just crashed into a telephone pole... please dont bash me, just help!!!

[sputnik]

ABS systems are very simple. It doesn't even require a PID controller. If the ABS came on, that means you locked one of the wheels. No such thing as it came on too early. If all 4 wheels are still turning, that ABS won't come on. ABS only comes on when one or more wheels are locked. In most cases, just let the computer do the work and keep your foot on the brake and steer in the direction you want to go.

 

In my old Civic LX with a fairly decent set of Michelin tires ABS would routinely engage at one stop on my commute if I hit a small pothole while breaking even on absolutely dry surface. I would break from a low speed and ABS would rattle off for a couple of seconds. It is just hard to believe that I had a locked wheel in this situation. I drive LGT far more aggressively than the old Civic and I never had ABS getting engaged not only at that same spot but at all so far. Could it not be some deficiency in ABS itself on some cars like that Civic?

[team23jordan]

that does not look like you were going 20

no offense

 

i drove my car to the mountain where there were about 2" of new snow

it just did perfectly fine

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

Ok.... Came off a different way to my eyes.

 

Then state your opinion, don't say you have the right to give someone heat for not knowing as much as you. It wasn't too long ago you cracked up a WRX TWICE, totaling it the second time on a warm-up lap at the track. Mind you still learning yourself.

:werd: PotandKettledebate.jpeg

[Xenonk]

Ok.... Came off a different way to my eyes.

 

Then state your opinion, don't say you have the right to give someone heat for not knowing as much as you. It wasn't too long ago you cracked up a WRX TWICE, totaling it the second time on a warm-up lap at the track. Mind you still learning yourself.

 

 

yes, but I did that in an environment that was prepared for such things, not to mention that I do deal with my own problems and tackle the situation head-on (no pun intended).

[Colonel Lingus]

yes, but I did that in an environment that was prepared for such things, not to mention that I do deal with my own problems and tackle the situation head-on (no pun intended).

 

so, you didn't get the insurance company to pay for the car once you totalled it? If that's the case, then good man Keefe!! You didn't screw the rest of us by lying to your insurance company and passing the costs onto other WRX owners in the way of jacked up premiums. That's honesty and integrity at it's best.

[executor485]

Sorry to hear about that. I really wouldnt want to be in that situation.

I can say, I really dont like the RE-92's and I want to change them out as soon as I get the money. I was driving in the rain and I started to hydroplane. I had taken the same route MANY times with my Dodge Caravan and very low tire tread on some michellen tires at the same speed and NEVER hydroplaned, it was just shocking to me how bad the tires can be.

BUT, with that said, it also depends on the driving, conditions, ect. If you drive very carefully it shouldnt be a problem. Things cannot be completely blamed on the tires, but they are something to consider replacing.

As for the insurance, yea, its gonna skyrocket. Suprisingly I went from my caravan at $180 a month with a perfect driving record (that was starting out... after the first year and a LOT of discounts -- defensive driving, good drivers discount, ect...-- it went down to $120 a month) Then when I got the Leggy, my insurance only went back to $148 a month. Yes, its high, and I really dont understand how it wasnt outrageously priced compared to the van. Well, I dont fully understand how insurance was that much on the van either... hrmmm... But, the insurance didnt jump up that much comparatively speaking when I got my Leggy.

But, being as how you are under 25 and male, its an automatic horrible insurance category. Any tickets, accidents, ect can place you in a bad situation with insurance. Good luck with that anyways.

As for the damage, it looks bad if you just glance at it, but most likely it will be repairable. Its just gonna cost a pretty penny.

Overall though, good luck... take some of the driving courses, not for the fact that you are inexperienced, but because it will help a LOT on insurance.

[BoxerGT2.5]

yes, but I did that in an environment that was prepared for such things, not to mention that I do deal with my own problems and tackle the situation head-on (no pun intended).

