over the real performers that are only sold in Japan or Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toogrumpy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 This is simple, there are many different types of people and therefore many types of cars. EVERY car manufacturer out there has made a crappy car. I had a 2000 Silverado and it was JUNK; a friend of mine has a 2000 Silverado with 130,000 plus miles and it has never been to the dealership. Why is this? People are different. I am sure he experienced some of the problems I did, but he didnt care. I traded in a Titan on my 05 Legacy. The Titan's motor was fantastic, but I couldn't stand all the squeaking from the interior. Find a car you like and drive it like you stole it! (or the police officer chasing the guy that stole it) Life is short - be happy:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 ^ maybe they're keeping it to themselves for their home market, just so they can have something of their own that's not been marketed to the American masses. Keeps it exclusive and they can subtly say "up yours". The reality is that it costs so dang much to get anything "certified" and "in compliance with" government structural/crash and EPA requirements and the insurance industry's and manufacturer's horrendous fear of legal liability if someone stubbs a finger nail on an interior piece... or gets killed driving too fast for conditions... yeah don't get me started on this one. I've always been a Jeep person, all the way back to 1958 when I drove my first one sitting in my Dad's lap as we powered through the back woods with our 50-some horsepowered Hurricane I-4 engine wailing away up front. I still love the sound of that engine to this day. When I heard that the Jeep Commander was finally going to make it to dealers, I immediately went in to look at it. I'm very impressed. Essentially Daimler running gear, except for the NP transfer case and the Hemi (5.4L little Hemi) up front. Definitely considering getting this vehicle to use for trailer towing and getting my car back and forth to the auto-x and track circuits. It's definitely grown up but is still not as gargantuan-seeming as a Nissan Titan or a Ford Excursion (even the new Ford Explorer seems larger outside) and it's certainly smaller than an Expedition/Lincoln Navigator in overall size. It's also pretty refined as SUVs go. And yes, it would have to put some in some mud-stomping, and trail cavorting duties as I go out regularly with friends to do these things. I'm not afraid to scar up the wheels if it keeps the tires moving. Would it be a daily driver - hardly. Would it fill the niche that I thought the Tribeca could fill (towing, light off-road) - heck yeah and then some! Will it cost me an arm and a leg to own/operate. Well it's no H4/H6 and it is a V8 and heavier than anything else in the stable by a significant margin, so I've got to look at it from that perspective. Am I confident that DC has a good build on this vehicle - yes - but it is a first year vehicle so we'll just have to wait and see. BTW - this is likely the only SUV that I would consider. Dislike the JGC and the Wrangler just doesn't have enough of what I need. If DC has gotten this vehicle "right" it could be the rekindling of a dormant love affair with Jeeps. Time will tell. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Does nobody remember the studder? Oh yes, all Jap cars are greatt-tt-ttt-tt-t. All american cars suck. Morans. I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Does nobody remember the studder? Oh yes, all Jap cars are greatt-tt-ttt-tt-t. All american cars suck. Morans. Well like I said with any car you have to weigh the good points and the bad points. The Legacy (turbo) certainly does stutter and for some that could be a deal breaker. Mine stops once it's had a chance to warm up though. But you sure obviously don't get the point of why Japanese cars on a whole have much better ratings with places like CR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I would not mind being in a new Lincoln Navigator. I think those are pimp, even if they do waste a ton of gas. My friend has one and I have been in it plenty of times. It is not bad, and he has not experienced any issues with it. X --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacingFish Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 look at my avatar.... nuff said... tribeca underpowered?? i laff at people that say that. Ive had plenty of fast cars.... 12.98 wrx 12.3 rx7 ???? lgt havent ran it yet. i get in my tribeca and it performs well enough for me. tribecas are nice hell it makes me not want to drive my lgt. you got to remember that its a suv its not going to hit 13's as long as it gets me in and out of traffic when i merge then its all good to me. it kinda reminds me of all the import owners that say american suck. you ask them have they ever owned american and most of them say no... or vice versa american that say imports suck... its kinda like racism you have to own and learn first hand to have an opinion. ive had porsche ive had lexus ford volvo oldsmobile (442) mazda honda and my last 3 cars have been subaru. i love my subarus and i honestly have to say there isnt much i would change out of em. im intrested to see the srt8 cherokee tho... my dealership also owns a jeep and dodge and chrysler and mitsu dealership so i can drive any of their offerings. well see the overall fit to finish of that srt8. ill keep you guys informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacingFish Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Well subaru has a challenge to get away from the granola munching demographic. They make good, safe cars that are pretty reliable, maybe not quite as reliable as the Hondas or Toyotas, but still quite good. They need to find a new market to advertise to. actually subarus are more reliable then hondas or toyotas... I know service techs that make over 100k at honda... alls i hear from subaru techs are theres no warranty work cuz they dont break down... hondas are great cars dont get me wrong... but how many honda owners do you see that drive them for 300 400 500 thousand miles??? its not unheard of for suby owners doing this... and as for volvo being safe cars.... umm yeah that was right in the late 80's when they werent owned by an AMERICAN company... ohh yeah and the Legacy was Sedan of the year in japan... they do sell hondas and toyotas out there dont they??