Lgt vs MS6 personal experience

[FARIS]

C&R, and any sampling data, is highly unreliable because of all of the mitigating factors that are involved.

1) you need to have a problem to report

2) you have to be the type of person to report it

3) you have to be the type of person to report it to c&d or whatever service

 

Not many people actually go to the third step creating an unreliable sample.

 

My wife's 97 jetta was ranked moderatly in reliability from C&D and it is a peice, and every one that I have spoke to about their jetta has stated the same thing.

[imperator]

If that's the case, the mitigating factors apply to all brands equally in the survey. This is a valid statistical method even though imperfect since the same method is used for each manufacturer. The survey assigns relative position, not raw numbers, and in this way the assay is "normalized" among the test set.

 

It's all relative, having the best rating must mean that it's at the very least above average.

[FARIS]

I suppose

With that I guess it still goes with word of mouth and personal emperical data studies.

[eles1]

I wonder why I thought you said a Cobalt equals or outperforms a LGT?

 

Must've been because you said it...

 

I think you're too upset over your lemon to discuss this objectively. Those cars are all substantially slower.

 

You need to visit a 1/4 mile track, my friend. The Cobalt SS (the supercharged version) is easily as fast as the LGT in the 1/4. An SRT-4 is definitely faster than an LGT. The others on my list are very close to performance to the LGT. Most all on that list are of equal or lower price as well. Look into it for yourself, you'll see I'm right.

 

This thread is so far off topic at this point that it's practically worthless. If you wish to continue this little "discussion", you'll have to do so on your own...

[melayout]

You need to visit a 1/4 mile track, my friend. The Cobalt SS (the supercharged version) is easily as fast as the LGT in the 1/4. An SRT-4 is definitely faster than an LGT. The others on my list are very close to performance to the LGT. Most all on that list are of equal or lower price as well. Look into it for yourself, you'll see I'm right.

 

Sure if you're looking for the most performance for your buck.

 

I guess you don't care about overall reliablity, fit&finish, safety, interior space and AWD, but others do.

[emorphien]

Sure if you're looking for the most performance for your buck.

 

I guess you don't care about overall reliablity, fit&finish, safety, interior space and AWD, but others do.

 

Seriously, the straight line performance of the car hardly factors in to my decision to buy it. It can be a 7 second car, or an 8 second, I'm much more interested in how it drives plus a whole host of other issues.

[eles1]

Seriously, the straight line performance of the car hardly factors in to my decision to buy it. It can be a 7 second car, or an 8 second, I'm much more interested in how it drives plus a whole host of other issues.

 

I couldn't agree more. I'm simply pointing out that this statement:

 

Those cars are all substantially slower.

 

Is wrong.

Now I'm done with this thread for real.

[imperator]

You need to visit a 1/4 mile track, my friend. The Cobalt SS (the supercharged version) is easily as fast as the LGT in the 1/4.

 

ok thanks

 

The difference in price between the typical 14 sec car and a 13 second car can be massive. The reason is because that most people consider a second difference in the 1/4 mi substantial, and to some it's worth paying a premium.

 

You don't and that's ok, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it as am I. I consider a 0.5-1.0 sec difference to be considerable.

 

With this in mind, the numbers I've seen for the Cobalt SS place it at 14.5 to 15.0 sec. In your mind this is "easily as fast " as the tested 13.95-14.2 for the LGT. That's fine, your tolerances are a little looser than mine when quantifying performance.

 

We disagree, get over it. :rollseyes:

 

Performance may not be significant to you guys, but I enjoy driving fast cars immensely, and I can appreciate the difference. If you don't then hey, more power to you, have fun in your "just as good" Cobalt and make sure your doors are closed properly when I'm passing you.

[melayout]

Hahahaaa :lol: :lol:

 

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=46672&st=0

 

CN - They need to run 104 octane or a HOOD SCOOP to stop the car from limping.

[The B4]

I wonder what our cars would do with a bag of ice on the intercooler, gale force winds, and 104 octane gas?

 

Some have said the Ms6 would be a good car if you didn't plan on modding. Looks like you'd have to spend some dough just to enjoy what the car should do from the factory.

 

The Mazda 6 was not engineered from the beginning to be a MS6... and it shows.

[RobY]

I posted somthing there about mazda's track record for "creative horsepower estimates" and I got flamed for being a subie fanboi.

 

Im not gonna say anything now that its true.

[BoxerGT2.5]

I wonder what our cars would do with a bag of ice on the intercooler, gale force winds, and 104 octane gas?

 

Some have said the Ms6 would be a good car if you didn't plan on modding. Looks like you'd have to spend some dough just to enjoy what the car should do from the factory.

 

The Mazda 6 was not engineered from the beginning to be a MS6... and it shows.

 

 

 

A stock car should run with little probs.

 

In the case of the MS6, I feel for the guys, it has to be discouraging to expect so much of this car in terms of power, and then find out it's takin a shit every 30min.

[SBT]

Frankly, I'm disappointed for all the owners who waited for this car. But, I'm not surprised as this car was poorly engineered to deliver what it was hyped up to deliver.

