Lgt vs MS6 personal experience

[emorphien]

words

wow pwned, but it all makes sense.

 

I still want to drive one but I'm curious about many things related to how it'll perform year round and so on and so forth. I bet it'll be a nice highway cruiser!

[Renesis8]

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=8218

 

There is ducting yes but how much air you think is gonna move through 2 plastic ducts when loafing around town. Not much if any.

 

The openings are quite large if u ask me, and if this picture does not show it clearly, the two ductings connect to the grille in front, and they draw air from the ENTIRE grille opening

 

http://www.triplezoom.com/gallery/albums//03%20Events/Industry/Paris/2004/Mazda%206%20MPS/006.jpg

 

The ducts do not exactly sit on top of the radiator, there is a plastic piece above radiator, and even if the plastic piece does not exist, the ducts are sealed and away from the engine compartment, head convection would have little effect on a moving air mass. (temps would drop factions of a degree max), at idle, all IC would be exposed to heat from the engine anyways.

 

 

Additionally we know in order to acheive ventalation the IC must have free flowing space in front of and behind it. Behind the Ms6 IC there is an engine a firewall and hot exhaust side components.

 

Yes you are right, the MSP6 does have little room behind the IC, but if you look at the first pic, the air goes into the IC at an angle, and the IC is mounted at an angle

http://www.clubatenza.com/galleries/albums/userpics/10038/normal_PB020053.JPG

 

Yes... looking from the first pic, you'll see no room AT ALL, but the above pic shows there is some, probably more if you remove that plastic piece.

 

http://www.clubatenza.com/galleries/albums/userpics/10038/normal_PB020054.JPG

And the turbo and exhaust are indeed not too far(very close actually) below the IC, that'll generate intense heat, but the MSP6 has got a huge front nose so I believe the ventilation wont be as bad, with air moving across the engine and air moving down from the IC, that should push the air below the car.

 

Additionaly, there is actually a 2-3inch hood gap where the hoodline is rising from the bottom of the windshield, that should also provide some ventilation.

 

This car will have no turbo spool beyond 4k i believe... (dont quote me on this tho) if the ECU detects anything less than 93, so 93 octane is a must.

 

p.s. the rear diff on the MSP6 is watercooled, so I'll have to say it is pretty performance oriented, and it is not a FWD only car most the time, it'll switch to AWD under heavy acceleration too, not just slip

 

I am not trying to defend this car here, but I just want to really show you guys that ventilation isnt a major concern about this car.

[RobY]

2/3 of the intercooler is sitting above the motor. All of the corrugated heat exchange area is sitting above the valve cover.

 

The intercooler wont work by drawing air over the top of it. Air must be directed through the core. Through the core means it must flow through the corrugated part onto the valve cover where there is no room.

 

Turbo manifolds glow RED hot when pushed. Were talking about over 1200 degrees at the manifold and over 500 degrees a few inches ambient to the area. That turbo will be cooking.

 

Im not saying subaru designed its TMIC perfect. In fact no TMIC is perfect. Its just a flawed concept to begin with.

 

However if you look at the area under the subaru TMIC there is alot of room. Additionally the hoodscoop has a splitter on it to direct air to the turbo to ventalate the radiant heat. Additionally from the hoodscoop there is a plate that directs air straight through the core.

 

http://www.harmanmotive.com/index.php?src=photo&srctype=lister&album=Kevin%2020G%20LGT&submenu=Gallery&albumpos=0,100000,29#

 

Heres a good example of the Legacy's intercooler position. You can see where the IC is mounted and when it is removed for an FMIC how the area behind it is pretty much empty.

[Lil_Sol]

I have some questions about the mazdaspeed6

 

I saw that it comes with 215 45 18 tires....

how big are the calipers? is it possible to put 17... or MAYBE 16 inch rims without the same issues as the Legacy GT in spacing and so forth?

[LittleBlueGT]

Calipers are single piston sliders. Not as big as ours.

[melayout]

Single piston sliders infront? damnn thats puny!

[LittleBlueGT]

I think the stock brakes may have a better feel then ours, but pads alone would likely take care of that.

 

Pads, lines, and fluid would definitely give a better braking system then pads, lines and fluid on a MS6.

[RobY]

Its not how many pistons you have its how you use it (size matters).

 

A single piston is perfectly capable of producing the same amount of clamp force as a 2 piston, 4 piston, 8 piston, 30 piston caliper.

 

Its all about hydraulic mechanical advantage and how you bias the slave and master cylnders.