 

 

Thats the point. If you can't control a car in ideal conditions (track), then what "right" do you have to tell this kid he "should know so and so" when the conditions he encountered were less than ideal. You couldn't control the car on a track when all you had to worry about was driving it....thats it! 100% focus on driving the car with no outside circumstances to interfer. Out on the street there alot more things to contend with that hitting a cone or flying into a wall of tires. Your right you did tackle the situation head on...I've seen the pictures.

[Xenonk]

so, you didn't get the insurance company to pay for the car once you totalled it? If that's the case, then good man Keefe!! You didn't screw the rest of us by lying to your insurance company and passing the costs onto other WRX owners in the way of jacked up premiums. That's honesty and integrity at it's best.

 

 

no I did claim it as an at-fault (it's no different of a driver choosing to drive, in other words, putting yourself at risk), my case of a learning driving class, my insurance went up with a charged at fault (1st claim on the total, and I've been with the company for 10 years now). and it's also based on the insurance company's decision if I was allowed to be on the policy or not. For my first incident with the WRX (fender bender), I paid that out of pocket because I know there is no need to jack everyone's insurance on a driveable car.

 

Long story short, the insurance company recognized that I was a car-control clinic and it was not a timed event (ie racing of any sort). I still pay the penalty (eventhough if you did add up to all the preimums I paid out since 1996, I am sure that's more than enough to cover the cost of my WRX and then some (yet I still have a surcharge of $10/month for the at-fault incident for the next 3 years until the record is cleared with my insurance company).

 

There are race-car and racing insurance you can get, so get those if you plan to do what I do. Otherwise, please think twice if it's worth the trip to head down to the convienent store.. along the way, you are at risk the moment you sit in the car. Nowadays, I think twice about where I want to go and who's driving. I still rack up tons of miles, but I do think about the rain, snow, and time of day (being on the road late night with drunk drivers is also a risk eventhough you are not drinking.. they can hit you too.. it's a loss-loss situation.. you'll have to file a lawsuit and win your claim to make it a win-loss situation. For Alex's case, the pole and Mother nature won. If you had to look back, did Alex really needed to take the back roads after a snowy day? Was that trip worth the risk?

 

Nevertheless, it comes down to this of what the insurance company will see: how much of a risk is the driver? Is it worth keeping the driver insured? If it is, how much?

 

There are some thing s to think about.. as stated before there is a LOT more liability to deal with (as some of you may have read about me with providing driving lessons).. even me becoming an instructor I think about if it's worth sitting in the car with some of you guys and trying to teach you something.. I am risking my life to teach you something that is suppose to help you out.. I am at a point that when I really think about it, my life is worth more than that and I really don't trust people's driving (no offense to even the good drivers out there). I know I am not behind the wheel, so already I am not at ease.

[PGT]

man, you should never leave the house then!

 

I was in a very bad accident back when I was 17....totally blindsided and hit head on with zero time to react (110 mph of combined speed). I couldn't walk for a few days and bear a permanent scar from the incident. I was back driving within a week though - my dad made sure of that, so as to not lose my confidence. It took me a few years to get comfortable not being in control of the car while riding shotgun though, but that's life.

[Xenonk]

Thats the point. If you can't control a car in ideal conditions (track), then what "right" do you have to tell this kid he "should know so and so" when the conditions he encountered were less than ideal. You couldn't control the car on a track when all you had to worry about was driving it....thats it! 100% focus on driving the car with no outside circumstances to interfer. Out on the street there alot more things to contend with that hitting a cone or flying into a wall of tires. Your right you did tackle the situation head on...I've seen the pictures.

 

if that's the case, why bother to drive? The track is the most ideal place to drive even at slow speeds, it doesnt get any better than that. Public roads are the worst. it's a choice to drive is it not? you can weigh out the circumstances as much as you want, I chose to endanger myself in an ideal environment.. and making the choice to go out in lesser ideal conditions makes it ok to mess up? And what I was doing is something that shouldnt be done on open roads.

