New '05 LGT 5MT Wagon Owner With a Plan

[rhino6303]

1 hour ago, Infosecdad said:

Sound-wise it's nothing like the 5MT, I was really surprised when I first drove it. So much noise that I was used to was apparently tranny noise, and the vast majority was gone.  I can't promise that'll be the same for everyone, but that's what I'm experiencing. I have Group N bushings all over and the beatrush solid bushings on the driveshaft and drivetrain noises are still notably quieter than with the stock 5MT. 

I can attest to this as well. Much quieter than the 5MT. I think the direct linkage is the buggest culprit. I actually like the cable linkage more. With a short shifter kit it is a much more solid feel than my 5MT ever was (5MT had upgraded shifter everything too). 

Darnit. This makes me want to pull my engine for the quick rebuild and get it back on the road!

[Pleides]

1 hour ago, rhino6303 said:

I can attest to this as well. Much quieter than the 5MT. I think the direct linkage is the buggest culprit. I actually like the cable linkage more. With a short shifter kit it is a much more solid feel than my 5MT ever was (5MT had upgraded shifter everything too). 

Darnit. This makes me want to pull my engine for the quick rebuild and get it back on the road!

 

2 hours ago, Infosecdad said:

Sound-wise it's nothing like the 5MT, I was really surprised when I first drove it. So much noise that I was used to was apparently tranny noise, and the vast majority was gone.  I can't promise that'll be the same for everyone, but that's what I'm experiencing. I have Group N bushings all over and the beatrush solid bushings on the driveshaft and drivetrain noises are still notably quieter than with the stock 5MT. 

Is takeoff from a stop and the drivetrain jerk in stop-and-go traffic still an issue with the split case? I recall it happening a smidge less in STIs I've driven, but never totally gone. I believe the two-piece driveshaft is the culprit but I'm uncertain.

[Infosecdad]

1 minute ago, Pleides said:

 

Is takeoff from a stop and the drivetrain jerk in stop-and-go traffic still an issue with the split case? I recall it happening a smidge less in STIs I've driven, but never totally gone. I believe the two-piece driveshaft is the culprit but I'm uncertain.

I have almost no drivetrain jerk/shudder/slop.

But I also have GroupN/STi engine, transmission, and pitch stop mounts, tranny cradle bushings, solid bushings for the driveshaft carrier, rear diff inserts, and WRX/STi diff mount.

If I encounter it, it's my fault as I've mistimed my heavy clutch.

[TMBLKDG]

On 5/15/2023 at 2:41 PM, Infosecdad said:

I was probably one of the threads you found for the cable-shifted split-case 6mt that the 2010-2012 LGT and 2015+ WRX use now. ...snip...

I had my 5mt with all the bushings to make it tight and smooth and the cable shifter isn't quite there; but it's close enough that the reduced cabin noise and 6th gear/lower RPMs are 100% worth it and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

I love that I can take a 2023 6mt transmission and install it in my '05 wagon as a direct swap if I needed to.

Yes, your thread and Scottydunno's are the ones I referenced and the lower freeway RPMs and reduced NVH are the reasons I'm going this route. Also, much less cost overall and hopefully they can get it done faster but this shop never does anything quickly.

The shop is skeptical of information gathered from the internet and supplied by customers so they had me approve a $1000 parts buffer in case they needed to order parts that aren't part of a normal 5MT swap (The new shifter and cables were accounted for separately). Of course, I know they won't so I'm not worried about it.

What is it about your shifter that isn't right?

Edited May 21, 2023 by TMBLKDG

[Infosecdad]

1 hour ago, TMBLKDG said:

Yes, your thread and Scottydunno's are the ones I referenced and the lower freeway RPMs and reduced NVH are the reasons I'm going this route. Also, much less cost overall and hopefully they can get it done faster but this shop never does anything quickly.

The shop is skeptical of information gathered from the internet and supplied by customers so they had me approve a $1000 parts buffer in case they needed to order parts that aren't part of a normal 5MT swap (The new shifter and cables were accounted for separately). Of course, I know they won't so I'm not worried about it.

