Trading the LGT in on Tuesday

[kmurph]

Are people forgetting that many "Asian" cars are built in the US by US workers? Korea and Japan have invested millions in building plants in this country. While Japanese cars have enjoyed higher reliability reports, I have been far more impressed with fit and finish of a car that was built in Japan than one built in the US.

 

The car design, including choice of materials may be done outside of the US,and can account for a good deal of perceived value or quality. However, camrys, accords and others are built here by Americans who are no different than the people building fords or GM cars. Therefore there has to be something in the corporate environment, tolerence for problems and failure and how the company is run and structured that accounts for these differences.

True...and our Legacy is built in the great state of Indiana...also, a lot of car design and engineering is done inside the U.S. by Americans for Asian/German auto makers.

[RuskiTrombone]

6K is a large sum to ask

[Drakuun]

6K is a large sum to ask

 

 

ROFL- K/G cripes..

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Here's your problem and here's what most of us have already found out....

 

 

Once you go Jap, you never go back.

 

Unfournately you are.

 

WTF did I start here?

 

I have a 27 month lease, I'll never hit 50K miles on it. I have many friends with Jeeps and have very few problems but as we all know every car has problems, none are perfect.

 

Yep, Toyota is the king of recalls! It's all about perception and Toyota sells plenty of that.

 

I don't like the Tribeca, drove one and did not care for it at all, lots of noise from the back of it as well as other things. It's just not me.

 

I've driven a lot of SUV's trying to find one I liked and the Jeep was it. Lot's of creature comforts to boot.

 

I'm not waiting for the SRT8, I have no need for that kind of power, I'm happy with the Hemi. I spent 4 days in my dads 05 Jeep and loved it. It's quirky and most cars are. My only complaint was his needed more power, hence the Hemi in mine.

 

I like very few American vehicles but I tend to buy what I like at the time.

 

I have 27 months to decide what my next vehicle will be.

 

it would be refreshing to see people lose thier attitudes for a change on this site, but alas I know that won't happen.

[jlce88]

i just want to see what those domestics are worth in a few years. after everyone who got the "employee pricing" starts to flood the market with their trade ins... can u say upside down....

 

Yeah don't forget when all the lease cars come off lease. The only good thing about that is usually they come off lease early enough to become "certified" cars. Foreign cars are included in that. What really hurts is the fleet vehicles. I'm paying price on that by owning a Taurus too.

[legacy_y_tu]

I needed something bigger and the list of flaws kept me from trading on a wagon. I don't feel like getting into the whole story about it either. I've complained enough.

 

I pick up a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with a Hemi on Tuesday. I leased this time which is smarter for me in the long run. (company car, I lease it from my company for personal use, company pays for gas, maintenance ect, I just pay for mileage )

 

Now maybe I can talk the wife into that boat I want

 

regardless of it's flaws the LGT is one incredible car and I would still tell people to look at it when looking for a car. It has a lot of bang for the buck.

 

Wishin' you many fun miles with your Jeep.

 

I for one have no problems with US vehicles. My GMC truck I had was a more solid better all around truck than the Nissan truck I replaced it with; that thing was a mere wanna-be.

[Sneezy]

Here's your problem and here's what most of us have already found out....

 

 

Once you go Jap, you never go back.

 

Unfournately you are.

 

I've owned Jap cars for years. I had an F150 that was recently bought back which precipitated the need for a Jeep.

 

When I look for a vehicle I make sure I drive as many as possible so I know I'm buying the right one. I like the Jeep the best, what can I say?

 

in 20 months I will start the process all over again but wil I get an SUV or a car will be decided at that time.

 

I'm not brand loyal at all. While I do favor Honda (owned 3 of them, wife has a flawless 02 odyssey) I'm not loyal. No car manufacturer has ever given me a reason to be loyal, now the dealers are another story, My Ponitac dealer treats me like I have a 75K Caddy when I take in my Firehawk for service. I wanted to buy from them but I just didn't like the vehicles. I like to keep my eyes open and not be blinded by only one brand. There are many vehicles that beg to be driven. I do however refuse to even think of buying a Korean or a chinese car. I worked on some of the Koreans in the past and they were crap.

[iyalla]

I do however refuse to even think of buying a Korean or a chinese car. I worked on some of the Koreans in the past and they were crap.

 

Go and test drive a 2006 Sonata and I bet you change your mind. Pre 98 Korean cars suck but since 2000 they have been amazing.

 

To the person above who said chrysler killed Mercedes, I don't think Thats true. The German economy has been in trouble for almost a decade now and this is what has been killing their bottom line as they try and keep up with the Japanese, it just happened to concide with the purchase of Chrysler.

Remember when Lexus and Acura came out with their luxury cars in the late 80's and we all burst out laughing that they would dare take on Mercedes and the likes of BMW? Now whose laughing lol Mercedes certainly isnt. If it wasn't for the 3 series Bimmer would be in trouble too. VW would be out of trouble if they would only bring over the damn Golf and stopped worrying about Audi.

