Buying a 4th Gen, Preferences/experiences?

[crisjp3]

Hello all! After having my 3rd Gen Legacy for a few years now I am thinking of getting a fourth gen wagon.

 

I plan on bringing my mechanic to whatever car I choose to see and am paying him for it so he doesn't hate me

 

My questions are what would you recommend? I've been looking at the 08 Outback XT but those are really hard to find. Aren't they basically the same car? I wouldn't mind an actual Legacy GT wagon but all I see is 05-07 models where I'm from.

 

And my last question is if I wanted to mod the car ie. add power. Is an automatic still something worth looking at?

 

I'm looking at this car as a daily driver but something to have fun in on occasion when I take a nice highway to the beach. Perhaps about STI power or a little less.

 

I know there was another thread regarding something of the same question but 2009's are almost unheard of here in CA from my experience.

[rougeben83]

Don't get an early production year (05-06) car. Just...don't. Having owned my 05 obxt for the past 2.5 years, its been no where as reliable as my old 03 legacy, and I bought that car with about the same mileage.

 

Mainly electrical and accesories (the damn BCM, poor paint leading to rust, interior trim peeling).

[Max Capacity]

Having read post #2, my 05 has 232,000 miles. Granted not much on it has that many miles. Subaru just replaced all the brake lines, for free.

 

Like he said the 08-09 OBXT with a 5mt is what you want, the 5eat is ok. But a stick car is much more fun.

 

The GT wagons were only made for one year, 2005. The 06-07 wagons are all 2.5i NA.

 

If you can find it the best is a 09 Spec B. Less then 150 of them were made.

 

FWIW, IMO the 08-09 Outback's are the best looking ones. I drive by one every day on my DD, its the coffee color one.

 

Read the sticky's at the tops of the forum's you'll learn a lot.

 

If you buy a turbo car, make sure you have about $4000 extra cash hanging around until you know it runs well.

 

Learn how to check the oil and keep it topped off, never let it get low.

 

These cars give great bang for the buck if you can find a good one. They just need oil changes and fluid changes.

 

They also do better when driven for long distance. I'd stay away from a low miles one that mom only drove to the store 2 miles away.

[freaksavior]

Don't get an early production year (05-06) car. Just...don't. Having owned my 05 obxt for the past 2.5 years, its been no where as reliable as my old 03 legacy, and I bought that car with about the same mileage.

 

Mainly electrical and accesories (the damn BCM, poor paint leading to rust, interior trim peeling).

 

That's kinda funny to say when http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/best-legacy-gt-yeari-89478.html has the most votes on 05.

[henhead]

That's kinda funny to say when http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/best-legacy-gt-yeari-89478.html has the most votes on 05.

I think we can chalk that up to it being the only year of the manual GT wagons.

[Gex]

GT wagons were made in 06-07 they are all just automatics. 05 was the only year for the manual GT wagon. They are great cars when cared for properly. If abused they are expensive headaches. If you find one and it passes a compression and leak down test you will probably be just fine for many miles of happy motoring.

[Holla]

It's more about finding one that's in good condition and well cared for than a specific year IMO. An 08-09 OBXT would be ideal but if you find a good condition 05' LGT wagon I wouldn't pass on it simply because it's an 05'.

 

I'm not sure specifically what rogueben83 is referring to with the 05's but I feel mine is in good condition for having 150k on it. Granted I'm on motor #2 but the interior, paint and electronics are good for a 12 year old Subaru.

[crisjp3]

is the 5Eat transmission reliable? My current Gt is Manual and I love driving her when its not in the city... I'm quite used to it so it shouldn't be a problem. I was just wondering how well does the 5eat shift.

 

Also Concerning mods, how much would I be looking to spend getting to STI power at least, and I really am not a fan of Cobb Accessport. I like my interior to be as wire free as possible.

[freaksavior]

is the 5Eat transmission reliable? My current Gt is Manual and I love driving her when its not in the city... I'm quite used to it so it shouldn't be a problem. I was just wondering how well does the 5eat shift.

 

Also Concerning mods, how much would I be looking to spend getting to STI power at least, and I really am not a fan of Cobb Accessport. I like my interior to be as wire free as possible.

