Sell me on AWD

[db4570]

I know this seems like blasphemy here, but I'm a bit agnostic on AWD. But I might be considering joining the Subaru church. Help welcome me into the fold!

 

I have always believed that 4WD and AWD were great for forward traction and acceleration in snow, but did little to nothing to help with what I consider to be the most important characteristics for safety: cornering, stopping, and stability in the snow. 4WD and AWD folks brag about how they can "go anywhere" in their vehicles, but that is not my primary goal in bad conditions. I just want to stay on the road, and out of accidents.

 

Background: Lived most of my life here in northern NY, where the roads can be really bad for much of the winter. Grew up driving big, awful, 70's sedans with crummy, bald, mismatched tires, and learned how to drive in the worst conditions with them. So FWD and all-season radials were major developments in my driving life. But I also know how to drive in really bad road conditions.

 

Fast forward: We have a medium-size SUV with 4WD, and a regular FWD sedan, which we're looking to replace. We really like the Accord, but are now also considering the Legacy.

 

So can you folks give me some really concrete discussion on why AWD is a big improvement over FWD for cornering, braking, and stability? Something more in-depth than just "it feels much more stable".

 

Thanks in advance for any useful information.

 

David

[solidxsnake]

If you're just looking to stay on the road and out of accidents, I don't think AWD is really a necessity. I did just fine in some pretty rough NE snowstorms in my old Corolla with Altimax Arctics... FWD with a good set of snow tires is enough to deal with pretty much all you'll ever see IMO.

 

If you're hooning around, then the AWD might make a difference.

[skibump]

I'm an avid skier and if it snows I go. Drove FWD cars for decades in the snow and the vast majority of the time was fine. However, in big storms I did have lots of trouble getting out of the driveway where I stay (long uphill dirt driveway) and would occasionally have to do the old FWD windshield wiper move (the FWD pulls the car side to side) up mountain access roads when they were slick. Got my 1st Subaru and have never looked back, and as long as I continue going to VT every weekend in the winter, I won't even consider getting a FWD.

 

Forward progress from a stop and on uphill slick roads is night and day. The car also corners better on slippery surfaces. I also feel traction on downhill snowy roads is improved as all four wheels are being controlled from the engine braking.

[whitetiger]

talk is cheap. a ride in the snow with a suby on winter tires, and you never want anything else ever again.

[ahkenaden]

I'll be honest, AWD really isn't the end-all be-all. Tire selection for your driving conditions is more important. I've had every drivetrain configuration and drive like a madman in most weather. I only have my Legacy GT out of necessity of a back seat capable of fitting a rear-facing infant seat. I had a RWD Genesis Coupe prior and drove it year round in MI. Winter snow tires made it just as stable as my Legacy (and I could hoon more if I wanted LOL). Good all-seasons for the other 3 seasons provided the same.

 

However! AWD = great torque delivery in almost any condition. I have crappy all-weathers and while not as stable in the winter, I find it to be far better than FWD. If you live in a hilly/snowy terrain such as in the NE states, you will appreciate it a little more than I do in good old flat MI.

[Pilot1226]

Having done multiple 360’s on the highway in a Honda Civic and fish tailing out of control with a Nissan Sentra, it’s night and day difference. Hard to explain. The Subaru AWD system is legendary. My wife has an AWD Honda Pilot and it still doesn’t feel quite the same way the Subaru system does.

 

The background on the driving is that I was on a toll highway, snow had fallen the day before, but roads were treated nonetheless. Someone in front of me changed lanes and kicked up slush between the lanes that wasn’t plowed and the slush broke the traction of my front right tire, and I spun. The Nissan issue was similar but I had to do an evasive lane change to avoid hitting someone that decided their yield sign wasn’t important on the highway merge.

 

Ever since buying my first Subaru in 2008 and driving my 11 Outback today, I’ve never felt out of control with these cars. I’ve watched cars spin out and wreck next to me.

 

There’s more to AWD than just snow. Rain or sleet or anything in between (sand, dirt, rock) can put you in a control situation. Even dry pavement can have control issues if you take a corner too hard.

 

While I am extremely passionate about the Subaru brand, I can’t forecast the future. But I will say I will never drive anything other than an AWD vehicle regardless of brand whether it is a sedan or suv. If it keeps me out of a single accident it is worth it both physically and monetarily.

 

It’s kind of like the EyeSight system. It’s not really for me. It’s for you.

[MilesA]

Good tires are definitely the best to have, whether your car is FWD, RWD or AWD. A FWD car with appropriate tires will get you where you need to go almost always. So, do you need AWD? Probably not, but it is still great to have it if you have the choice.

 

Where AWD shines is putting power down in low traction situations. A tire can only apply so much frictional force before it breaks free. If you split the available power four ways instead of two ways, the car can put down more power without losing traction. If you drive on dirt or gravel roads, snowy or wet roads you will have an enhanced feeling of control. This applies to standing starts, acceleration, engine braking and putting down power coming out of a curve.

 

Something else that should be mentioned is the powertrain layout of Subaru cars really does give the car a lower center of gravity. It is noticeable every time you go around a turn, but this low center of gravity combined with the AWD gives a very secure planted feeling that you will appreciate every time you drive. With equal-length half-shafts to all four wheels, there is no such thing as "torque steer" like a lot of FWD cars have.

 

Subaru uses several different AWD configuations. I have a manual transmission wagon with 50/50 F/R torque split, plus limited slip rear diff. Subaru also has used systems with 40/60, 90/10 and dynamic split (DCCD). Some have front limited-slip diff, rear limited-slip, Torsen diff, etc. So, there are many differences between the different models and model years.

 

My other cars have been RWD for the most part, and I still love that layout for driving fun. But, I would always prefer AWD for my daily driver car that needs to be able to deal with all weather conditions.

[db4570]

Thanks for the replies. They confirm what I've always heard about Subarus. That they just tend to stick to the road better.

 

We're going to go look at them today. I'll let you know what we decide, and will probably be back here with more questions.

 

David

 

PS: What the heck is "hooning"? Sounds like fun, I think.

[laz]

I lived up north for many years and had Subaru’s for a while. I moved to South Florida almost 10 years ago and still have Subaru’s. You would think you would not need AWF here but when it rains it can be as bad as snow.

 

The day I swore I would always have a Subaru was when after a week of constant rain my house street, which was unpaved Sandy and a mile long, got flooded. Client g home I misjudged how much water there was and half way into it the water almost got passed half the door sills. At that moment the only thing I could do is go in reverse and head to the main road. The wheels spinner a bit but then they grabb d the sand and backwards I went. When I was finally back at the main road I was relieved that the car was AWD.

 

I love the AWD and the safety features that the Subaru has.

[MilesA]

PS: What the heck is "hooning"? Sounds like fun, I think.

That word originally comes from Australian slang. Hooning is something done by people called hoons. Hoons are basically hooligans, young guys who like to cut up with cars -- street racing, doing burnouts, donuts, speeding to ridiculous extremes, being a menace to society when behind the wheel.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

do you live somewhere where it snows a lot? or where intersections ice up a lot?

 

that's enough right there

[pjcampbell]

I live in VT, and wouldn't consider anything other than AWD and for me it's Subaru AWD. Many other AWD systems are 100% FWD normally, AWD when needed. Subaru is full time AWD (I believe it is 60 front/40 rear by default on newer CVT cars).

[Sparkey]

Subaru really has it nailed... "Confidence in motion". I feel very connected to the road and more confident because of it.

 

Sure you dont need it, but its really nice to have. I cant say I hear "Man I wish my Subaru wasnt AWD" very often. And when I do, its someone who wants to be the next ken block (Who made a mustang AWD).

 

It really depends on your driving style, habits, intents, as well as what you plan to do with the vehicle. My argument is you can change many characteristics of cars, regardless of drivetrain - but do you want to put the parts and work into making it do what you want, or do you want it to do what you want out of the box?

[Yoda_One]

The Op has left the station. He was just Trolling.

 

Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul![emoji2]

[Pilot1226]

Fish on >.<

[JF1GG29]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

 

It makes winter driving FUN.

[solidxsnake]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet:

 

It makes winter driving FUN.

 

 

If you're hooning around, then the AWD might make a difference.

 

[db4570]

The Op has left the station. He was just Trolling.

 

What a ridiculous thing to say. If I don't check in every day to laugh at peoples' jokes I'm a troll? Brother.

 

Took delivery on it yesterday, BTW. Great car. Can't wait to try it in the snow.

 

David

[Sparkey]

What a ridiculous thing to say. If I don't check in every day to laugh at peoples' jokes I'm a troll? Brother.

 

Took delivery on it yesterday, BTW. Great car. Can't wait to try it in the snow.

 

David

 

[Yoda_One]

Ok not everyday but month and half.

 

Laughing at Oneself and with Others is Good for the Soul [emoji847]

[jonnyt88]

: Lived most of my life here in northern NY,

 

Central NY here. I have drive on FWD w/snows, FWD with all-seasons, AWD with snows and AWD with all-seasons.

 

AWD + snow > FWD + Snows > AWD +A/S > FWD + A/S

 

I had no issues getting around with FWD + Snows, but I would be a bit conscious of the road conditions and what parking lots I drive into.

 

With a subie on snows, I wouldn't think twice about driving through an unplowed parking lot. Since getting the subie, I rarely shovel my driveway other than a path for the mailman. If I had something like forester/XV/outback ground clearance, I would never shovel

[Pilot1226]

I've never run snow tires. I've also never felt "out of control" with either my 09 Legacy or my 11 Outback. I've had OEMs on both for the original set, I think the Legacy had Yokohama A/S, and the Outback originally had Bridgestones? I eventually changed the Legacy out to Bridgestone Potenzas and my Outback has the ContiProContacts still. I have never felt out of control in either of these vehicles.

 

Perhaps it's because I drive "smartly" in bad weather, and I'm sure this has something to do with it. I'm not sure that any combination of AWD or tires will save you if you drive max+10 in snow/slush/ice and you're driving like a maniac a few inches behind the guy in front of you... I usually use the "5 second rule" for following distance, and I use that as an excuse to pop the OB into manual mode and just engine brake to slow down. It baffles me how some people wreck at the bottom of the hill on a dry day, let alone a wintery day.

 

I may consider running winters/All-Seasons for my new ride. I'd have to decide if I'd want a second set of rims, or if I'd want to let Costco mount them for $15 a tire twice a year. The new ones self-register TPMS, right? That was part of my reason for not changing out the rims.

[dgoodhue]

There plenty of tires tests that one can Google that show the stopping distances, but even going moderate speeds a good set of snow tires will stop in half the distance as A/S tires. Around in MA, only a minority of cars use snow tires so it give me a huge buffer to avoid accidents in the snow.

[Pilot1226]

Right, but it doesn't help you if the idiot behind you has bald all-seasons. You can really only just hope and pray they spin out before they get you?

[Sparkey]

I've never run snow tires. I've also never felt "out of control" with either my 09 Legacy or my 11 Outback. I've had OEMs on both for the original set, I think the Legacy had Yokohama A/S, and the Outback originally had Bridgestones? I eventually changed the Legacy out to Bridgestone Potenzas and my Outback has the ContiProContacts still. I have never felt out of control in either of these vehicles.

 

Perhaps it's because I drive "smartly" in bad weather, and I'm sure this has something to do with it. I'm not sure that any combination of AWD or tires will save you if you drive max+10 in snow/slush/ice and you're driving like a maniac a few inches behind the guy in front of you... I usually use the "5 second rule" for following distance, and I use that as an excuse to pop the OB into manual mode and just engine brake to slow down. It baffles me how some people wreck at the bottom of the hill on a dry day, let alone a wintery day.

 

I may consider running winters/All-Seasons for my new ride. I'd have to decide if I'd want a second set of rims, or if I'd want to let Costco mount them for $15 a tire twice a year. The new ones self-register TPMS, right? That was part of my reason for not changing out the rims.

 

Right, but it doesn't help you if the idiot behind you has bald all-seasons. You can really only just hope and pray they spin out before they get you?

 

You drive smartly? Hope it better then you talky.

 

No matter how good or safe you think you are, you've leaving a lot on the table with improper tires.

 

I believe most people just ignore the TPMS on the winter setup.