 

my point is that I had the "right" to voice my opinion. I know Alex already said 'save the BS and flaming' and so I did, but at least he needs to know what happen in the process. It's not fun wrecking cars over and over again and not learn from it, especially if you are surviving every time.

 

If he chooses to ignore advice, that's fine too. I dont have to say anything or post anything. If people need to learn it the hard way and not listen to people that have experienced such things first hand, why have schools? why have an institution of learning? why not just live a life of solitude and learn it all on your own?

 

 

Alex, you'll be fine, the car isn't going to be totalled. It's going to be fixed, and I doubt the frame is bent that bad, it will be pulled, but it will never be the same again. I would suggest to take a car control clinlic such as:

http://www.bmwccafoundation.org/ss2005/ssImages/FullLogo28565.gif

http://www.bmwccafoundation.org/ss2005/ssImages/SSLogo_240t.gif

 

http://www.bmwccafoundation.org/ss2005/index.asp

 

as you are already aware that you dont have much experience behind the wheel in different conditions. Take the time and may be take the class, it will help you prepare you for the future. Knowledge is the key to good car control. Without it, you're no better than any crash dummy, so don't be one.

 

Be safe.

[Aczwild]

man, you should never leave the house then!

 

I was in a very bad accident back when I was 17....totally blindsided and hit head on with zero time to react (110 mph of combined speed). I couldn't walk for a few days and bear a permanent scar from the incident. I was back driving within a week though - my dad made sure of that, so as to not loose my confidence. It took me a few years to get comfortable not being in control of the car while riding shotgun though, but that's life.

Man I've never been in an accident (moving, except a plane crash), but I still hate sitting in the passenger seat. I hate not being incontrol of the car, sooooo bad.

[emorphien]

Man I've never been in an accident (moving, except a plane crash), but I still hate sitting in the passenger seat. I hate not being incontrol of the car, sooooo bad.

I'm not comfortable as a passenger 99% of the time. Only a few drivers I can trust.

 

More often than not I have been the chauffeur for friends and family when heading out. I preferred it that way, and they seemed to as well.

[Xenonk]

Man I've never been in an accident (moving, except a plane crash), but I still hate sitting in the passenger seat. I hate not being incontrol of the car, sooooo bad.

 

So now you know what car instructors feel like.. they are actually risking their lives and trusting the student drivers.. that's why I appreciate my instructors (track or not).

[StringFellow]

In my old Civic LX with a fairly decent set of Michelin tires ABS would routinely engage at one stop on my commute if I hit a small pothole while breaking even on absolutely dry surface. I would break from a low speed and ABS would rattle off for a couple of seconds. It is just hard to believe that I had a locked wheel in this situation. I drive LGT far more aggressively than the old Civic and I never had ABS getting engaged not only at that same spot but at all so far. Could it not be some deficiency in ABS itself on some cars like that Civic?

 

Let me clarify your statements regarding ABS. ABS is designed to PREVENT wheel lockup. If a wheel locks up, your ABS is not doing its job.

 

Per "Howstuffworks.com":

 

 

A controller monitors the speed sensors at all times. It is looking for decelerations in the wheel that are out of the ordinary. Right before a wheel locks up, it will experience a rapid deceleration. If left unchecked, the wheel would stop much more quickly than any car could. It might take a car five seconds to stop from 60 mph (96.6 kph) under ideal conditions, but a wheel that locks up could stop spinning in less than a second. The ABS controller knows that such a rapid deceleration is impossible, so it reduces the pressure to that brake until it sees an acceleration, then it increases the pressure until it sees the deceleration again. It can do this very quickly, before the tire can actually significantly change speed. The result is that the tire slows down at the same rate as the car, with the brakes keeping the tires very near the point at which they will start to lock up. This gives the system maximum braking power.