 

The advantage is that more pistons means you can run a bigger pad without sacrificing too much rigidity. And run your pads more outboard to the rotor, thus is less likely to overheat when you track the car.

 

A single piston many times will have more bite because of the smaller pad it is wearing. It digs into the rotor instead of planing over it. The disadvantage is reduced heat capacity and wear.

[imperator]

This review doesn't make too much sense to me. IMHO the "seat-of-the-pants-meter" isn't as reliable as raw numbers when comparing different cars..

 

AutoWeek, the only place I could find a review of a base, non-limited, manual LGT got a 0-60 of 5.2 sec and a 1/4 mi of 13.95sec. My own timed runs have my LGT faster than my old stock 2002 WRX.

 

The only numbers I could find for the MSP6 was 0-60 in 6.2sec and 1/4 mi in 14.7sec.

 

If the Mazda gets reviewed as doing less than 5.2sec to 60 then hats off, they're doing something right.

 

When I bought my LGT I drove both the limited wagon and base sedan, and I thought there was a big difference in acceleration. After all there is a big difference in weight, with the sedan manual non-limited LGT being the almost the same as an STI. (I got the base model).

 

Perhaps it's from aan auto wagon's perspective that this comparison was based. Otherwise I'm confused...

 

PS: the LGT handles better??? Considering the poor numbers that a stock LGT puts down in this category, the Mazda must be AWFUL.

[deimos]

This review doesn't make too much sense to me. IMHO the "seat-of-the-pants-meter" isn't as reliable as raw numbers when comparing different cars..

 

AutoWeek, the only place I could find a review of a base, non-limited, manual LGT got a 0-60 of 5.2 sec and a 1/4 mi of 13.95sec. My own timed runs have my LGT faster than my old stock 2002 WRX.

 

The autoweek LGT was Limited not Base trim.

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102657

 

When the rags get instrumented tests well likely see similar if not better numbers than the LGT.

[imperator]

my bad, says "base" in the sticker section at the bottom. As in "base" ltd.

 

If that car does less than 13.95 1/4mi it would be really surprising. There's no reason to think Mazda's numbers are off by more than a second for 0-60

[eles1]

i believe Boxer's observation is validated, as it appears heatsoak was NOT the issue with early reports of power loss:

 

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=43875

 

uh huh... So it's not a manufacturer defect, as you had originally implied??

 

here is one person who has experienced an "unwelcome" malfunctioning turbo AND an "unwelcome" problem clutch on his mazdaspeed6 within the first week of ownership:

 

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=43132

[neelnug]

I thought it was interesting how owners are complaining about huge power loss due to using lower grade gas. They said going from 93-91 actually shows a decent loss... and low grade takes sucks 80hp. Im sure our legacys wouldnt like drinking 87 but I can't image a large loss like that... and I doubt there is much of a loss going from 93-91 unless under extreme conditions (or higher tunes)

[melayout]

IMO, Mazda tuned the MPS6 as much as possible reliably because it doesn't have any fastAr product in its line, while Subaru didn't because that would come too close to the WRX STi's performance and that's a big nono.

 

I hate cats, I wanna kill em all.

[TDC Tuning]

Especially if Subaru doesn't step up and fix some of the annoying little problems with which we're all too familiar.

Every car has those, in 5 mos people on the MS6 boards will be whining about something

[emorphien]

Every car has those, in 5 mos people on the MS6 boards will be whining about something

precisely

[psucaptainkickass]

So I drove the MS6 over lunch. (the model with all the options)

Likes:

Seats

Steering Wheel

Shifter

Smooth ride, nice suspension, very little bumpiness

 

Dislikes:

High hood line, the hood is def in the way while driving

 

The nav system is out of reach of your hands while driving, so they have this remote control thing next to the shifter...it is cheaply made and looks just cheap.

 

The shiny gray plastic sux

The shiny black plastic sux

I feel that the dash material is on the whole cheap looking...its the same material on the 6, I thought it was cheap then, its still cheap now.

 

The clutch is very light...too light even, I couldn't start it smoothly. (Feels like you are pushing down on a bar or something)

 

It might be fast..but I couldn't feel it. (The car was the dealer demo and had like 700 miles on it, so they weren't nervous of me pushing it a bit) In our cars, second gear feel phenomenal, in this car, not so phenomenal.

 

For as big the car was I felt a little claustropobic. I think that was because of the HUGE hood line. I felt that I was looking up and over it..like it was in my field of vision. Totally different feel than the LGT.