What is it about your shifter that isn't right?

It can be a little notchy on occasion before it's warmed up.  Not sure if that is normal for a cable-shifted tranny or if it's because I have a 180k tranny that I picked up for $400 and swapped in.  I'm gonna go with a lower mileage WRX tranny at some point.

[TMBLKDG]

Well, I guess if it wasn't for bad luck... and you know the rest.

I picked up my car from the shop last week after they finished the 6MT swap.  Man it drives nice with this new trans, and I can actually shift it fast at high RPMS!  It's quieter in the cabin and that lower 6th gear is so nice on the freeway at 70 MPH.

But, in testing how it shifts at redline under full throttle I quickly discovered a scary loud noise - nothing to do with the trans at least...

There was a loud sort of whistling or shrieking noise coming from the engine compartment.  I played around with it and determined the noise was only occurring under boost when boost got to 10+ psi.  I checked all the clamps on the intake hoses and nothing was loose and there was nothing obviously out of place. I called the shop and they asked me to bring it back the next day so I did and took one of their techs for a ride.  With the windows down (and even with them up) the noise is impossible to miss.  You hear it best in 3rd gear as the engine is building full boost for several seconds before you have to shift (or let off because you're going way too fast in a crowded urban area).

Thinking there might be a leak, the tech took it for about an hour and pressure tested the intake and exhaust systems with the BOV functional and locked out and could not replicate the noise or find any leaks.  At this point it was closing time so I elected to take the car back home and drive it a little more. Over the next couple of days the noise went from being a sort of high pitched whistle to more of a raspy high pitched scream.  Also, boost pressure at WOT is fluctuating and not holding at peak boost any longer (19 psi target but it only gets to 17-18 after rapidly fluctuating between 15-19 at this point.)

I dunno but I'm sure thinking this sounds like the turbo bearings are on the way out.  Only about 10K miles on this turbo...

The shop is busy and didn't have any openings for dyno diagnostic time 'til next monday (6/19) but they said if I dropped it off before hand they'd try to get it on the dyno in between appointments or if they had any cancellations.  Since I'm fearing the turbo is giving up I figure I better not drive it any more so I dropped it off with them yesterday.  It's back to driving my old beater truck with it's nasty exhaust leak, loosy-goosy steering, and no A/C for now...  At least the weather is supposed to be cool for the rest of the week.

Stay tuned - I should have a firm diagnosis by early next week.

[Febreze Mee]

Man, I'm sorry to hear this.

I just went through the exercise of having a fresh running and driving car after lots of time and money was spent, to having it out of commission again. I'm on the other side of the second storm now, but I can empathize with you. Hopefully, all is found soon, and that it is minor. 

[xt2005bonbon]

15 hours ago, TMBLKDG said:

Well, I guess if it wasn't for bad luck... and you know the rest.

I picked up my car from the shop last week after they finished the 6MT swap.  Man it drives nice with this new trans, and I can actually shift it fast at high RPMS!  It's quieter in the cabin and that lower 6th gear is so nice on the freeway at 70 MPH.

But, in testing how it shifts at redline under full throttle I quickly discovered a scary loud noise - nothing to do with the trans at least...

There was a loud sort of whistling or shrieking noise coming from the engine compartment.  I played around with it and determined the noise was only occurring under boost when boost got to 10+ psi.  I checked all the clamps on the intake hoses and nothing was loose and there was nothing obviously out of place. I called the shop and they asked me to bring it back the next day so I did and took one of their techs for a ride.  With the windows down (and even with them up) the noise is impossible to miss.  You hear it best in 3rd gear as the engine is building full boost for several seconds before you have to shift (or let off because you're going way too fast in a crowded urban area).

Thinking there might be a leak, the tech took it for about an hour and pressure tested the intake and exhaust systems with the BOV functional and locked out and could not replicate the noise or find any leaks.  At this point it was closing time so I elected to take the car back home and drive it a little more. Over the next couple of days the noise went from being a sort of high pitched whistle to more of a raspy high pitched scream.  Also, boost pressure at WOT is fluctuating and not holding at peak boost any longer (19 psi target but it only gets to 17-18 after rapidly fluctuating between 15-19 at this point.)

