Ashtone Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 So I bought this '05 LGT Wagon in September '15, and it came with a 3-row Mishimoto radiator (almost an inch thicker than stock) and red silicon hoses. The seller (forum member H2Oman) had put it in after the stock rad failed. Pictured below is what I discovered totally by accident on August 10th. I was cleaning up the engine bay when I noticed the dust you see on the hose and the engine cover. Obviously, the fan had hit the hose. You can just see the damaged area. I am very thankful to have dodged that bullet! I had planned to leave for Santa Fe the next day; 5 hours away. I doubt I would have made it. So I called Heuberger Subaru here in Colorado Springs to make an appointment, and couldn't get in for two weeks! (Subsequently heard they are building a new service facility to handle this constant backlog). Since I have a second car, this was only an irritation, not a problem, and I made my trip. Two weeks later I drop the LGT off, and showed the service manager (Randy Harrison) how close the fan and hose were because of the thicker Mishimoto radiator. Chris (apparently the go-to tech for modded cars) took a look at it and felt it was a common enough issue, and they'd be able to get it fixed. Estimate: $300.00 ( including an oil change). Great! Do it! And off I go...only to be called later by the service consultant (Trey Lujan), who informed me that they were having problems making it work, and my new estimate was $420. Okay...just do it please. The next call from Trey was to say it was not possible to fix unless they changed back to the OEM Subaru radiator. I waited two weeks, the initial estimate was $300.00, I approved an increase to $420.00, and now... No. I don't want the OEM plastic radiator. Just put it back together an I'll put it back in the garage until I figure it out. So here's my point for the post: Trey called back to say the only thing I was going to be charged for was my oil change! They put everything back to the way it was, and ate the labor and the cost of the two hoses they had cut up in the process. I was expecting a huge conflict, and I was really surprised, relieved and happy that they did what I felt was the right thing. I've had so many crappy experiences at dealerships in my 47 years of driving, and became a do it yourself kind of guy because of those experiences. These guys have won a dedicated customer by the way they handled this, and I want to post a positive dealer interaction when it happens. Heuberger is active on this forum, and they have an eBay store as well. Props to Chris, Trey, Randy and Hueberger's management for putting ethics in their business plan! This made me feel better about the world in general until someone started talking about the election... UPDATE Jan 2017 The fix was a Koyo aluminum radiator (VH2778) and OEM hoses. It was not possible to trim either the OEM hoses (or new Mishimoto silicone hoses) to work with the oversized Mishimoto radiator. Many people have posted "just trim the hoses". Well, in this case it was not the answer. With only about 1/8" clearance between the fan in front and tha pulley behind, I just wasn't comfortable with that margin for expansion. The OEM Subaru hoses had to be trimmed to fit as part of the installation, even though the Koyo radiator is OEM size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX USA Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 That's a known issue with Subaru's and (aftermarket) aluminum radiators. You need to shorten/trim the upper radiator hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtone Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 As soon as I discovered the cooling fan had cut my pretty red Moshimoto hose, I went here to see what kind of solutions my fellow forum members had posted. Nothing except the mention of the fact that it could happen with a thicker radiator. I tried all kinds of search terms: Mishimoto, radiator, cut, hose, etc with nothing specific coming back at me. Google and Bing did no better. So here's what I am doing: Koto part number VH2778. Specs show 36mm deep, and claim OEM fitment. They specifically mention the space issues bigger radiators can cause. The Koyo is almost 3/4" thinner than the mishimoto in my car. That should be more than enough to leave clearance for hose expansion. Looks to be a well made product. We'll see. And I'm going back to OEM hoses. Hopefully, if someone else tries to find a solution for this problem, they'll find this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 It's not so much the radiator or the hose, it's just a sloppy install that wasn't adjusted by cutting off a little of the engine side end of the radiator hose to shorten it and move it away from the fans when installing. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I installed those hoses (except in black) on my KoyoRad. Which has the same thick core as the Mishimoto. Same issues, hoses need to be trimmed. I did this when I installed the hoses. No issues in 2+ years. I had to trim the upper and lower hoses a little to get the fitment I was happy with. I am really surprised they weren't able to get it to fit. I am a know-nothing DIYer and I was able to easily get the hoses to fit with my thicker radiator. I wish I could go around charging people $300 to trim a hose.... IMO stick with a thicker core and trim the hoses. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yep my stock hoses from the auto parts store work great when trimmed correctly. I still have a $10. spare top hose hanging in the shed. Love knowing I have more coolant in the system. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdzowner Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 i have the mishi x line for the wrx in my 07 lgt. i just made sure the hoses were cut to the proper size. i have custom samco hoses. no issues with clearance. like the above poster said, its the hose not the radiator. glad they did the right think for you though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Well I'll admit, I just checked my top hose, I had to adjust the angle and give a slight twist to raise the hose up so the fan clears. That hose has been there almost 2 years now. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I got these hoses for my build to match my silicone hose group buy and was told to trim them by Infamous as sated above. Try that and save the money from buying a new radiator unless that's what your heart is set on. I'm sure someone here will gladly take the old radiator off your hands. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujo Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I too had contact with a Samco hose and a Koyo radiator. Fix is as seen above. Trim hose. Although, I will admit that filling the coolant system properly can be a bit of a challenge, though not for the guys that work on 'em every day. At any rate, still pretty surprised they couldn't get that done. Nice that they made it right(ish), but the fix is pretty straightforward. Find yourself a nice local Subaru specialist and leave the stealership to the recalls. Truly. You will be better served by a good small businessman that knows what he's doing. I can tell you the one near me, but you might have to search a bit or ask on here to find one near you. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtone Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 This is a shot showing the fan blade just barely visible between the hose and shroud on the left, right where the contact debris is visible on the side of the hose. On the right side, you can see how close the power steering pump (I think) is to the hose. There's less than 1/8" clearance on either side. That's just not going to work for me. I don't want to have this happen again. So a thinner rad is in order, IMHO. I need more clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 What about just getting a low profile fan for that side? Or two maybe, but you'd probably need just the 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Why not just get a $10.00 hose from the auto parts store and trim that and put it on. You don't need those fancy hoses. You can trim a couple off the shelf hoses until you get it right and still spend less money 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon22 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 +1 For max you just need to trim the hoses don't waste your money for a new less effective radiator. I just did an install for a mishimoto radiator recently I had to take off a good amount on these hoses http://www.fastwrx.com/collections/cooling-system/products/fuku-works-radiator-hoses-2008-2014-wrx-sti to get them to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Why not just get a $10.00 hose from the auto parts store and trim that and put it on. You don't need those fancy hoses. You can trim a couple off the shelf hoses until you get it right and still spend less money You might not need fancy hoses...but I do My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Ive been running the Mishimoto x-line and silicone hoses since 2009 without issue. You need to trim a little off of both ends of the upper hose to eliminate the contact with the fan. The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtone Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 What about just getting a low profile fan for that side? Or two maybe, but you'd probably need just the 1? That was my first solution, but I didn't like the way the fan attached to the radiator with a type of zip tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 You might not need fancy hoses...but I do Oh yea I understand some people are in to that kind of thing...not that's there's anything wrong with that... To me, it's about what will make the car faster. Those hoses don't add HP. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 but they look better, and looks are definitely a thing to some people. I could suck start a snow blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMonaLisa Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I have the aluminum Koyo radiator and Samco rad hoses in my 2006. Everything fits like a glove, no trimming of hoses, everything perfect. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtone Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Ive been running the Mishimoto x-line and silicone hoses since 2009 without issue. You need to trim a little off of both ends of the upper hose to eliminate the contact with the fan. Thanks for the reply, underdog. How's Polly Purebred? As I mentioned, I purchased the car this way, and without looking through the paperwork, I'd say it's been running fine for maybe two years and 15K. Then, for some reason, the Mishimoto hose expands into the fan, and there's no room for the expansion. I know the hoses need careful trimming to fit these thicker radiators, but that's not my problem. If you look at these pictures, you can see there is very little clearance front or back. Spinning fan in front; spinning pulley in back. Clearance is the problem. I looked at slimmer fans (don't like the zip tie mounting method), and bendable hoses I could shape to miss the fan (no room for that, either). The techs at Hueberger gave it a shot, and with the expansion factor when up to temp, they said it wouldn't work. And by "won't work", I know they meant that they couldn't guarantee the job. If they could have made it work, I'm sure they'd have found a way. It's their job to take my money. So while I know these big radiators add coolant volume to the system, I don't think that alone is worth the headache. With the standard volume of coolant and a quality all aluminum radiator, I don't think I will notice any difference. I don't drive around on boost all the time. I get on it when it's prudent, and I would say I enjoy "spirited" driving. But I don't have a modded motor or headers adding extra heat. Even though the plastic tanked OEM rad will crap out over time (just like most modern radiators), IMO it doesn't overheat because it is inefficient or under-designed for normal driving. In my experience, overheating comes from a cooling system failure, or making more horsepower (= more heat from bigger turbos, un-insulated headers, etc) and demanding too much from your stock cooling system with a modded engine. So, yeah, Subaru made some questionable choices in the design of this engine (filters in the turbo oil feed, catted up pipes) but I don't think cooling system volume is one of them. But I guess I'll find out, cuz this big ass space cramping radiator is coming out. Fan blade clearance top pic Pulley bolt clearance below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtone Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 It's not so much the radiator or the hose, it's just a sloppy install that wasn't adjusted by cutting off a little of the engine side end of the radiator hose to shorten it and move it away from the fans when installing. Wrong, gteaser. Install was not "sloppy". Hoses were trimmed properly to fit in the reduced space between fan and pulley, and it worked fine for two years. No room for hose expansion = failure. The problem is reduced space and no clearance for hose expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Mishimoto hose clearance with fan. Radiator is KoyoRad HyperV (I thought silicon didn't expand like the OEM ones?) http://i.imgur.com/S1U44fN.jpg To rear pulley http://i.imgur.com/jIQMQCl.jpg My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 but they look better, and looks are definitely a thing to some people. I got the whole 3 package kit from IP&T so the coolant hoses would look funny OEM like. Looks like I took a shortcut on my build in more than one place. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Good thing I was thinking about getting that radiator I did not know it was much thicker.. when you guys say trim are you talking from the ends of the hose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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