 

 

Basically I drove the MS6 as a kind of validation test drive for me. I was waiting and waiting and waiting for mazda to release this thing..and I couldn't wait anymore so I got the LGT, and after driving the MS6 I am throughly happy with my purchase. The LGT fits my needs perfectly, and I guess that is what it comes down to in the end.

 

One MAJOR gripe with the MS6 was this so called "Advanced Start system"

Basically, take your key fob (with the unlock, lock, and panic buttons), smash it into a credit card sized card, and separate it from the key. Now, this "card" needs to be within the vehicle to start the car. You still have your key of course...its in the ignition, and there is some sort of receiver that sticks out of the key, the key itself doesn't have a loop or anything for you to put it on a key chain.

So basically, to unlock your car remotely, you need to push unlock on this "card", open the door, and turn the ignition.

Two issues come up with this system:

If the key is going to be in the car to begin with, and it needs to communicate with this "smart card", then why even have a key? Just built that receiver into the car, and have a start button ala newer luxury cars. That only works when the card is within the vehicle.

If you want to have a traditional key system, then why make the damn "smart card" so big? Make it the size of our FOBs so everything fits nicely in your pocket.

 

 

Oh yeah and it doesn't have that Subie WHINE when you accelerate, that's so addictive...go Subie go!

[camber]

High hood line, the hood is def in the way while driving

 

The whole car has a high beltline. That another reason why I like the legacy so much. So many new cars have this high beltline for styling and safety reasons. The Legacy beltline has stayed nice and low since it was first introduced.

 

I think it makes the car look just that much better and not look like a bloated jelly bean.

[awe25gt]

+1 wow ^^^^^^my thoughts exactly

[Duke of Lawnchair]

The whole car has a high beltline. That another reason why I like the legacy so much. So many new cars have this high beltline for styling and safety reasons. The Legacy beltline has stayed nice and low since it was first introduced.

 

I think it makes the car look just that much better and not look like a bloated jelly bean.

 

Absolutely.

 

Couldn't have said it better.

[GraysonSubaru]

I dont know if it has been posted on here or not yet, but in talking with the Subaru rep the other day, in the next few years, the impreza will be bigger (about the size of current legacy models) and the Legacy will also get bigger. I have a mixed feeling about this. the WRX is the size it should be. I do not think it would do as well as a bigger vehicle unless the power output is greatly increased and it will have to be a good looking vehicle for the under 30 crowd to drool over as they have with prev WRX models.

 

as for the legacy getting bigger...just how much bigger would be a big key..and what kind of powerplant and pricing are we looking at. he said they have not really said much in detail about it but talked about both growing in size in the future.

[GraysonSubaru]

I cant see putting down $30k plus for mazda. It may win some magazine and subjective drivers tests, but why buy one new when you can wait a year or two and buy one for $16k? Mazda makes a great vehicle for the most part (I worked for them for 4 years and owned 3 of them -- 99 Miata ls, 02 protege 5 and 2001 tribute ex 4x4). Good vehicles, bad resale. Subaru may not have the resale of a BMW, but at least in our area and where I grew up near pittsburgh, PA...having a used subaru on the lot is hard to do and they bring all kinds of money...we almost never trade for one for book value...if/when we can get someone to trade one instead of keeping it, giving it to one of their kids, relatives, neighbors, etc

[imperator]

post a bigger pic of your avatar... looks sweet

[psucaptainkickass]

I think a slightly larger Impreza would be welcomed. In looking for my LGT I contemplated an STi, but its just to small. I don't want to have a 4 seat car, and not be able to have people sit comfortably inside it. Yes, I know the STi is a performance rally car, but they should have just made it two doors if they didn't want people to sit in the back. A slight bump in rear space, maybe 4-5 inches would have swayed me.

 

With the Legacy, I think it could also stand to gain a few inches. Not much though, I like the styling the way it is. The car seems to be "contained" within its lines, and not "overflowing". It think the MS6 is overflowing, I think the Altima SE-R is "overflowing". I am not sure if "contained" or "overflowing" are the right words, its just what comes to mind when I picture it in my head.

[GraysonSubaru]

if you are talking to me... here ya go. I dont have this car anymore, but did not have any pictures of the new LGT at the time and just have been too lazy to put a new avatar up..

 

yes, I know it looks like there is a big gap between the fender and front tire, but that is only because of how the car is sitting on the driveway hill. It actually sat great on the Eibach prokit that is/was on the car.