 

-S

[Xenonk]

You can lock up a wheel PRIOR to the ABS is engaging (it will sense it), the ABS unit will release the brake force (or pulsates) accordlingly to allow the wheel to continue to roll to ensure car control.. it DOES NOT mean the car will stop shorter. This is all related to the traction circle law:

 

http://www.roadtrip2000.com/roadtrip2002/images/TractionCircle.gif

 

if you spend all your Tire's grip on braking, you wont be able to turn. If you turn too much, you won't have enough grip to brake, it's just that simple.

 

100% grip = x% amount of braking + y% amount of turning

 

Anything over 100% grip is either drifting or spinning (understeer or oversteer).

 

Anything under 100% grip is a controllable situation for the driver, but it's up to the driver to know how to use the grip that is allowed by the tires.

 

Active stability uses individual braking bias to each tire, to make sure that the car is heading in the right direction by in-car accelerometers and the likes. You can be full on the gas through a turn, but when active stability kicks in, it can distribute braking on the inside tires to make sure the car's outside tires spin faster to compensate for the g-forces and larger radius of travel, it can also happen the opposite way when the car senses drifting and it will slow down the outside tires to keep the car moving forward.. this is all done by the car's sensors and ECU to know what your steering angles, vechicle speed, engine speed, g-forces, throttle pedal sensors, and even ambient temperatures and tire pressures.

[BoxerGT2.5]

if that's the case, why bother to drive? The track is the most ideal place to drive even at slow speeds, it doesnt get any better than that. Public roads are the worst. it's a choice to drive is it not? you can weigh out the circumstances as much as you want, I chose to endanger myself in an ideal environment.. and making the choice to go out in lesser ideal conditions makes it ok to mess up? And what I was doing is something that shouldnt be done on open roads.

 

my point is that I had the "right" to voice my opinion. I know Alex already said 'save the BS and flaming' and so I did, but at least he needs to know what happen in the process. It's not fun wrecking cars over and over again and not learn from it, especially if you are surviving every time.

 

 

Re-read your post. "I have the right to give you heat". If thats your definition of an opinion than we must be living in two totally different worlds.

 

My point is not to drive. My point is someone who can't control their own car has no business giving anyone "Heat" for failing to control theirs in conditions a hell of alot more adverse than a warm up lap at the track. You assume we all don't know how to drive. That assumption gets a little tiring after a while.

[meatwad]

i have 2 things to say..glad you are ok..and nows the best time to do the headlight clearing..the car wont be totalled p.s.

Word.

 

Alex, first of I would like to echo the sentiments that you, personally, are ok. Most of the given advice is perfect, but I would like to add something that happened to me as a young driver that should hopefully help you feel less like you are alone in early driving mistakes.

 

I ran over a guy on a bicycle.

 

No, I am not kidding. Before anyone panics, it was a glancing blow and no one was seriously injured (I think the guy had a minor ankle sprain). I was 17-18 and driving my '68 Mustang. If you think our Leg's climate control is bad, try no climate control. The heater worked, but the ducting sucked, so many days the windows were frosted/foggy most of the way to school. I was running late (what else is new) and as I was turning onto a highway, I blocked a this guy on his bike (didn't see him) and he bounced off the passenger side of my car. He fell, slid into the nearby, shallow ditch. To be honest, I didn't even know for sure that I hit him...and didn't stop. Blissfully unaware that I was now wanted by the cops, I dropped my sister off at her school and went to mine. An hour later I was called down to the office and had a little chat with the police. Very dramatic.

 

The repercusions? I had to buy the guy a new bike. As far as I know, there was no submission to the insurance and no offical police report. If there had been, technically, I had comittted a hit-and-run and would have gone to jail. The lesson was learned in that crystalizing moment of sheer terror when I confronted my vice-principal and a local police officer though.

 

It is easy to get distracted.

 

It is easy to hurt others by your attention, or lack there of.

 

Good luck with your repairs, learn your particular lesson, and be glad you didn't run over anyone.

[emorphien]

This forum has degenerated in to too many stupid arguments lately where everyone assumes they're right (and that they understand all weather, road and traffic conditions without seeing them) or that every issue is black or white.