 

Mine is holding up fine so far. When it was running well it was probably making 270-280whp and probably around 300wtq

 

mod list http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5520950&postcount=3

 

mtbwrench just blew up his center diff making a little more power

http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=2003

[magnusonsubie]

The GT wagons were only made for one year, 2005. The 06-07 wagons are all 2.5i NA.

 

Like Gex said above 06-07 GT wagons exist just all 5eat.

 

I absolutely love my wagon. I bought it almost 3 years ago with 50k miles on it completely stock. I've since gone to a VF52 with stock injectors and its pretty perfect. If you aren't in the city a lot I would suggest getting a 5MT over the 5EAT seeing as you have a manual already I think you'd enjoy it more.

[ttnio]

Filbert St. was a blast on my 5eat...

 

Just like duck soup...hehehe,

[Laquel]

Hi, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your thread. I've been looking at a JDM Legacy GT 2.0 2004 AT Wagon that's been driven 114000km. Recently imported from Japan to Finland. Here's the ad if you want, description in Finnish: http://www.nettiauto.com/en/subaru/legacy/8228925

 

To my questions:

What should I check/ask about when bying?

Banjo bolt filter --> is it removed?

How frequently has the oil been changed. Should be every 5000km?

Timing belt change at ~160000km, right?

 

By the way, I've got the impression that the 5EAT is pretty reliable. Is that right or are expensive services typical?

 

Thanks in advance!

[JustCallMeNick]

Really try hard to find a spec B for the 6mt. Also, as the former owner of a 2002 Legacy GT, I need to warn you that the fourth generation Legacies don't handle like the third generation in corners. It sort of feels like driving a little boat or something but there is a lot of body roll. It feels more like driving an Outback imho. It's very comfortable and nice but also does not feel sporty.

 

Look for dried/cracked control arm bushings, head gasket leaks, transmission (bearing) noise.

[The 2Fiver]

All the MT guys don't want him to switch over haha. The 5EAT is OK as mentioned already. You would think it sucks coming from a manual GT. It's a special gearbox that requires some driver learning. It's smooth sailing once you've worked out all of it's quirks.

[crisjp3]

@wetmyson in regards to cornering, are there ways to mitigate the body roll for the 4th gen? What suspension mods would you add or have added? And did the 3rd gen have Less body roll than the 4th?

 

@the2fiver thanks! I'm still on the lookout.

 

I appreciate everyones feedback.

[Gex]

In my opinion having driven several examples of both, a 3rd gen 2.5gt does not out perform a 4th gen in the corners. It might have been because the 4th gen carried more speed but the third and fourth gen are light years apart in terms of performance.

 

That said, in stock form the 4th gens handle like shopping carts. Upgraded sway bars, endlinks, struts/springs, and some poly bushings make them handle much much better.

[JustCallMeNick]

I'm apprehensive about touching the sway bars on my 4th gen because when I had my 3rd gen I had an aftermarket swaybar and the bushings were always slipping out. The techs whined about it every time I took it into a shop. LOLOLOL

[snm95ls]

Some interesting viewpoints in here.

 

I can only speak from my own experiences, but so far my '06 Spec B has been incredibly solid. I do have a very mechanical background, so tackling things that may seem like a big deal to others doesn't phase me one bit.

 

The only thing I have had to do was replace the turbine housing on the original VF40 turbo because of wastegate flapper bushing walk which led to sluggish then low boost.

 

It handle very well for a 3600 ish pound car with lots of amenities. I cannot complain.

[quick4dr]

My 05 was built late 04, currently 127k shes been good to me. normal maintenance. 2 stock cracked radiators, both rear wheel bearings, pass front bearing, drive shaft failure, stock radio died- converted to JDM, stock suspension came out clean for coils. stock vf40 was still strong when she came off at 80k or so, bnr16g got 40k before oil seals went. now 1.5xtr strong for 7k

 

 

its all about being attentive, doing maintenance, and inspecting everything regularly!!

[aac0036]

Of the comparisons listed here I have only owned (still do) and driven an 07 2.5i 5MT. I find it hard to believe a 3G could handle better than a 4G... body roll does not equal handling. But as I said I haven't driven one. For perspective the 4G was made to aim upmarket at the Audi A4 crowd.