 

SBT

[BoxerGT2.5]

Should of just supercharged the thing and been done with it.

[RobY]

Oh man... Mazda did it again...

 

You got 274 horsepower... just kidding... Oh shit not again...

 

 

 

I know you all love your cars but I would bring this issue up with Mazda and complain why it is only producing the rated horsepower with a sack of ice on the intercooler running racegas with gale force winds blowing directly on top of the intercooler and motor and through the ice sitting on top of the IC.

 

It upsets me to see this yet AGAIN on another mazda product. Mazda claims that it is looking at creative ways to make more horsepower but I don't think this is what we all had in mind.

 

Call up mazda and bitch, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the oil and we all deserve some oil. This is the real world there is no white knight. You will either have to pay out of your bum to sombody who claims to be "a white knight" or beat the snot out of who is responsible for shorting you in the first place. I prefer option 2.

 

Unlike some here, my car does not seem to give a rats ass as to whether it has been started and restarted or not. On 93 octane pump gas, sometimes it runs well, and others there is noticeably less horsepower/torque on tap. Turning it off, and restarting it immediately following an instance of powerloss, has done nothing for my car. Believe me, I've tried it. There is NO rhyme or reason, highway, city driving, stop and go...whatever, as to when my car misbehaves.

 

Now, to clarify pull #5, Runs 1-4 were made with a bag of ice sitting on top of the I/C. Even with the bag sitting on top of the I/C, it was still soo hot, you could not lay your hand on it for more than a few seconds before having to remove it. When the ice was still in the bag, it wasn't doing a damn thing to cool off the I/C, or remove heat from it. It wasn't until we took the ice out of the bag, and placed it directly onto the I/C that it made any noticeable difference. Once again, the ice was only there for a matter of minutes(5 maybe--just long enough to take the heatsoak out of the I/C). We simply wanted to see exactly how the motor would react with the I/C closer to ambient temps. I was excited to see that the car had the POTENTIAL to produce good power, while simultaneously being frustrated, due to the obvious realization that it is impossible to achieve these figures in the real world. However, the fact that it picked up 33 TOTAL WHP, with increased octane, and an I/C closer to ambient air temp(as opposed to underhood temps), at least tells us the motor could be capable of producing at least advertised HP.

 

I was also equally encouraged by the car picking up basically 20 WHP by simply adding 3 gallons of higher octane fuel(pull #3). While I am not happy that it takes fricking race gas to get the car to run the way it should have from the factory, I am at least somewhat comforted, knowing that a few gallons of 100-104 octane gas does keep the detonation at bay, and allow the engine to do what it was meant to do in the first damn place.

[BoxerGT2.5]

Now they're whining about getting killed in R&T's auto X testing.

[TbirdJayC]

from the MS6 board

 

"I don't see what good are these dyno numbers, if it takes a bag of ice to achieve them...."

 

"On my way out the door for work...key's check, wallet check, briefcase check, bag of ice and 20 min to let the IC cool..."

 

Prob not actual MS6 owners, but still funny and embarassing!

 

:lol:

 

Actually that was me who said that. I was half joking, but i am currently trying to decide on a new car and was considering the MS6 and the LGT-B. Neither are worth what they want for them, and neither seem to be selling at all, so i'm waiting for desperation to set in.

[melayout]

The LGT SpecB is a limited edition while the MS6 is not.

 

You can get the normal manual LGT for 25-26K(even 23-24K for year-end leftovers) and modify it to outhandle the Spec B for much less, unless you specifically want the integrated NAV, red leather and Bilstein suspension.

[TbirdJayC]

I am interested in Nav and manual trans, so the Spec-B is the only comparable Subie. Additionally, I really like the titanium color that comes with the Spec-B. I'm not 17 anymore (25), and my modding days are probably behind me now. And if I'm gonna lay ~30k down for a performance car, I don't want to be doing much modding anyway. Modding was cool when the car cost me $2000.

 

The limited edition argument is a moot point. They aren't selling at all. The Subie dealer down the street from me has 3, 2 of which haven't even made it out of the storage lot yet. The 3rd, barely turned over when i went to look at it, so i dont think too many people have been test driving it. Story was the same with the Mazda.

 

Honestly, as far as im concerned, they are the same car. It will come down to whichever ends up being a better deal. However this heat soak issue with the MS6 has me leaning toward subie.

[melayout]

I think you'll find that modding with respect to Subbies is different. It's not a matter of being unique or cool, but the ability to get more from simple relatively cheap upgrades(springs, exhaust).

 

Seach for "mazda speed 6" and you'll find a few threads on head2head comparos.

[hifiandmtb]

This is my personal experience - not everyone may agree, but these are comments made based on an Australian-spec MPS (our badging for a MazdaSpeed6 - seems all cars in Australia are badged differently!).

 

Please disregard the pricing - all you need to know is that the GT is very similarly priced to the MPS down-under:

 

Well, I decided to have another look at the Mazda6/MPS today so I dropped into the dealership at Rockdale & had a good 15 min look at the grey MPS in the showroom.