I dunno but I'm sure thinking this sounds like the turbo bearings are on the way out.  Only about 10K miles on this turbo...

The shop is busy and didn't have any openings for dyno diagnostic time 'til next monday (6/19) but they said if I dropped it off before hand they'd try to get it on the dyno in between appointments or if they had any cancellations.  Since I'm fearing the turbo is giving up I figure I better not drive it any more so I dropped it off with them yesterday.  It's back to driving my old beater truck with it's nasty exhaust leak, loosy-goosy steering, and no A/C for now...  At least the weather is supposed to be cool for the rest of the week.

Stay tuned - I should have a firm diagnosis by early next week.

Time to remove the downpipe and check for turbo shaft play. I did this a couple of days ago as I also had some weird noise going on under boost. Turned out to be a loose uppipe bolt and no shaft play. Maybe yours is the other way around, hopefully not.

Edited June 14, 2023 by xt2005bonbon

[TMBLKDG]

Well, good news, for the most part.  The shop found the problem - a cracked weld on my Grimmspeed TMIC.

I bought this TMIC probably three or four years ago but it never got installed until about 8 or 10 months ago.  I'm hoping Grimmspeed will stand behind their product,  but we'll see. Anyone have experience with this sort of situation with Grimmspeed?

[xt2005bonbon]

Picture please? First time I hear of a cracked GS TMIC. I have one of these TMIC as well. They should back their product especially if you are the first owner.

[KZJonny]

Agreed. I would be extremely surprised if they did not make it right.

Their reputation for excellence in fabrication and also customer service is parts of why I bought a bunch of stuff from them.

 

Hopefully that solves your problems!

[TMBLKDG]

The service manager said they have video. They put soapy water on it so you can see where the leak is.  When I get the video, I'll share it. 

[TMBLKDG]

Here's the video.
 

 

[KZJonny]

Wow. That’s a leak…

[xt2005bonbon]

First time I see this. Huh.

[Febreze Mee]

Glad to see it was easily found. Hopefully it's just as easily resolvable with GS. 

[TMBLKDG]

Talked to a rep at Grimmspeed and he pointed out they have a lifetime warranty.  I sent them an email with a link to that video and a copy of the invoice so hopefully this process won't be too painful. Unfortunately their website says they're out of stock on this model currently...

[xt2005bonbon]

It should be a painless process. Mine was with the splitter.

[TMBLKDG]

Got the replacement intercooler from Grimmspeed and installed it over the last weekend. Everything's back to normal.

I wouldn't call my interaction with  Grimmspeed painless, but in the end they stood behind their work and replaced the intercooler which is all I could've asked for.  Their communication left a little to be desired and I had to call them to get things rolling when an email didn't get any action but the rep I spoke to said they're moving locations and things are pretty chaotic there right now so I'll chalk it up to that.

Overall I'm thoroughly enjoying the car right now.  My morning commute can be quite entertaining as there's very little traffic and it's freeway most of the way.  The 6th gear in the new transmission is wonderful for making high speed cruising much more comfortable.

The only thing I'm not super happy about is the turbo is a bit laggy.  It's just not as snappy as it was with the VF52 though it certainly pulls hard once it's spooled up.  It looks like the last bolt-on parts I could put on the car could help with that though so am looking at installing a Cobb SF intake and a Tomei UEL header.  I know, I know, a UEL header isn't optimum, but I love that Subi rumble too much and I'm not concerned with squeezing every last pony out of this engine.  By all accounts these mods should help the turbo spool up noticeably faster and preserve that great exhaust sound.  of course, if you can present a good argument against this stuff, please chime in!  I'll be very curious to see what the final AWHP numbers come out to after this work.

I'm also going to have an IAG oil pan/pickup/baffle installed at the same time.  I figure with the improved handling and my love of pushing it on the big sweeping cloverleafs I should do something to help ensure more consistent oiling.

Stay tuned. It's going to be a couple of weeks before I get this done as my truck is in the shop and I need to wait for that to be finished first.