 

The 4G has a phenomenal chassis and when pushed the car feels alive. As far as the suspension it comes from the factory underdamped, meaning the shocks can give a little float on the highway. Easily remedied with Koni yellow sport shocks. I had paired H&R springs with them but they took away from the car's good ride/handling balance. You don't need a hard ride to have good handling. The 4G's chassis went on to share a lot with the 09+ WRXs and I believe current Impreza. My only suspension mods are Konis and Group N lower control arm bushings (which are still rubber, but harder.) I'm very happy with the car's handling.

 

My 2.5i has been what I expected it to be so far, well made, good looking, good handling, and characterful. I knew it would have wheel bearing issues and head gaskets before I went into it, and 5 years later I've replaced 2 wheel bearings and head gaskets (although I replaced them ver prematurely at 80k at the very first sign of leaking.) nothing else yet and about to hit 100k.

 

Opinions will always differ, drive all of them and decide for yourself. FYI If you're looking at wagons the 4G Outbacks have a rear limited slip differential

 

 

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[aac0036]

Things I dislike: see-through paint, manual trans is a bit clunky. That's all really.

 

I don't have any experience with the 5EAT, but all 2.5i Legos and OBs have a 4EAT. My mothers Fozzy LL Bean has this same unit and it is robust and quick shifting. But autos accelerate like a dog on a rug and are horrid in general, so you should obviously keep the manual!

 

 

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[Max Capacity]

Having come back to this thread and reading it, I don't know why I said the GT wagon's were only made for one year. I know the 06-07's had 5eats...but they are not important to me any way's.

[Rhitter]

I'm apprehensive about touching the sway bars on my 4th gen because when I had my 3rd gen I had an aftermarket swaybar and the bushings were always slipping out. The techs whined about it every time I took it into a shop. LOLOLOL

 

I don't understand what was happening? Bushings were slipping out?

 

I upgraded my FSB / RSB on my Outback (same as the ones you would put on the Legacy).

Still OEM endlinks on the rear - no bushings have ever slipped out.

On the front I have Kartboy endlinks - due to their design the bushings could slip out, but only if the bolts loosen.

 

@ OP

Koni inserts or Bilstein Shocks + performance springs makes the car feel alive. Stock leaves something to be desired.

[The 2Fiver]

Having come back to this thread and reading it, I don't know why I said the GT wagon's were only made for one year. I know the 06-07's had 5eats...but they are not important to me any way's.

 

Oh I think they have some importance for ya ; )

 

I can only imagine how "horrid in general" a 2.5i 4EAT would be.

[JustCallMeNick]

@wetmyson in regards to cornering, are there ways to mitigate the body roll for the 4th gen? What suspension mods would you add or have added? And did the 3rd gen have Less body roll than the 4th?

 

@the2fiver thanks! I'm still on the lookout.

 

I appreciate everyones feedback.

 

I'm no expert - I can only speak from personal experience. My personal experience is:

 

I had a 2002 Legacy GT with a 5MT for about 5-6 years and loved it except for getting smoked by minivans and priuses everyday. It had REALLY saggy, ancient OEM suspension but it felt GREAT in the corners and it was much easier to shift in that thing too.

 

My 2009 hates shifting so sometimes it's hard to throw it into the next lower gear. I'm not sure that's other people's experiences although I have read a lot of cases of that and people installing some kind of "blast shield" something or other to help with this. The 5EAT is actually a fitting transmission for the fourth gen because it's more of a Lincoln Town Car than a BMW M3 if that makes sense.

 

Entry level (reliability/quality) coilovers are $900+. There's other things you can do - various bushings, chassis braces and such. I don't know which are worth doing and which aren't.

 

I just bought some coilovers and haven't installed them yet so I have my fingers crossed that the car will feel better to drive after that.

 

Here's a sketch I whipped up for you. It diagrams the shift pattern of the 5MT in my car. Notice that there is an extra gear you have to stop at (1.5) between first and second gear. You'll also notice that third gear and Reverse are not connected and therefore are a near impossible achievement, like attaining enlightenment.