 

I actually ended up leaving the showroom feeling rather angry. Angry at the contempt that Mazda is demonstrating to their customers. No - this is not related to the sales people. This is related to the "engineered to a price" attitude they have applied to all Mazda6 models - especially the MPS.

 

Cost-cutting on the MPS is rife...after you study the finish carefully, you come to the conclusion that some things would be unacceptable in a $14,990 Korean special. What the hell am I talking about, I hear you ask? Ok - here are the main issues:

 

. The carpet quality is absolute shite. I very much doubt it could be any crappier. And, from the driver's seat, if you hit the passenger side floor, it rattles! Yes, the f^&*ing carpet rattles! I have not felt such crap carpet since the early Hyundai Excel hit our shores.

 

. Almost no opening doors on the dashboard or centre console are soft-opening. In fact, when opening the dash-top cubby, it hits the stops with such force it makes a "CRACK" sound that is painful to the ears! And when you flick open the ashtray cubby, it hits the stops so hard it closes again! The dashboard end air vents creak when you close them. Yep - creeeaaak - are we in a haunted house or in a $50k car?

 

. More on the cubby-holes - the lining in them is crap felt, not soft-touch rubber. This really erks me - a felt square would have to be the cheapest solution - one that really marks out the economy car-makers from the rest.

 

. The gearshift boot material feels cheap. Really cheap. But strangely, it APPEARS no different to, say, the one on a Subaru. But it FEELS cheaper.

 

. The dashboard material plastics are horrid & cheap. And the dashboard doesn't seamlessly join the door trims. It tries to, but fails.

 

. The gauge font/layout is childish. It seems to be trying to look trendy or something, but ends up looking lame. The temp/fuel graduations are inconsistent & hardly symmetrical. A gauge should, above all, be functional. These gauges look designed for the sake of it.

 

. The door jambs are covered in orange-peel paint finish. I reckon they were only persuaded to gloss it after someone back in Japan saw some sense. But it's still a crap finish. This sort of things marks out a manufacturer who gives a crap & one that doesn't.

 

. The door frames around the windows look & feel like under-designed girders. There's no grace to them at all. They are not flush. They have sharp edges. They are cheap.

 

. Moving to the boot, again, the carpet there is rubbish. On this particular car, there were several broken fitting plugs & when you lift the boot floor...yep, space-saver. Another example of lazy engineering & bean-counter influence. I hate space-savers with a passion.

 

. Moving under the bonnet, the first thing that take you by surprise is the massive weight of the steel bonnet. FFS - the bonnet is 10 feet off the ground & weighs 20kg! Why the hell is it not aluminium? Once I've erected the monstrosity, I'm greeted with the mattahorn of engine design. I don't remember ever seeing an engine totally designed in the vertical plane, but here it is! Finish under the hood is not bad, but the way the turbo & intercooler is shoe-horned in there is not cool. Just as I end up thinking things aren't finished too bad, I spy the grill/front crossmember area. Again, crap finish & poor design. Not sure how to describe what I didn't like about it, but it sucked.

 

. Closing the iron girder structure with a THWACK! (enough noise to disturb the sales people) I moved on the exterior. Poking about under the wheel arches & what do I find? Pressed steel wishbones. Pressed steel suspension arms. Pressed steel everything - why hasn't Mazda moved onto forged steel or aluminium components? It looks cheap. Oozes cost-cutting. And then I spy something...a strange rubberised weight-thingo bolted to the upper wishbone. Oh, I thought...it's just the bumpstop. But it wasn't! What it was is an NVH dampener. Somewhere along the line, Mazda discovered their pressed steel wishbones were generating vibrations so they bolted a weight to them. Increasing unsprung weight. Brilliant!

 

. Moving around to the rear, I thought I'd check out the fake rear exhausts. OMG - I didn't realise they were THAT fake. I actually tried to snap one out of the rear valence so I could wave it about the showroom asking WTF this is all about, but Mazda seems to have done a good job securing their little crap POS surround.

 

What everyone else here failed to realise when they spied the exhaust surround is that the rest of the car is designed in the same fashion...it's a $50k impression of a well-built & designed car.

 

I would not own one - ever - 'cause I'd resent feeling like Mazda had bent me over at delivery & I'd have to live with my decision for years to come. I don't give a sh*t how well it drives, it's engineered to a price...a price far less than what it sells for.

[ninjanick]

Did anyone mention the "gas" issue people are complaining about with the MS6? Something about the ECU opening the wastegate at 4200RPM if it "senses" poor octane.

[mrjoshuanyc]

Road and track had a great comparison issue, it compared 7 cars including our beloved LGT spec b. It comes in second to Audi's a4 and kills the ms6, volvo,bmw! , infinity , and lexus is 250. I personally think the Ms6 looks outdated and over done. Compare a MS6 to a regular LGT and I think for the money, the choice is clear! Lgt for $25,000 or $32,000 for ms6.

[gfxdave99]

Hey guys i just got my tarrot reading and it said

 

http://www.svtarot.com/net/flamewar.gif

[psucaptainkickass]

^ :lol: