New '05 LGT 5MT Wagon Owner With a Plan

[TMBLKDG]

Well, the new engine is in and I've put a little over 200 miles on the car since getting it back from the shop.  Doing my best to follow their break-in protocol which seems awfully lengthy to me.  I've never built a turbo motor, but the NA V8s I've built in the past I would run them for about 20 minutes on the first startup then change the oil and cut open the filter, then I'd drive them around normally for about 50 miles and change the oil and check the filter again and as long as I wasn't finding any metallic debris in the filter, it was on.  Honestly, if the hone job is done properly the rings should seal up immediately and there really isn't anything else to "break in" inside an engine. The bearings should never, ever have metal-metal contact and even valvetrain parts (depending on the design) and other miscellaneous items such as oil pump gears, timing chains (if equipped), distributor gears (again, old V8s), etc. shouldn't need to wear together for prolonged periods before pushing the engine.

Ah well, I'm just venting.  They want me to bring it back at 500 miles for the first oil change, then again at 1000 miles, then again at 1500 miles and at that point they'll put it on the dyno and retune for the new turbo.  That whole time I have to try to keep it out of boost... LOL.  I think I can do it, I think I can, I think I can....

In the meantime, it's time to start addressing some of the general wear & tear in the interior.  I want to install a short-throw shifter and I'll put a new shift boot and the Latheworks shift ball on at that time.  Also researching what it would take to repaint the console.

[Enlight]

1 hour ago, TMBLKDG said:

In the meantime, it's time to start addressing some of the general wear & tear in the interior.  I want to install a short-throw shifter and I'll put a new shift boot and the Latheworks shift ball on at that time.  Also researching what it would take to repaint the console.

Ages ago there was a company that made a double din for our cars, the paint they recommended to match the grey console was Duplicolor EBFM02257. I've used this to paint the my double din and confirm it's a good match. It looks like the rest of the console without 15 years of age.

[TMBLKDG]

17 minutes ago, Enlight said:

Ages ago there was a company that made a double din for our cars, the paint they recommended to match the grey console was Duplicolor EBFM02257. I've used this to paint the my double din and confirm it's a good match. It looks like the rest of the console without 15 years of age.

Fantastic, thanks for that info!

I have a double-DIN kit that I'll be installing, hopefully sooner than later and painting that to match will be essential.  The most beat up part of the console though is the area around the cupholder/e-brake which has a sort of matte black finish on it.  Looks like it was coated with something from the factory that has an almost rubbery (but not quite) feel to it and it's scratched off and generally beat up. The cupholder slide cover is in great shape and the seat heater switch assembly looks good, just needs to be cleaned, so I'd like to disassemble this part of the console, remove the original factory coating and repaint with something that at least looks close.

[Pleides]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:29 PM, TMBLKDG said:

Well, the new engine is in and I've put a little over 200 miles on the car since getting it back from the shop.  Doing my best to follow their break-in protocol which seems awfully lengthy to me.  I've never built a turbo motor, but the NA V8s I've built in the past I would run them for about 20 minutes on the first startup then change the oil and cut open the filter, then I'd drive them around normally for about 50 miles and change the oil and check the filter again and as long as I wasn't finding any metallic debris in the filter, it was on.  Honestly, if the hone job is done properly the rings should seal up immediately and there really isn't anything else to "break in" inside an engine. The bearings should never, ever have metal-metal contact and even valvetrain parts (depending on the design) and other miscellaneous items such as oil pump gears, timing chains (if equipped), distributor gears (again, old V8s), etc. shouldn't need to wear together for prolonged periods before pushing the engine.

Ah well, I'm just venting.  They want me to bring it back at 500 miles for the first oil change, then again at 1000 miles, then again at 1500 miles and at that point they'll put it on the dyno and retune for the new turbo.  That whole time I have to try to keep it out of boost... LOL.  I think I can do it, I think I can, I think I can....

In the meantime, it's time to start addressing some of the general wear & tear in the interior.  I want to install a short-throw shifter and I'll put a new shift boot and the Latheworks shift ball on at that time.  Also researching what it would take to repaint the console.

Definitely a funky break-in procedure. Surgeline wanted me to run conventional oil for 1000 miles then switch to synthetic and call it good. FWIW, I used synthetic cuz it was what I had lying around and my engine did take substantially longer to break in. It burned oil until I ran conventional for an oil change. I can't remember how many miles it had but it was somewhere between 3000 and 10,000 miles when I just figured I'd try conventional once. Fixed my oil burn issues. Went from burning a quart every oil change to nothing. The more ya know. I'd think a forged part might require more finnicky break-in since they expand more with heat than cast pistons. I went with a stock shortblock and some mild valvetrain upgrades for my car.

I've heard from many shops that short-throw shifters aren't recommended for the 5-speed. I wanna say it isn't great for the synchros. The factory throw is fine for me so I haven't explored more.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Pleides

[Max Capacity]

I'll say I tend to agree with that thought about STS in a 5mt. I have been through a few sets of shift forks in the wagon.

[TMBLKDG]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:59 AM, Pleides said:

Definitely a funky break-in procedure. Surgeline wanted me to run conventional oil for 1000 miles then switch to synthetic and call it good. FWIW, I used synthetic cuz it was what I had lying around and my engine did take substantially longer to break in. It burned oil until I ran conventional for an oil change. I can't remember how many miles it had but it was somewhere between 3000 and 10,000 miles when I just figured I'd try conventional once. Fixed my oil burn issues. Went from burning a quart every oil change to nothing. The more ya know. I'd think a forged part might require more finnicky break-in since they expand more with heat than cast pistons. I went with a stock shortblock and some mild valvetrain upgrades for my car.

I've heard from many shops that short-throw shifters aren't recommended for the 5-speed. I wanna say it isn't great for the synchros. The factory throw is fine for me so I haven't explored more.

 

On 10/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, Max Capacity said:

I'll say I tend to agree with that thought about STS in a 5mt. I have been through a few sets of shift forks in the wagon.

Interesting.... I can't imagine why changing the shifter geometry would hurt the transmission.   I don't find the throws objectionably long but wouldn't mind tightening them up a bit and imagine the stock STS is probably less aggressive in that regard than the Cobb or Kartboy shifters that claim to shorten throws 40%.  Hmmm... Maybe I'll wait on that.

Max - what symptoms were you experiencing when your shift forks went bad?

Car is going for its first oil change on Wednesday.  At 76 mi/day on my commute this isn't taking long... LOL.

[Max Capacity]

In July 2020, the tranny got stuck between gears on a shift. It did that once before, back about 2010. 

 

[TMBLKDG]

The second oil change is done and I'm scheduled for the third and final oil change and dyno tune next Wednesday.

So far everything seems great except for a pervasive and strong burning oil smell, especially after driving on the freeway.  The shop keeps saying it's just oil burning off the exterior of the turbo (they said it ships coated in oil/cosmoline in a plastic bag).  I'm thinking any oil residue on the turbo or other exhaust parts ought to have burned off by now (about 1250 miles on engine now).

Can't find any external leaks, so what the heck is causing this smell? I suggested maybe it's turbo shaft seals but they discounted that idea because I know they don't want to take the turbo back out for an inspection or deal with replacing it if it is defective.  They said they took it out for a drive with someone following it and saw no smoke from the exhaust and I believe them. The exhaust tips aren't sooty/oily at all and whatever oil is causing that smell isn't leaking fast enough to register as a difference in fill level on the dipstick between fuel fillups.  I know from experience it doesn't take much oil leaking onto/into the exhaust to create a pretty strong smell.

I just read Boxkita's thread about his wagon and kinda wishing I'd read that before choosing this shop.  Oh well, that ship sailed so I guess I just gotta hope the basics were done right and once the break-in's done I'll have to assume responsibility for troubleshooting/repairs of miscellaneous crap.

I have a list of things to do to the car, hoping I can find time over the winter but there is so much to do around this house that I don't know how I'm going to fit it all in.

Interior:
* Recover front seats.  Possibly replace driver's seat as whatever the mechanism is that raises the left front corner doesn't work and also only the upper back portion of the seat heater works.
* Replace steering wheel airbag or airbag cover as this one is pretty ratty.
* Replace leather shifter and e-brake boots and install Latheworks shifter ball.
* Refinish/re-dye Momo steering wheel.  Leather has changed colors on part of the wheel - will document and discuss in another thread or maybe later in this one.
* Replace A-pillar trim.
* Install JDM stereo kit - have all the console parts to install a separate double-DIN head unit and new heater controls. Have a decent Kenwood head unit and Morell speakers, need to figure out (an) amplifier(s) and subwoofer to complete the system.
      -- Repaint/refinish console pieces at this time
* Replace worn/shabby/damaged miscellaneous small parts such as interior driver's door pull, dash cubby cover, console armrest, etc.
* Install additional sound deadening and tackle various annoying rattles in dash.

Exterior:
* Replace taillight assemblies with light smoked update versions.
* Replace headlights with JDM Xenon units.
* Replace grill with JDM grill.
* Replace miscellaneous worn/damaged trim parts.
* Replace dented driver's fender and badly door-dinged door.
* Eventual re-paint as paint is badly damaged by tree pollen/sap that sat on it long enough to etch into the paint.

Suspension:
* Install Whiteline swaybars and Kartboy endlinks.

Well, that's the new plan for now, subject to change as always, of course.  For the very near term I just can't wait to get this engine break-in done and see what kind of power this engine can put down and be able to finally really drive it without worrying about keeping it out of boost constantly.

[TMBLKDG]

The final break-in oil change and dyno tuning session is done and I picked the car up last night and drove it to work today.

The dyno sheet doesn't show huge gains but I gotta say it feels a heckuva lot faster.  I actually scared myself going full throttle from about 35 MPH in 3rd gear on a wet freeway onramp this morning, felt like I was going to breaking traction.  The car scoots now and I'm quite pleased with the power it's making.

The dyno chart shows the VF52 had the advantage from 2700-3700 RPM but above that point this new combo wins.  It's kinda weird, I never felt like the old combo was all that impressive but this new engine is definitely doing what I had hoped for all along yet the differences aren't really huge on paper.  Let's cross fingers and hope it holds together for a good while.

I have a good friend with one of the 400 HP Infiniti Q60s with the twin-turbo V6.  He'll probably kill me with it being an automatic and me having to launch soft to save the trans and being paranoid about shifting into the right gear now, but I'm itching to line up against him and see what happens.  We have a 4 lane freeway that starts at a stoplight and is straight for about 2 miles, so is the perfect place to line up late at night when no one's around.

[Pleides]

What's the "new combo?" Don't you have a JMP VF52? Are you comparing a stock one to his frankenmonster VF52?

[TMBLKDG]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:11 PM, Pleides said:

What's the "new combo?" Don't you have a JMP VF52? Are you comparing a stock one to his frankenmonster VF52?

I mentioned the new combo back in the post where I described the failure/ damage of the old engine but its kind of buried in that wall of text... lol.

 

Everything was a total loss due to all the metal in the oil.  I could've sent the VF52 back to JMP but the incremental cost to go with a new, more efficient turbo wasn't all that much given the total cost so I opted for a Blouch TD05H-380XT.

 

That dyno graph is the previous JMP VF52 compared to the 380XT.

 

The new engine is basically stock with Wiseco pistons and ARP head studs.  All the supporting parts (fueling,  tmic, etc) remain the same.

[NORULZleggy]

Just for Legacy GT sake, give it one good medium to hard take off against that TT infinity, you will get him. Have like a bit over a quarter tank of gas (Less weight lol), fast for a few days (Less weight haha), and you should be able to do this with out tire spin and your golden. Now this might be your only chance lol. You will be surprised what cars you can take out and how many hearts you will break. If you can jump him a few cars, and get into 3rd, I think you will get him. Nice build!!

[JoeInOregon]

Need corn juice 

[TMBLKDG]

Well, it was probably inevitable but I broke the transmission yesterday.  Wasn't even getting on it when it let go, just cruising along with traffic on the freeway and right at the exit ramp I take to my job site is where it started making bad noises.  I was actually able to drive it into my parking spot where it seized up as I backed in. So other than it letting go at the end of my driveway it couldn't have happened at a better place.

Not terribly surprising. That trans had 192K on it and I've been enjoying the power of the new engine if you know what I mean.

15+ WRX 6MT swap on deck now.  Having the same shop do the trans that built the engine but they've never done one of these swaps before so it'll be a learning process for them... lol.

Edited May 13, 2023 by TMBLKDG

[subisubisu]

Sorry to hear of the breakdown, but I hope you'll enjoy the 6MT upgrade.  My 6MT swap isn't quite back on the road yet so I can't speak authoritatively about the whole process, but I did find that the shapes of the original 5MT that came out of my '05 OBXT and the JDM Spec B 6MT that went in are different, and that the stock downpipe didn't match up with the 6MT shape.  You mentioned learning process, and that was part of mine.

[TMBLKDG]

1 hour ago, subisubisu said:

Sorry to hear of the breakdown, but I hope you'll enjoy the 6MT upgrade.  My 6MT swap isn't quite back on the road yet so I can't speak authoritatively about the whole process, but I did find that the shapes of the original 5MT that came out of my '05 OBXT and the JDM Spec B 6MT that went in are different, and that the stock downpipe didn't match up with the 6MT shape.  You mentioned learning process, and that was part of mine.

Isn't the spec B trans basically an Sti trans without DCCD?  If so, it will be significantly different, and stronger. 

According to Scottydunno's thread, the WRX trans is much closer to the 5spd with the only external differences being at the rear of the case where they don't affect anything.  If you haven't seen his thread about his swap,  I'd recommend taking a look at it just for kicks.  It sure seems like it couldn't get more straightforward...

[boxkita]

different gears too. sti more rally. specb more touring

we had a 2018 wrx 6mt. seemed pretty good transmission to me. maybe earlier ones were less robust?

idk if you are local to Seattle. i have an 08 specb 6mt that needs looking at first. and a 08 sti 6mt that was pulled from a working car

[TMBLKDG]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:58 AM, boxkita said:

different gears too. sti more rally. specb more touring

we had a 2018 wrx 6mt. seemed pretty good transmission to me. maybe earlier ones were less robust?

idk if you are local to Seattle. i have an 08 specb 6mt that needs looking at first. and a 08 sti 6mt that was pulled from a working car

I'm out near Woodinville.  The Spec b trans interests me as it's my understanding I don't need to change anything else (axles, hubs, etc.) to install it.  Is that correct? What about the clutch?

only thing is, if it needs a rebuild it could end up being more expensive than the WRX trans.  But, it is stronger.... Hmmm...

[boxkita]

zf transmission. based in colorado. afaik, they only list on fb. 

the 6mt swap thread has all the recipes. 

i'm by the airport.

[Pleides]

Ah shucks, it's May already huh? I was supposed to message ya about the Spec B trans.

If someone else gets to it first then fair game. What do you want for it?

10 hours ago, TMBLKDG said:

I'm out near Woodinville.  The Spec b trans interests me as it's my understanding I don't need to change anything else (axles, hubs, etc.) to install it.  Is that correct? What about the clutch?

only thing is, if it needs a rebuild it could end up being more expensive than the WRX trans.  But, it is stronger.... Hmmm...

You use the clutch for a Spec B/STi 6-speed. Pretty straightforward swap but you don't get the DCCD and the front diff is open rather than limited slip. You also have much taller freeway gearing for both 5th and 6th gear than an STi trans.

[TMBLKDG]

2 hours ago, Pleides said:

Ah shucks, it's May already huh? I was supposed to message ya about the Spec B trans.

If someone else gets to it first then fair game. What do you want for it?

You use the clutch for a Spec B/STi 6-speed. Pretty straightforward swap but you don't get the DCCD and the front diff is open rather than limited slip. You also have much taller freeway gearing for both 5th and 6th gear than an STi trans.

Thanks for the info!

 

If you're interested in boxkita's spec B trans,  go for it.   I need to get my car back on the road asap for the least amount of money.  I really don't have any time to be running around gathering parts, etc. Plus,  I have an Exedy stage 1 clutch in the car that only has 15k on it. I'd hate to have to replace that too. 

 

I'm just going to proceed with the WRX swap as that will get me back on the road the soonest without me having to do anything but wave my credit card at the shop. I'd rather do it myself but I just don't have the time or a good place to work on it right now. 

[Pleides]

1 hour ago, TMBLKDG said:

Thanks for the info!

 

If you're interested in boxkita's spec B trans,  go for it.   I need to get my car back on the road asap for the least amount of money.  I really don't have any time to be running around gathering parts, etc. Plus,  I have an Exedy stage 1 clutch in the car that only has 15k on it. I'd hate to have to replace that too. 

 

I'm just going to proceed with the WRX swap as that will get me back on the road the soonest without me having to do anything but wave my credit card at the shop. I'd rather do it myself but I just don't have the time or a good place to work on it right now. 

Your shop, unless they've done the VA chassis 6-speed swap before, may prefer the Spec B trans. It's totally fine if you buy it - it's a road trip for me to drive from Forest Grove to Seattle and you are much closer and if ya got the funds then you can have at it. If not, I'll see when Boxkita wants me to stop on by. 

I will say, the VA WRX 6-speed does have good gear spacing as well. When I drove a 2018 WRX awhile back I had to hit 80 MPH to get to 3K RPM on the freeway in 6th. I'm at that at 70 MPH on the 5-speed. If that is the avenue you go and you're not concerned about launching the car or making tons of power then it's absolutely fine.

[Infosecdad]

I was probably one of the threads you found for the cable-shifted split-case 6mt that the 2010-2012 LGT and 2015+ WRX use now. It was based on the 6mt Subaru built for the diesel in EU. Honestly, installation of the WRX version is simple as replacing a 5mt.  Almost everything is the same for the WRX variant (not the case for the LGT version, but that's a different story).  Mounts, clutch, plugs, driveshaft, etc.  The only modification you need is to slightly widen the opening for the cable shifter, and drill a couple of holes.  A shorter shift boot is nice, I modified my 5sp boot to fit. 

Two major benefits of the split-case 6mt.

1. Lower RPMs = better gas mileage and less noise

2. The cable shifter is much quieter than the direct linkage. 

I had my 5mt with all the bushings to make it tight and smooth and the cable shifter isn't quite there; but it's close enough that the reduced cabin noise and 6th gear/lower RPMs are 100% worth it and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

I love that I can take a 2023 6mt transmission and install it in my '05 wagon as a direct swap if I needed to.

[Pleides]

1 hour ago, Infosecdad said:

I was probably one of the threads you found for the cable-shifted split-case 6mt that the 2010-2012 LGT and 2015+ WRX use now. It was based on the 6mt Subaru built for the diesel in EU. Honestly, installation of the WRX version is simple as replacing a 5mt.  Almost everything is the same for the WRX variant (not the case for the LGT version, but that's a different story).  Mounts, clutch, plugs, driveshaft, etc.  The only modification you need is to slightly widen the opening for the cable shifter, and drill a couple of holes.  A shorter shift boot is nice, I modified my 5sp boot to fit. 

Two major benefits of the split-case 6mt.

1. Lower RPMs = better gas mileage and less noise

2. The cable shifter is much quieter than the direct linkage. 

I had my 5mt with all the bushings to make it tight and smooth and the cable shifter isn't quite there; but it's close enough that the reduced cabin noise and 6th gear/lower RPMs are 100% worth it and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

I love that I can take a 2023 6mt transmission and install it in my '05 wagon as a direct swap if I needed to.

Do you notice that the car makes all the same funky transmission noises that the 5MT does on decel and that sort of thing? It's the one thing that makes me apprehensive about the 6MT split case. 

[Infosecdad]

1 minute ago, Pleides said:

Do you notice that the car makes all the same funky transmission noises that the 5MT does on decel and that sort of thing? It's the one thing that makes me apprehensive about the 6MT split case. 

Sound-wise it's nothing like the 5MT, I was really surprised when I first drove it. So much noise that I was used to was apparently tranny noise, and the vast majority was gone.  I can't promise that'll be the same for everyone, but that's what I'm experiencing. I have Group N bushings all over and the beatrush solid bushings on the driveshaft and drivetrain noises are still notably quieter than with the stock 5MT.