[TMBLKDG]

Well, so much for what you read on the internet...

As mentioned in my previous post - info I found about headers and intakes indicated they would improve airflow through the engine below the peaks and help the turbo spool up faster.  This has turned out to be exactly the opposite of what happened.

To sum up:  I had a Cobb SF intake, Tomei UEL header, and IAG oil pan installed.  I was really hoping the intake and header would help the turbo spool up faster as I've been missing the "snappy" feeling of the VF52.  Well, they didn't do that at all and in fact I lost a significant amount of low end torque.  I've attached a graph that shows the changes between the original engine with the VF52 and the new engine with the 380XT. The lowest, kind of fuzzy line was the original engine with the VF52.  The middle red line was the new engine with the 380xt.  There weren't any changes in supporting parts between these two engines, just the change to the turbo.   The line showing the highest peak is the current configuration after the headers and intake were installed.   Ugh, not entirely what I wanted.  I will say that above 3500 RPM this thing hauls ass now, but just cruising at lower RPMs it's sluggish.

I'm a turbo noob but in the NA world of old V8 engines I'm used to playing in, these results would indicate that the header and possibly the intake also are too big for this combination.  Smaller diameter header pipes would increase velocity at lower RPMs and enhance lower RPM torque while still helping top end power by providing a more efficient flow path than factory manifolds (assuming the factory manifolds are an inefficient design).  It looks to me like the Tomei pipes are intended mainly to increase top end power and are probably a larger diameter than they need to be for my relatively small turbo.  The intake could also be contributing to the problem in the same way.

The exhaust note also changed significantly. Even though they're UELs, the exhaust note has lost some of that burble/growl of the stock configuration and has a much "smoother" sound to it and sounds kind of like a very deep-toned typical inline 4 now.  It's still recognizable as a Subaru, especially at idle and low speeds but it's not as "growly" any more.

I'm not going to make any more changes in the foreseeable future, I have other things to spend my money on currently and the car is running fine but I definitely want to look into what I can do to bring back some of the low end torque which is more important to my daily driving enjoyment than a boatload of top end power.  Would a different turbo work better?  Anyone make headers with smaller primary and up-pipes (the Tomei has it's own proprietary up-pipe that replaced the Invidia that was on there)? Is the intake hurting or helping my cause?  (It certainly is louder, I can hear a loud "whooshing" sound on acceleration all the time now which honestly I could live without).  I wonder how all these parts would work with a modified VF52?  I would gladly trade 20-30 HP above 4000 RPM to get back the  50-80 ft-lbs I lost between 3000-3700.

Edited August 11, 2023 by TMBLKDG

[KZJonny]

I’ll assume you got the ‘small pipe’ Tomei header? Still bigger than OE, so exactly what you were saying about flow characteristics. I remember you wanting to retain the ‘rumble’, so UEL was the only option. You’d see a little more low end response with EL b/c of better exhaust pulse synchronization and less reversion, but that’s academic at this point.

OE headers heat up and retain more heat because they are thick cast steel. Better low end response after a period of not being on the throttle since the latent heat (energy) improves spool, rather than having to heat up the header to exhaust temp again. Wrapping or ceramic coating what you’ve got will help get some of that back.

380XT is pretty big for a ‘response’ car, from my research when I was in about the same place you are. I was also unwilling, at the time, to do a fuel system conversion to top feeds to be able to take advantage of it. A JMP Custom (lightened/improved) VF52 might be just the ticket….  But that is getting back into spending a bunch more money again.

Probably the cheapest thing to gain back a little under the curve would be wrapping the headers and UP in something like DEI heat wrap.

Edit: re-read most of this and saw you had the Custom VF52. (Jealousy) did you sell it on yet? I really do love my JMP Custom VF40, but….. what good is a money pit if you don’t use it to throw money into?

Edited August 11, 2023 by KZJonny

[xt2005bonbon]

I have a vf52 jmp on the 05 and a stock vf40 on the 06. The 06 is more fun to drive around in my opinion. It's just more responsive. The VF52 is definitely a little laggier but then when it kicks in, it does pull stronger for longer. But I admit I have more fun with the vf40 around town.