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 look at my avatar.... nuff said... tribeca underpowered?? i laff at people that say that. Ive had plenty of fast cars.... 12.98 wrx 12.3 rx7 ???? lgt havent ran it yet. i get in my tribeca and it performs well enough for me. tribecas are nice hell it makes me not want to drive my lgt. you got to remember that its a suv its not going to hit 13's as long as it gets me in and out of traffic when i merge then its all good to me. it kinda reminds me of all the import owners that say american suck. you ask them have they ever owned american and most of them say no... or vice versa american that say imports suck... its kinda like racism you have to own and learn first hand to have an opinion. ive had porsche ive had lexus ford volvo oldsmobile (442) mazda honda and my last 3 cars have been subaru. i love my subarus and i honestly have to say there isnt much i would change out of em. im intrested to see the srt8 cherokee tho... my dealership also owns a jeep and dodge and chrysler and mitsu dealership so i can drive any of their offerings. well see the overall fit to finish of that srt8. ill keep you guys informed. Great post!!!!!! Actually awesome post!!!!! Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Incidently - do you all know which manufacturer has the most recalls per vehicle year? Amazing, but it's Toyota. I was just reading an article in our local weekly Wheels section of the newspaper and it was the front cover story. What makes Toyota different is the "perception" that their cars are better built and more reliable than another brand X. And, Toyota realizes that it cannot build zero-defect cars - it's just not possible - there's too many parts that have to fly in close formation for that to happen. When they find that a part is not operating to design spec, or it's a safety issue, they don't stall and deny, they step up to the plate and let their customers know that they are being responsive/responsible to their loyal owners by making the recall/repair available as soon as practical. They don't even let it get to the engineering stage at NHTSA which I believe is the first stage in an official recall. Toyota just goes ahead and fixes the problem. This keeps it out of the public domain and behind the scenes. So when Toyota owners get a recall notice, it's not viewed as "bad" as in 'I must have a bad car because it's been recalled', but rather as a "good" car and that Toyota is taking care of their owners quickly. Toyota coffers are flush with cash right now and they can afford to do this. American auto manufacturers are bleeding red, financially, and the last thing they can afford is a series of recalls of the magnitude that Toyota makes each year. So cars break, the mfgrs drag their feet trying not to have to recall their cars. This, build reliable cars AND take care of the customer, are probably the main reasons that Toyota will overtake GM as the Number One auto mfgr in the world either this year or next. Subaru will learn something from their partnership with Toyota, and we as consumers/enthusiasts/customers may very well see some of the benefits of that alliance. I shuddered everytime I thought about GM and its misgotten corporate handlers muddling with the Subaru gene pool and am darn glad to know that they are out of the mix. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacingFish Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 yeah watch out for the new suby hybrids thanx to toyota... and yeah thats a pik of lance armstrong on my wall (discovery channel sponsered by subaru) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Incidently - do you all know which manufacturer has the most recalls per vehicle year? Amazing, but it's Toyota. I was just reading an article in our local weekly Wheels section of the newspaper and it was the front cover story. What makes Toyota different is the "perception" that their cars are better built and more reliable than another brand X. And, Toyota realizes that it cannot build zero-defect cars - it's just not possible - there's too many parts that have to fly in close formation for that to happen. When they find that a part is not operating to design spec, or it's a safety issue, they don't stall and deny, they step up to the plate and let their customers know that they are being responsive/responsible to their loyal owners by making the recall/repair available as soon as practical. They don't even let it get to the engineering stage at NHTSA which I believe is the first stage in an official recall. Toyota just goes ahead and fixes the problem. This keeps it out of the public domain and behind the scenes. So when Toyota owners get a recall notice, it's not viewed as "bad" as in 'I must have a bad car because it's been recalled', but rather as a "good" car and that Toyota is taking care of their owners quickly. Toyota coffers are flush with cash right now and they can afford to do this. American auto manufacturers are bleeding red, financially, and the last thing they can afford is a series of recalls of the magnitude that Toyota makes each year. So cars break, the mfgrs drag their feet trying not to have to recall their cars. This, build reliable cars AND take care of the customer, are probably the main reasons that Toyota will overtake GM as the Number One auto mfgr in the world either this year or next. Subaru will learn something from their partnership with Toyota, and we as consumers/enthusiasts/customers may very well see some of the benefits of that alliance. I shuddered everytime I thought about GM and its misgotten corporate handlers muddling with the Subaru gene pool and am darn glad to know that they are out of the mix. SBT Exactly, you have a point here, something that Subaru doesn't do. Don't take me wrong, I looove the LGT, a looot better bang for the buck than my S4., however the stutter should have been a recall and a fix after that, not just a service bulleting for 'selected' ones. Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 ^ agreed - I'm frankly disapppointed with SOA over this one issue. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elej Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 look at my avatar.... nuff said... tribeca underpowered?? i laff at people that say that. ... i get in my tribeca and it performs well enough for me. tribecas are nice hell it makes me not want to drive my lgt. . as a fellow Tribeca owner, i just thought i'd represent, as the kids say today. it is no Cayenne, but it is plenty quick for merging and passing. it drives excellent. it is a solid car. (when did 250HP become slow anyway, even in a 2ton car?) style-wise, well clearly its not for everybody, but wife & I both love it inside and out. The fit & finish on the B9 is impeccable. i love my LGT, but it could learn from the tribeca in this department. I don't mean to stir the pot about do American cars suck or not, but.... one fact is: according to GM's own CEO Wagoner per vehicle health care costs is $1,500. compared to $200. for Toyota in the US. So....if you buy a GM, at least $1,300 of your money is not going to the design/development/feature content of your car. Oh yeah, and to get back on topic, sorry Sneezy for having to part with the LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyhuff Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I've had several vehicles , both foriegn and domestic models. You can't tell me a civic has better fit and finish, power, or comfort than a cadillac. It depends on what you buy a civic, RSX, ect. are foriegn cavaliers, economical, basic transportation. Massive production as cheap as possible, no attention to detail or minor flaws. I've had good luck with a couple of American cars, 92 Berretta GTZ, 180,000 miles on the original clutch, Replaced coil assembly twice, other than that only preventitive maintenance. 89 Dodge Dakota 130,000 replaced radiator and starter only, still sold $5600 in 1995. 98 Tacoma Piece of crap. Under powered, lousy sheet metal( would dent loading groceries) ( not nearly as sure footed as the dodge in 4x4. Weak, noisy clutch. Road noise. Forced to trade in on another Dakota @ 30,000 because I couldn't stand driving it ($8000, Resale ??? terrible, tried to sell for six months My old man has a 92 dodge spirit, 239,000 miles, yes 239,000 and still going, has had some transmission work, Rides like shit, but he can't get rid of it because it lasted so long (sentimental or something, plus he has five other vehicles. Kind of embarrassing, but he still drives that piece of shit occassionally) Reminded me of a funny story about that car. Stormy lots of snow. He calls me at work. He Says... Brought the spirit to work today, it went well, no problems. I pulled into work and thought to myself this SOB is still a pretty good, reliable mode of transportation. I openened the door to get out.........and it fell off. I replied "good, you said you would drive it till the doors fell off, junk it." He finds a hinge pin at the local advance on the way home and fixes it. (how is that stocked inventory? I've had foriegn vehicles that had not lasted even close to as long as these, before they started to nickle and dime me. Maybe it's a little more how you treat the vehicle, not who made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc51373 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Oh yeah, all those boring Supras, S2000s, Type Rs, etc. In it's dreams, Subaru wishes it could have the success and quality of those two makes. It's reputation as the car of choice of granola-crunchers who haul their trash to the recycling center is not winning it many new converts.....and they (Subaru) seems to LIKE this reputation Have you ever bought and owned a Honda lawnmower?? Obviously not, as your comment is so blatantly ignorant that the rest of your post has lost any validity with me. This is what pisses me off about this thread..folks pulling crap out of their asses with no personal experience. Fine, your folks had an issue with one Honda (what the sunvisor was sticking??). Well, we have a 10-year-old Honda, and it has had ZERO problems....best (frm a reliability standpoint) car I've ever owned over the last 40 years and approx 30 cars. Obviously, with the sales of Honda and Toyota through the roof worldwide, millions of people must be idiots, eh? Cars sales are built on the masses. You mst sell to them to have the $$$ to make the fun stuff. Dude, relax, just because you are a zillion years old doesn't mean you know everything. I for one like to measure my life in experiences, not by how many years I have been driving or birthdays I have had. The Subie bashing is not necessary.. Let me shed a little light on something for you..Honda (which I own and love), is a good product. The reason you see sooooo many out there is not simply because they build a good car, like I said earlier, they SUBSIDIZE their lease and buy programs heavily-Toyota the same, Audi as well. Market is flooded with them, demand is high they know they can resell them...Subie can't do that, residuals lower...Doesnt mean they are inferior, just different. don't think this is a business decision you can just make lightly anyway, I think it requires certain fundamentals. Subaru doesn't quite have the brand strength those cars do for different reasons. I agree to a point that the Granola appeal is there, but fading fast, that was mostly with the outback anyway. I will take Subaru rally technology over just about anything Honda and Toyota build anyday of the week. From sales, market standpoint Honda Toyota win in the Jap market, but Subaru makes a better product hands down..Neither of those companies make a wagon (No to mention one with nuts), Honda is lacking bigtime in the AWD department, Toyota will rely on Subaru to help them with that. Go into any car dealership and ask them what THEY think of Subaru, and you will get a resounding postive response. BUt here is the real bottom line..I will smoke any Accord, Civic, Camry, TL, RL, RSX, MDX, XXX, etc...I will out perform any of those in bad weather with less long term problems to-boot, Legacy looks better than anything they make. Turbos are a blast to drive. Nuff said...American cars, why waste the time talking about such a buncha bum products. Unless they are trucks..But this is a Legacy forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 It would be nice if Subaru could benefit from some Toyota marketing. But then again I would not want to bump into my exact car every five minutes while I am out and about. Maybe Subaru should hire Chiat-Day for some ad campaigns: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/redlightrunner/thinkdifferent.mov Just recycle some ads Just to get it back on topic, I think you could have done a lot worse than a Cherokee with a Hemi, you could have traded it in for a trailblazer! nothing like the crappy quality of a nice GM product! --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc51373 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 as a fellow Tribeca owner, i just thought i'd represent, as the kids say today. it is no Cayenne, but it is plenty quick for merging and passing. it drives excellent. it is a solid car. (when did 250HP become slow anyway, even in a 2ton car?) style-wise, well clearly its not for everybody, but wife & I both love it inside and out. The fit & finish on the B9 is impeccable. i love my LGT, but it could learn from the tribeca in this department. I don't mean to stir the pot about do American cars suck or not, but.... one fact is: according to GM's own CEO Wagoner per vehicle health care costs is $1,500. compared to $200. for Toyota in the US. So....if you buy a GM, at least $1,300 of your money is not going to the design/development/feature content of your car. Oh yeah, and to get back on topic, sorry Sneezy for having to part with the LGT. I noticed this after my rant above...Best of luck to you with your Tribeca, it is a beautiful car, and I like it very much. Would be my second pick over the Legacy for my wife. Loved the fit and finish and I like the look too. Just want to give it a few years since the market for SUV seems in flux right now, and to work the bugs out. As far as stats, great information above...Here is another for you..As an avid reader of Consumer Reports, I noticed 29 of the 32 "Not recommended" vehicles were AMERICAN cars. I won't tell you the numbers and manufaturers that won the most of CR "Recommended" category. Other than saying the Tribeca was one of them, and about 2/3 were NOT American, and NOT German. You do the math. Duusssst in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub_Free Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I just traded in our '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (5.9) for the LGT Ltd. The Jeep had 88k miles on it, with no major problems that wasn't covered under warrenty. On the mountain the Jeep was alot of fun. We took it off roading a few times and even bone stock it handled really well. Biggest problems were: Plenum at 8k, 12k, 26k and 40k. This was a known problem, the dealership just couldn't get it right. All 4 Rotors at 22k Steering pump at 30k both front control arms around 40k Radiator at 60k (this wasn't covered) I like the new look of the JGC, but couldn't justify another one with the gas prices the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperator Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 The personal experience argument is nonsense. There are some freak American cars going on 300K and conversely some lemon jap cars and, welcome to the world of random entropy. No one's going to offend any WWII vets out there by simply stating that the quality and reliability of Japanese is generally higher. Just because someone's personal experience doesn't jive with statistics derived from a huge sample size doesn't mean the statistics are invalid. Just cause someone drives a 1984 Ciera past a broken down 2000 Civic on a given day doesn't mean squat in terms of extrapolating reliability. Whenever I get into a new American car I am continually shocked by the experience. For some reason I always expect more. Frankly it's embarassing that a $45,000 American SUV interior looks like the Uhaul I rented last year. If Acura put an interior like the Suburban into the MDX people would freak, but since it's "American" it's considered acceptable. Leafspring suspension was also considered acceptable by American automakers up until disturbingly recently, but that's ok because you can call it "quaint" or "sturdy" or some other positive spin nonsense. How Suburbans or Cherokees became staus symbols is beyond me, it seems like some groupthink defense against buyers remorse is at work. It seems that when people compare the two "genres" the American cars get a handicap on some general principle and consequently get called "just as good", so that no one's feelings get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 The personal experience argument is nonsense. There are some freak American cars going on 300K and conversely some lemon jap cars and, welcome to the world of random entropy. Some basic courses in statistics should be required of everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 guys... This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 guys... as i recall there's someone on this forum who resembles that remark and gets very touchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.