[Hanger]

wow your car sustained more dmg than mine...and i ran into a Explorer. I got 3600 from insurance to fix it, i believe it was hood, 2 headlights, 2 fog lamps, front bumper, radiator, grille and labor.

 

thank god no one was hurt, becareful next time

[Xenonk]

Re-read your post. "I have the right to give you heat". If thats your definition of an opinion than we must be living in two totally different worlds.

 

My point is not to drive. My point is someone who can't control their own car has no business giving anyone "Heat" for failing to control theirs in conditions a hell of alot more adverse than a warm up lap at the track. You assume we all don't know how to drive. That assumption gets a little tiring after a while.

 

Anyone here has the right to voice out an opinion, it's just that simple, dont deny that portion of freedom of speech.

 

Ok, it's not a problem to stop the "people dont know how to drive" attitude, but it doesnt help him to let Alex here know what did happen so that he doesnt have to have this happen again. I already posted all the info that he had questions about. I dont have to assume anything about people here about their driving, good or bad, that's not my problem if they know or do not know, but if I have information on the subject, I will post about it. If you think my information is BS, just say it is and I'll just not post or answer PMs.

[BLACKonBLACK Limited]

yeah well, i can act nice to my parents but i have always paid for my insurance, so thats still going to be on me. 1.5 months, is crazy. how many cars were infront of yours at the shop you took it to? i know that there are only 2 cars infront of mine at the shop i brought mine to.

-alex

 

lol your car is messed up 5 times worse than mine was (got rear ended) it took 1.5 months with 1 car in front of me in the shop. I'm glad they took there time cause it came out perfect cant see a ripple or seem at all in the panels..

[coxx]

I'd feel bad for you if you didnt ask for the invoice on a spec B. that sounds sooooo bad

[Nsaglibene]

Well, just be happy you are alive and that you only hit a pole, it could only get worse if you hit someone else. Realize that its too hard nowadays to avoid an accident and everyone here has been in an accident and if not they will be someday. No one's words should get you down because they alll have done the same things. I am also 17 and was in an accident over a year ago, i was just driving home from school crossing an intersection going the limit, 30, and out from a stop sign came a 88 year old man. There was no time to do anything I pressed the brakes but even if I was going under the speed limit I would not have stopped in time. Im just lucky it wasnt my fault at all. Well it also shows that even the experience of an 88 year old doesnt hold up:icon_bigg . Just shows the risk there is to driving, inside any car can be a potential harzard and you really have to watch. As for the weather I refuse to drive in any sort of snow its just pointless, and I hate when people speed in the rain. Those must be the people that havent been in accidents yet and still need to learn. You should see how much the damage is, if its not too much you might wanna pay for it yourself even if your parents will help and you can pay them back. Well, good luck and feel better.

[Th3Franz]

Darn, my insurance just went down $300 every six months too this period! Oh well, glad you are ok and learn from it.

[BoxerGT2.5]

Anyone here has the right to voice out an opinion, it's just that simple, dont deny that portion of freedom of speech.

 

Ok, it's not a problem to stop the "people dont know how to drive" attitude, but it doesnt help him to let Alex here know what did happen so that he doesnt have to have this happen again. I already posted all the info that he had questions about. I dont have to assume anything about people here about their driving, good or bad, that's not my problem if they know or do not know, but if I have information on the subject, I will post about it. If you think my information is BS, just say it is and I'll just not post or answer PMs.

 

 

Again, our definition of opinions must be very different. I'm not denying you anything. Say what you will, but I'm simply pointing out the pot calling the kettle black. Don't give "heat" to someone because you feel you have the right to. What right? And wether you know it or not, you do assume many of us don't know what the hell were doing in a car because we don't talk about what we do on a minute to minute basis. (go back and reread some of your posts)

 

Your right in one thing, you should stop the "people don't know how to drive" attitude. It comes off as pompous and self-righteous.