 

Brand loyalty is a figment of a by gone era. Too many companies exist under another companies brand (see GM), share platforms and electronics now for you to be loyal. Your Volvo is a Ford, I still cringe that GM had its grubby hands in the Legacy uuuuuugh.

 

Good luck with your truck!

[BoxerGT2.5]

I still cringe that GM had its grubby hands in the Legacy uuuuuugh.

 

Good luck with your truck!

 

 

I refuse to believe GM had anything to do with the Legacy. I think they were just standing idle waiting for things to scavange for their latest Saab.

[RuskiTrombone]

I blame all the rattles on GM

[DeepFreeze2]

At the end of the day, it's your coin, so you should be satisfied with the things that you spend it on. I've had cars from different manufacturers, and all of them met my needs (at least at the time in which I bought the car). However, needs change and/or what was important on day #1 (i.e.-speed), is not as important months or years later (i.e.-build quality). Get what you want/need and enjoy it. You should. Cars aren't exactly inexpensive.

[rporter]

Name one....

 

 

Thats what we thought.

 

You know, Being a fanboy is one thing, Fanboying US cars though.. thanks, I needed a healthy laugh this morning.

 

New DC Hemi cars, to name a few.....also the ages-old Crown Vic and Grand Marquis. Yep, not "sporty" cars, but bang for the $$$ is undeniable, plus outstanding reliability. Young guys with kids that I worked with bought these instead of minivans or SUVs. I will also predict that the new Fusion and related models are going to do very well for Ford....mch like the original Taurus.

 

Interesting, as there has been a discussion on another (US) car list 'm on about the "myth" of import cars, and I'm on the "defending the imports" side!!

 

The JD Powers Initial Quality surveys lway seemed to be BS to me, as that seems to be more of a reflection on the dealer prep than anything, but imports haven't been fairing too well in the 3-year long-term relability surveys. Although, on average, I feel that imports would show better in the 5+ year reliability range.

 

Things like Reliability are measurable. Getting into styling, features, etc gets subjective. the biggest subjective measure is "quality". Get five people in a room and you will get six opinions of "quality".

 

To say that domestic cars suck, or imports suck, is not a reasonable position. Different factors have meaning for different people, and there are good things that domestics and imports each offer to their buyers

[rporter]

Believe me...I only believe about .0001% of what a Car Salesman says...like when I test drove a Legacy GT and he proceeded to tell me that it handled better than a Porsche. I asked him, "What Porsche? Boxster, 996, 997?" He said, "I don't know...I guess they did some test and the Legacy handled better." Well, I've driven a 996 and a Boxster...and as much as I like my Legacy, it's not in the same league...

 

 

+1

 

I have NEVER had a car sales wonk know half as much as I did about a mdel that I was looking at, and I guess I don't really expect them to. The LGT salesman was about the best, but he was a former IT guy (and Saab enthusiast) who needed a job when he got laid off (and no longer sells Subarus, as he couldn't make any money!!)

[rporter]

I refuse to believe GM had anything to do with the Legacy. I think they were just standing idle waiting for things to scavange for their latest Saab.

 

True GM owned 20% of Fuji Heavy, and Suaru is only 20% of Fuji Heavy. The threw a life preserver to Saab with the Subaru vehicles, but Saab is probably not gonna be around before many more years. They really don't have a market niche anymore.

[Drakuun]

New DC Hemi cars

 

Wait 3 or 4 years then revisit that statement.

Also- direct intervention of a higher quality, non-domestic manufacturer is what 'salvaged' Chrysler. Last Inspiration the actual North American Chysler people had was the Viper, and Dodge Ram. They then promptly pulled the typical US about face and came out with the Prowler.

 

I rest my case

 

Besides- you want to say that looks are secodary points- fine- then why have cars at all? Ride a train if all you really want out of your transportation is reliability. Right? Design does matter, because things that are not obviously apparent don't sell cars. Look at the Tribeca.. Ugly as sin but about as reliable as they come I'd assume given Subys pedigree, but...

do they sell?

 

ahh well..

 

I think I share the opinion of many Former American Domestic car fans..

 

Give us something to come back to, not something that tries to rehash the past- give us something comparable- something fun- not mundanely styled "everyman" cars because 90% of your business revolves around selling cars to people who view them as metal with tires- glorified over priced appliances. -and thats exactly what most USD cars have become.

But don'tget me wrong, Toyota's and Honda's to me are exactly the same.

 

so honestly rporter- I'm on the fence more than to either side. I grew up on the GM meal ticket, grew up on those cars.. still till this day the 69/70 GTO is my all time favorite car, period. You really think that the OZ car they try and pass off as a GTO to me here today even hits my radar? They canned the Firebird for that?!?!?! Not that the firebird was really going anywhere.. but seriously? Also- you just know GM is gonna ressurect the olde Firebird from the ashes in another 10 years right.. what a wonderful mess that should be. Ever hear the story of the Olds F-88? Saturn Sky & Pontiac Soltice are it's rebirth.

 

Uninspired, Unoriginal crap. And yeah I know, I'll have to abandon every vehicle maker eventually. Story of consumerisim I suppose.

[rporter]

Wait 3 or 4 years then revisit that statement.