Both cars have stock headers, catless uppipes, same invidia hiflow catted downpipe. 06 does have stromung 3inch catback (no resonator). 05 has stock midpipe and avo cans. Other diff are 05 has GS intercooler, K&N panel filter, while 06 has AVO top mount and Cobb CAI.

[KZJonny]

8 hours ago, xt2005bonbon said:

I have a vf52 jmp on the 05 and a stock vf40 on the 06. The 06 is more fun to drive around in my opinion. It's just more responsive. The VF52 is definitely a little laggier but then when it kicks in, it does pull stronger for longer. But I admit I have more fun with the vf40 around town.

Both cars have stock headers, catless uppipes, same invidia hiflow catted downpipe. 06 does have stromung 3inch catback (no resonator). 05 has stock midpipe and avo cans. Other diff are 05 has GS intercooler, K&N panel filter, while 06 has AVO top mount and Cobb CAI.

To be entirely fair, I should probably reserve judgement until I get the thing properly done by Cryotune. I am pretty sure the OTS Stage 2 map, while safe for the car, is holding the turbo back in particular. I *really* do like the JMP CVF40..... It is just so tempting to find out what the CVF 52 would be like. I just wonder if I would like it less, and it is a lot of money to find that out.

[TMBLKDG]

20 hours ago, KZJonny said:

I’ll assume you got the ‘small pipe’ Tomei header? ...snip...

Edit: re-read most of this and saw you had the Custom VF52. (Jealousy) did you sell it on yet? I really do love my JMP Custom VF40, but….. what good is a money pit if you don’t use it to throw money into?

I didn't know there was any options for the Tomei beyond EL and UEL.  I can't find any reference to headers with different size pipes from Tomei for our cars?

The VF52 was just as trashed by metal debris as everything else in that engine.  In hindsight I should've kept it and sent it back to JMP to see if it could be repaired but my mindset was "flush it all and start over" at the time.

This car has been a money pit for sure, but at this point I'm ready to start throwing money in a different pit so I'm going to take a break, other than buying amplifiers and a subwoofer for the stereo and dealing with cosmetic issues.  I'm also setting a little aside for the eventual replacement of this engine as 350 whp forged piston engines aren't known for their longevity.  When that happens I'm thinking type RA shortblock and going back to the VF52 or some other similar turbo, and maybe a set of custom headers... LOL.  I've also read about ported stock manifolds. Don't know if anyone's doing that any more but it's an intriguing idea.  There are also several other manufacturers making UELs for our cars, I'll look into the specs on them and see if any are different head pipe diameters.

i just received a forged and nitrided, 4" stroke crankshaft from Molnar Technologies for a Pontiac V8 that I've been waiting on for about a year, so my focus is going to pivot for awhile and I'm going to try just enjoying driving this beast.  I will say that if I drive it like I stole it, it's pretty thrilling.

[TMBLKDG]

13 hours ago, xt2005bonbon said:

I have a vf52 jmp on the 05 and a stock vf40 on the 06. The 06 is more fun to drive around in my opinion. It's just more responsive. The VF52 is definitely a little laggier but then when it kicks in, it does pull stronger for longer. But I admit I have more fun with the vf40 around town.

Both cars have stock headers, catless uppipes, same invidia hiflow catted downpipe. 06 does have stromung 3inch catback (no resonator). 05 has stock midpipe and avo cans. Other diff are 05 has GS intercooler, K&N panel filter, while 06 has AVO top mount and Cobb CAI.

No doubt a smaller turbo like the VF40 would be even more responsive at lower RPMs, but check the dyno graph I posted. I was pretty happy with the VF52 and it was making 75-80 ft-lbs *more* torque from 3000-3500 RPM which is a big difference.  Of course the headers and intake may very well have killed off some of that lower end with that turbo too.  I don't know how the intake really affects things on these cars as far as midrange goes - I don't think intake pulse tuning is really a thing with a turbo and intercooler in the path, but I'm pretty confident that the headers have pipes that are too big for my particular application/desires.