Also- direct intervention of a higher quality, non-domestic manufacturer is what 'salvaged' Chrysler. Last Inspiration the actual North American Chysler people had was the Viper, and Dodge Ram. They then promptly pulled the typical US about face and came out with the Prowler.

 

I rest my case

 

 

PT Cruiser.

 

Sharing of platforms/drivetrains/parts both ways across the oceans is going to be much more common than it already is today. Mixed content has been quite common for a number of years.

[Drakuun]

PT Cruiser.

 

Sharing of platforms/drivetrains/parts both ways across the oceans is going to be much more common than it already is today. Mixed content has been quite common for a number of years.

 

Yeah- I totaly forgot about the PT loser- see how bad it is I struck it from my memory.. ROFL...

 

Chevy SSR just got it's plug pulled, They build them in my old Home town- and they just shut the doors on that plant. HHR is another joke IMHO- so bad they got the same guy who did the PT to design it for them *woo big stretch in styling there GM..I can see it now.

Lutz: *DC's PT is doing great , how can we get one?*

Designer Lackey: *we can hire the guy who designed it?*

Lutz: *yeah do that.*

 

Meh- Main reason why I won't credit USD makers anymore is that I simply don't feel like they are trying anymore.

[MassiveAttack]

I really don't have a preference for any brand or loyalty toward US versus import. I have owned Subarus, Fords, Pontiac, Dodge, and Toyota. I do love my new Legacy and I did buy it based on the 30 month experience with my wife's Forester. However to break with popular tradition, the most reliable and well built car I have owned "so far" was my Pontiac Formula. I owned it for 6 years and never had it in the shop once. I do miss that car.

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

I love these threads- really brings out the e-experts

 

Let's talk about Bangbus instead

[ineedboost]

My only observation would be that back around 1985 it was the imports that seemed to be the nitch manufacturers. No real large trucks and very few SUV's. Now it seems that the domestics have become the nitch manufacturers with the SSR's, PT's and the retro muscle.

[douglas751]

Sorry to break it to you, but Chrysler was doing GREAT before Mercedes stole them. Does anybody wonder were the BILLIONS in cash that Chyrsler had before they were bought went? It went to Mercedes and Smart. Mercedes were bleeding like crazy. Chrysler could have built cars and gave them away for FREE for 2 or 3 year and would not have lost as much as Mercedes claimed. And, Mercedes did not have to follow the same rules of finacial disclosure as the US companies did. Why did Chrysler sell out? Big bonuses to the guys that made the deal and promptly retired very rich.

 

Mercedes sucks. Sorry. They lose money on every single car they sell in the USA and Canada and frankly the cars suck if you compate them to BMW or Audi.

 

Think of the cars that Chrysler, GM or even Subaru could build if they took 6 years to develop the car, and sold the cars for $50,000-$100,000 USD in America, $30,0000 to $150,000 USD in Europe and still lost money!!!!

[mmanus88]

i thought DC bought benz, and ever since benz has been shit (save the AMGs, but even then you're overpaying). my parents had a 2001 s500 and a 2002 s430, they were decent cars, but thats it. they were not worth the 60+ grand u pay for them at all. the 2006 legacy gt with navi will give u more worthwhile technology and performance than either of those ever could.

[rporter]

The Chrysler - MB deal was supposed to be a "merger of equals", but it quickly became apparent that MB was acting as the acquirer, as Chrysler started having problems soon afterward. That's why Kirk Kerkorian filed suit against the company.

 

MB builds a quality car, but they've had their issues the last few years, particulary with the S-Class. When you combine the costly nature of ding business in Germany, plus the exchange rate, they stay expensive. Germny has a more noncompetitive business/labor climate than our car mfrs here.

[The B4]

The Chrysler - MB deal was supposed to be a "merger of equals", but it quickly became apparent that MB was acting as the acquirer, as Chrysler started having problems soon afterward. That's why Kirk Kerkorian filed suit against the company.

 

MB builds a quality car, but they've had their issues the last few years, particulary with the S-Class. When you combine the costly nature of ding business in Germany, plus the exchange rate, they stay expensive. Germny has a more noncompetitive business/labor climate than our car mfrs here.

 

I was about to come in here and starting kicking butt so people would get their facts straight...about time someone posted something of truth.

[RuskiTrombone]

i thought DC bought benz, and ever since benz has been shit (save the AMGs, but even then you're overpaying). my parents had a 2001 s500 and a 2002 s430, they were decent cars, but thats it. they were not worth the 60+ grand u pay for them at all. the 2006 legacy gt with navi will give u more worthwhile technology and performance than either of those ever could.

 

I'll call BS on that. My family has owned many S class Mercedes and they were quality cars with tons of features. For a 30K car Subaru can't even put steering wheel controls, bluetooth, auto roll up windows and roll downs autos in the back, digital radio that comes standard on every 10K dollar Chrysler, Satellite radio, memory seating. There are so many features that are standard on cheaper cars than the Legacy yet Subaru neglected to add them into the Legacy. I think someone is worried more about spending extra to make a quality car rather than saving money on small things.